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  1. #1
    Incredible Member Harbinger19's Avatar
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    Default First Age Gank Squad vs Helm’s Deep

    Under the influence of an especially strong barrel of Longbottom Leaf, Saruman decides to reexamine his campaign against Rohan. He elects to sacrifice his army of Uruk-hai & Dunlendings & the Palantir for a one-time space-time warp.

    In exchange he gets the following team.

    Feanor & his 7 sons
    Fingolfin
    Finrod Felagund
    Beleg Strongbow
    Ecthelion of the Fountain
    Mablung of the Heavy Hand


    & a couple of Elf-friends

    Hurin Thalion
    Beren Erchamion
    Turin Turambar


    Total of 16 First Age warriors.

    Equipment: Turin gets Gurthang, Beleg gets Anguirel its twin, along with their usual set-ups. Everyone else gets their standard war gear. They are provided with horses and appropriate supplies.

    Scenario: The Gank Squad teleports into Rohan 10 miles from Helm’s Deep. Grima Wormtongue briefs them on the operation. Rohirrim scouts spot them as they ‘port in and start riding back to the Deep to tell what they see. No interference from Treebeard or the Ents. Gandalf can run messenger but isn’t allowed to fight until one side is victorious. Once the squad gets within 1 mile of the fortress a barrier seals everyone inside until battle’s end.

    Gank Squad victory is achieved by taking control of the Hornburg & loudly blowing said horn. Rohirrim victory is achieved killing every last member of the squad.

    How does this go?

    EDIT: If Gank Squad wins they’re told Eru will shower then with their hearts’ desires. This is to make Feanor actually be a team player instead of betraying Saruman or threatening to stab Fingolfin or any of the other things he’d likely do in-character.
    Last edited by Harbinger19; 09-16-2020 at 10:09 PM.
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  2. #2
    Voice of the Authorities Cleric of Hell’s Brigade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harbinger19 View Post
    Under the influence of an especially strong barrel of Longbottom Leaf, Saruman decides to reexamine his campaign against Rohan. He elects to sacrifice his army of Uruk-hai & Dunlendings & the Palantir for a one-time space-time warp.

    In exchange he gets the following team.

    Feanor & his 7 sons
    Fingolfin
    Finrod Felagund
    Beleg Strongbow
    Ecthelion of the Fountain
    Mablung of the Heavy Hand


    & a couple of Elf-friends

    Hurin Thalion
    Beren Erchamion
    Turin Turambar


    Total of 16 First Age warriors.

    Equipment: Turin gets Gurthang, Beleg gets Anguirel its twin, along with their usual set-ups. Everyone else gets their standard war gear. They are provided with horses and appropriate supplies.

    Scenario: The Gank Squad teleports into Rohan 10 miles from Helm’s Deep. Grima Wormtongue briefs them on the operation. Rohirrim scouts spot them as they ‘port in and start riding back to the Deep to tell what they see. No interference from Treebeard or the Ents. Gandalf can run messenger but isn’t allowed to fight until one side is victorious. Once the squad gets within 1 mile of the fortress a barrier seals everyone inside until battle’s end.

    Gank Squad victory is achieved by taking control of the Hornburg & loudly blowing said horn. Rohirrim victory is achieved killing every last member of the squad.

    How does this go?

    EDIT: If Gank Squad wins they’re told Eru will shower then with their hearts’ desires. This is to make Feanor actually be a team player instead of betraying Saruman or threatening to stab Fingolfin or any of the other things he’d likely do in-character.
    I mean....it is only 16 people vs a fortified position and, IIRC, about 2,000 people.

    But at the same time that’s...a lot of Tolkien muscle there.

    I mean, a hail of arrows is pretty nice about now. Just kind of glad Eärendil the Mariner and his magical mystical flying Swan of Death isn’t there.
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  3. #3
    The Tentacle God Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh's Avatar
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    Sharp may need to confirm, but I don't see Helm's Deep surviving this.
    Yeah, but if you... man, we're getting into weird analogy territory, like if you disintegrated Superman's arms he wouldn't be able to go "fool! Little did you know that my arms and I are one and can be remade from me!" and will his arms back into being from pure nothingness. - Pendaran

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  4. #4
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    I mean, a hail of arrows is pretty nice about now.
    I feel like if Fingolfin can leap around the exploding impact craters (this is not the exaggeration you think it is) Morgoth was making in the ground during their fight, he's going to be a difficult mofo to manage to target with arrows. Yes, there can be a lot of arrows, but if they're basically landing in places he no longer is, that kinda doesn't matter.

    Also as I ponder his punching on the gates of Angband to call Morgoth out and what that did, I kiiiiiinda feel like he might be able to just punch his way inside.

    At that point most everyone is dead and or fleeing from terror aura.

  5. #5
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Yeah, the advantage is to the Gank Squad because they are all high level, high power warriors with a lot of composure. Helm's Deep had a big old issue of morale in the original circumstance and being owned by a squad of 16 would make that morale more likely to shift. Once it breaks, it's a bit of academic matter.

    I mean, what's Helm's Deep's strategy here? Siege defence strategy hinges on limiting the access points your enemies have and whittling them down as they try and get in. Given that there's 16 people who are, to my knowledge, effectively a death sentence for anyone present who enters their range barring Gimli, Legolas or Aragorn and they have a dude who might just be able to batter down the walls or doors with his fists, this means the normal strategy is very not good.

    Yeah, this has the potential to go South for Helm's Deep here, very quickly.

    Heck, are there any epic level archers in the Gank Squad? Like, if they sit outside of conventional range just start sniping people off the castle walls with ease, that's going to suck for morale.
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  6. #6
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Oh, I mean Fingolfin actually radiates supernatural terror from his sheer force of personality, not something ludicrous like 'logical conventional issues of morale'.

  7. #7
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    Oh, I mean Fingolfin actually radiates supernatural terror from his sheer force of personality, not something ludicrous like 'logical conventional issues of morale'.
    Well, that's going to compound with the pre-existing issues of morale already at Helms Deep in a very unfortunate way.

    This is like the Witch King of Angmar at Minas Tirith but there's no friendly ghost squad to inspire you past the fear.

    Looking like Gank Squad take it.
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  8. #8
    Incredible Member Harbinger19's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post

    Heck, are there any epic level archers in the Gank Squad? Like, if they sit outside of conventional range just start sniping people off the castle walls with ease, that's going to suck for morale.
    Beleg Strongbow is arguably Legolas on steroids by presentation; he’s explicitly noted to be numero uno in warfare in Doriath, which is like Lothlorien on steroids, Lothlorien being the place that gave Legolas a bow with which he shot down a Nazgul.

    Beleg once stealthed his way into the camp of “a great company of Orcs,” which from what I gather is probably like 200ish in number.* He shot all of their wolf-sentinels silently and hauled Turin out undetected.

    * I read a company is typically in the 80-250 unit range, so I’m guessing a “great company” is closer to 200 then 80.
    "What I sought, I could not obtain."

    "This is a meaningless battle. We are two madmen engaging in senseless folley."

    "I will kill, I will let live..."

    --Genuine Fake Priest Kotomine Kirei

  9. #9
    The Tentacle God Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh's Avatar
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    I'd forgotten how strong Fingolfin was, lol.
    Yeah, but if you... man, we're getting into weird analogy territory, like if you disintegrated Superman's arms he wouldn't be able to go "fool! Little did you know that my arms and I are one and can be remade from me!" and will his arms back into being from pure nothingness. - Pendaran

    Arxiros "Arx" Inosaan | Inanna

  10. #10
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh View Post
    Sharp may need to confirm, but I don't see Helm's Deep surviving this.
    You didn't need me to confirm, but I like writing stuff about Silmarillion, so....

    Okay, it's an absolute stomp.

    Beleg, Túrin and Beren (whose feats for 'stealthy guerrilla warrior' eclipse pretty much everyone else in Tolkien's writings, including Túrin and Beleg - Beren is basically who Aragorn wants to be when he grows up) move closer first and take out the various sentries and watchers, or at least some of them, via bow and (in Túrin and Beren's case) stealthing their way up to the ramparts and quietly murdering all kinds of people. If a fight then breaks out, so what? Beren and Túrin are already on top of the walls and dropping people as fast as they come (Túrin having the Deathiron, a sword that basically 'cuts anything' the Rohirrim have - swords, shields, armor, bodies - certainly doesn't help the Rohirrim).

    Edit: Crap, did not see that Beleg gets Anguirel. Okay, so we have an even worse situation for anyone who tries to shut down this beachead.

    At this point, the others cannot distract/hold back Fëanor any more (I was going to say 'Loony-boy loses his patience', but that implies he had some to start with), and he and his sons start a run for Helm's Deep. Everyone else kind of shrugs and follows. If Fingolfin has managed to work himself up into a truly appalling rage, it means the people facing them on the battlements lose control of their bladders and that will do nothing good for their accuracy with arrows. Especially loosing at a spread-out band of horsemen. And if not, again, what of it? These guys are top-end First Age superhuman fighters, kitted out in top-end equipment, and have wandered through arrow-storms before in their stories. And the Rohirrim aren't exactly legendary archers. I suspect the majority of the Silmarillion group get to Helm's Deep, aaaaand...that's all it takes (especially with their 'advance group' opening the gates or dropping ropes for them, or something along those lines EDIT - sure, why not, alternately Fingolfin finds a weak area of the gates or wall - the culvert, perhaps - and kicks it in).

    As a group, six of Fëanor's sons have driven off somewhere between 4-7 Balrogs, themselves. Ecthelion managed to pull a tie against Gothmog. Húrin killed 70-odd armored TROLLS with a melting axe (and countless orcs), when he was basically solo against an army, and Húrin is the greatest human warrior, not 'The Greatest Warrior' period. Finrod duels with Sauron through magical songs and - naked, dehydrated, and starved - breaks out of iron chains to kill a werewolf, presumably with his own teeth. Mablung is the WIMP of the group, and he piled up armored Dwarves before they took him down, at a time when Dwarven armor was basically plate and chain made of what Third-Age people would consider 'magically tough materials'.

    Fëanor? Fingolfin? On top of that? Arguably the two of them make the rest of the group unnecessary.

    This group is up against something they would consider 'rabble' - THIRD age humans (so, waaaay beneath everyone here), crudely armed and armored.

    I would argue that they'll basically kill everyone in Helm's Deep, but they don't need to do that. They just need to slaughter their way to the Hornburg, control it, and blow the horn. Done.
    Last edited by Sharpandpointies; 09-23-2020 at 07:13 AM. Reason: Spelling
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    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  11. #11
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Alternately Possibility I: Gandalf does what he's allowed to do (plays messenger) and hurries over to tell them the truth.

    [Fingolfin] Olórin? You've...changed. But I find what you say disturbing.

    [Fëanor] Hang on. Why are we believing him? I know Curumo from waaay back.

    And the arguing starts (potentially spilling over into 'Have you noticed the world has curvature now?'). Noldor can argue FOR-EH-VAR; I forsee Beren taking a nap while Húrin and Túrin impatiently pace, hours passing while the defenders peer nervously over the battlements, and the whole thing falling through because the fight never starts and they drag Gandalf back to Saruman to work this out.

    Alternate Possibility II: Beleg sees the scouts, shoots them dead, and things go REALLY poorly for the Rohirrim that much quicker.
    Last edited by Sharpandpointies; 09-23-2020 at 07:10 AM.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  12. #12
    The Tentacle God Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh's Avatar
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    See, this is what I was hoping for.

    You've now filled my brain with a possible scenario that ends with Gandalf and the Rohirrim charging down the slope only for the horses that survive Fingolfin's fear aura to get decked over the top of the battlements.

    "Quick flights done cheap."- Fingolfin Air
    Yeah, but if you... man, we're getting into weird analogy territory, like if you disintegrated Superman's arms he wouldn't be able to go "fool! Little did you know that my arms and I are one and can be remade from me!" and will his arms back into being from pure nothingness. - Pendaran

    Arxiros "Arx" Inosaan | Inanna

  13. #13
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh View Post
    See, this is what I was hoping for.

    You've now filled my brain with a possible scenario that ends with Gandalf and the Rohirrim charging down the slope only for the horses that survive Fingolfin's fear aura to get decked over the top of the battlements.

    "Quick flights done cheap."- Fingolfin Air
    ^_^ Fingolfin Air in competition with Vingilot Tours.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  14. #14
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    ...I'm a little sad that Beren doesn't get anything special for gear, but then he really doesn't need it. ^_^
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  15. #15
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Tempted to make a thread for the gank squad...

    Would need to figure out some fun scenarios or matchups...
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