X-men / x-universe canon / fanon think tank

[GMikey]

HonesToy I think she's overthinking the power grids. It only needs minimal info

Well... she's talked about that, and said to everyone that we'd start over somewhat from scratch. Soon, she'll have the reformed versions of u and Phoenix's grids (she liekd those designs most) and post these with basics, and we'd go from there

Yes, it has been a busy and crazy week!

I think it is something of an honor that the chief writer liked our designs best and will be taking our ideas to create a new and unique grid for this project. We can then work off that and modify it, if needed. Marvel's grids certainly needed some improvements!

This only got stupid cuz of how everyone started bringing things in, that complicated the idea, rather than just updating it, and fucking keeping it simple.

She said she's going back to reshape those grids and post them soon. I thought it'd be today but, doesn't matter.

She did share one thing Eric suggested and that is to call "overall rank", "Class Level". I thought that was a good idea, so... we'll see that term used, with the reimagined vers of the proposed grids

[From The Shadows]

My fanon is that that whole issue with Wolverine being chased around the lawn by one Kurt Wagner and telling him he's going to hell was one of Logans nightmares because of his guilt and it didn't wreck the most bro moment ever in the Brood Saga, with the exception of the piano, that was great. Either that was an out and out retcon or that was someone not knowing their Canon.

ETA: And someone even wrote a fic with my idea.

[GMikey]

My two penneth on Nightcrawler.
Religious Kurt is the least interesting Kurt, mostly because US writers have absolutely no clue how a Europe Catholic, raised in post Nazi Germany by Romani circus people would behave.
The scars from the films are an absolute anathema to me as Kurt’s whole raison d'être is accepting who you are, no matter what you might look like. He is the metaphor for mutant suffering and abuse made flesh but rises above it to be a kind, compassionate and witty person.
In general his fans like swashbuckling, charming Kurt way mire than angsty brooding Kurt.
He is a superb foil for the dangerous, hard characters like Wolverine but he’s also a sympathetic ally for the kinder end of the spectrum such as Jean.

WELCOME!

I assume you've read a bit of this thread lol Basically, this is a pre... whatever thread, for X-Fans to brainstorm about ideas they'd like to see for a fan collab animated series! Just to give a tinsy bit of history on this project, it was initially created to be somewhat a family friendly, cutesy show about our Marvel heroes as kids, still with fans being able to submit plot ideas for the narrative... then late 2019... COPPA HAPPENED. That changed everything. So... the original narrative, script and planned arcs were ALL scrapped, and under went a lot of change. The show now is set to be way more mature in theme, not nearly as vulgar as South Park, but its gonna start off with our heroes as kids (cuz it'll take forever to redraw them) and later, we'll let them grow up during a time skip. So... plenty of suggestive themes, violence and perilous things in it now. This is so you can better envision plot ideas, with what we're working with atm

ALL that out the way, now to your points!

Those are very interesting points on Kurt's history that I know for certain our writers... don't know in depth.

Kurt's history in our "main timeline" (cuz yes, we have a multiverse too) has a very different twist to his backstory, but its supposed to bridge several elements from his canon to his narrative here. It was suggested for Kurt to be a bit reclusive when first joining the X-Men (due to escaping abuse), and others like Jean (who helps a lot with rehabilitating several members) helps Kurt warm up. Later, a religious person would gift him his first Bible, which helps put him on his track.

As of now, he would start off the quiet, very shy one who fears reaching out and being rejected. But finding a new family with the X-Men, he warms up a lot, and everyone treats him like their little brother. He does serve as a foil to the more hardened of the group (like Logan and John Proudstar), but is very kindhearted and finds himself there for others when down.

Whatever you'd like to brainstorm and suggest, definitely do so! Late November, this is supposed to launch, with the first short coming Dec, and the teaser trailer for New Years

[GMikey]

My fanon is that that whole issue with Wolverine being chased around the lawn by one Kurt Wagner and telling him he's going to hell was one of Logans nightmares because of his guilt and it didn't wreck the most bro moment ever in the Brood Saga, with the exception of the piano, that was great. Either that was an out and out retcon or that was someone not knowing their Canon.

LOL that'd be something we could definitely bring in, that'd make a hilarious visual. The Bamfs appear in this so... the nightmare could evolve one bad day, and Logan sees Kurt with all his Bamfs chasing him around LOLOLOLOL

Each and every creation IS fully credited btw.

If you're a Kurt fan, PLS join the convo! The real annoncing of the fan collab animated project, comes late Nov, and the first upload comes Dec 2020

At that time, it'll be public, and everyone would know more about the plot and all to brainstorm and contribute to the narrative.

[From The Shadows]

My two penneth on Nightcrawler.
Religious Kurt is the least interesting Kurt, mostly because US writers have absolutely no clue how a Europe Catholic, raised in post Nazi Germany by Romani circus people would behave.
The scars from the films are an absolute anathema to me as Kurt’s whole raison d'être is accepting who you are, no matter what you might look like. He is the metaphor for mutant suffering and abuse made flesh but rises above it to be a kind, compassionate and witty person.
In general his fans like swashbuckling, charming Kurt way mire than angsty brooding Kurt.
He is a superb foil for the dangerous, hard characters like Wolverine but he’s also a sympathetic ally for the kinder end of the spectrum such as Jean.

I hope this doesn't ruffle any feathers but I felt the same way about the US liberal Catholic/or insert religion in being some kind of unicorn as well.

LOL that'd be something we could definitely bring in, that'd make a hilarious visual. The Bamfs appear in this so... the nightmare could evolve one bad day, and Logan sees Kurt with all his Bamfs chasing him around LOLOLOLOL

Each and every creation IS fully credited btw.

If you're a Kurt fan, PLS join the convo! The real annoncing of the fan collab animated project, comes late Nov, and the first upload comes Dec 2020

At that time, it'll be public, and everyone would know more about the plot and all to brainstorm and contribute to the narrative.

I'm most definitely a Kurt fan!

[From The Shadows]

Most of those she's a teen versus the 90s cartoon where she is an adult. So maybe she was a mousy teen that grew confident over the years?

It would fit that Rogue was a very confident exuberant young woman, before her own mutant powers kicked in and was immediately afflicted with crippling self-doubt and drew in on herself (after nearly killing her boyfriend, and absorbing all of his fear and confusion and doubts at the moment it happened), and only after gaining the Carol Danvers powers (and attitude) that sort of re-ignited her own childhood confidence.

It would be sort of the best of both worlds, in that Rogue's stronger (and more popular) personality traits could indeed have been her own, and not just borrowed confidence from Carol.

I always thought the attitude came from her time as a member of the Brotherhood, no matter how temporary. I know Carols tough but I really don't see her as sassy. I wasn't a TAS watcher so I don't know if the Brotherhood was mentioned as being in her past? The Brohood attitude was always my head canon.

And since I posted her crying in the touching/powerful moments thread, obviously I'm backtracking, to all the serious nutters who obviously didn't/don't read the comics. Even tough girls cry too. There is no conspiracy. Like I don't read them much now. But at least I know this. And understand it.

[Su_Whisterfield]

WELCOME!

I assume you've read a bit of this thread lol Basically, this is a pre... whatever thread, for X-Fans to brainstorm about ideas they'd like to see for a fan collab animated series! Just to give a tinsy bit of history on this project, it was initially created to be somewhat a family friendly, cutesy show about our Marvel heroes as kids, still with fans being able to submit plot ideas for the narrative... then late 2019... COPPA HAPPENED. That changed everything. So... the original narrative, script and planned arcs were ALL scrapped, and under went a lot of change. The show now is set to be way more mature in theme, not nearly as vulgar as South Park, but its gonna start off with our heroes as kids (cuz it'll take forever to redraw them) and later, we'll let them grow up during a time skip. So... plenty of suggestive themes, violence and perilous things in it now. This is so you can better envision plot ideas, with what we're working with atm

ALL that out the way, now to your points!

Those are very interesting points on Kurt's history that I know for certain our writers... don't know in depth.

Kurt's history in our "main timeline" (cuz yes, we have a multiverse too) has a very different twist to his backstory, but its supposed to bridge several elements from his canon to his narrative here. It was suggested for Kurt to be a bit reclusive when first joining the X-Men (due to escaping abuse), and others like Jean (who helps a lot with rehabilitating several members) helps Kurt warm up. Later, a religious person would gift him his first Bible, which helps put him on his track.

As of now, he would start off the quiet, very shy onewho fears reaching out and being rejected. But finding a new family with the X-Men, he warms up a lot, and everyone treats him like their little brother. He does serve as a foil to the more hardened of the group (like Logan and John Proudstar), but is very kindhearted and finds himself there for others when down.

Whatever you'd like to brainstorm and suggest, definitely do so! Late November, this is supposed to launch, with the first short coming Dec, and the teaser trailer for New Years

If there are two words to describe Kurt, I would say ‘quiet and shy’ are the least appropriate.

I understand that fan writers might want to amend parts of characters backstories but there are some things which are just integral to Kurt’s core personality.
He grew up in a circus, in a supportive and open minded environment, he was accepted and part of the circus family. I just can’t conceive the Kurt from the comics not having that background, it’s so basic to his character, he’s still wearing a variant of his circus costume to this day. He has a very rose tinted view of the circus life, obviously, it can’t have always been easy, particularly when the cute toddler and sweet little boy became a gawky teenager, but his talent for the trapeze is a learned skill, nothing to do with is mutation; someone spent a lot of time and effort training him to be a top flyer. But I don’t think you would ever get Kurt to admit how hard it was.

When he joined the X-Men, he had killed his brother only days before. But he never mentions this (in reality, because it was a ret-con) which also tells you quite a lot about his strength of personality; he doesn’t look for excuses, he just gets on with things, this is another aspect of Kurt.

Also, being ‘handed a bible and discover his path’ sounds horribly like the US born again Christian stuff which isn’t any part of his background. It’s most likely that he will have been baptised and confirmed into the Catholic faith during his time in the circus, which again, shows that some priest, somewhere in Germany, accepted this monstrous looking child and looked beyond the surface to see the person below, which is a very christian thing to do.

He’s been a swashbuckling film buff from day one, all those old film posters, the late night sessions watching black and white films, even his image inducer set to look like Errol Flynn.
I’m sure America was a huge shock to him, he might have traveled across mainland Europe a lot as a child, I bet he can order ein bier in half a dozen languages, but I suspect his view of the US was based on old films which were thirty, forty years out of date.

I think if you strip too much of his backstory away, (the circus, the film buff, the swordsman, the quiet strength) you just get a blue demonic looking mutant called Nightcrawler with a faux German accent. But you don’t get Kurt, you don’t get the character his fans love and understand, you lose the depth, the nuance, the essence of what makes him him.

Edit to add: I think it’s a bad idea to base any of the characters on their appearance in other media such as films or TV. You’re making a copy of a copy and will only make any flaws in the copy more noticeable.
Go back to the original source material, reimagine that if you want to, but use the comics as your baseline.

[Gripstir]

My two penneth on Nightcrawler.
Religious Kurt is the least interesting Kurt, mostly because US writers have absolutely no clue how a Europe Catholic, raised in post Nazi Germany by Romani circus people would behave.
The scars from the films are an absolute anathema to me as Kurt’s whole raison d'être is accepting who you are, no matter what you might look like. He is the metaphor for mutant suffering and abuse made flesh but rises above it to be a kind, compassionate and witty person.
In general his fans like swashbuckling, charming Kurt way mire than angsty brooding Kurt.
He is a superb foil for the dangerous, hard characters like Wolverine but he’s also a sympathetic ally for the kinder end of the spectrum such as Jean.

So I totally agree that the happy go lucky happy in adversity Kurt is kinda his best form . Like I consider Kurt a lot like Aang in Avatar. He's happy when so much is happening around him. But he's still insecure.

Also just want to point out something Gmikey told us which is that they start out as kids here. And there will be a time skip to really develop his adult personality. I haven't read much nightcrawler stuff but can you tell me how much they delve into his personality as a youngster? I know there is mentions of his past but idk if we have ever seen it

I agree that he is kinda able to get along with lots of people probably due to his non judgmental attitude

If there are two words to describe Kurt, I would say ‘quiet and shy’ are the least appropriate.

I understand that fan writers might want to amend parts of characters backstories but there are some things which are just integral to Kurt’s core personality.
He grew up in a circus, in a supportive and open minded environment, he was accepted and part of the circus family. I just can’t conceive the Kurt from the comics not having that background, it’s so basic to his character, he’s still wearing a variant of his circus costume to this day. He has a very rose tinted view of the circus life, obviously, it can’t have always been easy, particularly when the cute toddler and sweet little boy became a gawky teenager, but his talent for the trapeze is a learned skill, nothing to do with is mutation; someone spent a lot of time and effort training him to be a top flyer. But I don’t think you would ever get Kurt to admit how hard it was.

When he joined the X-Men, he had killed his brother only days before. But he never mentions this (in reality, because it was a ret-con) which also tells you quite a lot about his strength of personality; he doesn’t look for excuses, he just gets on with things, this is another aspect of Kurt.

Also, being ‘handed a bible and discover his path’ sounds horribly like the US born again Christian stuff which isn’t any part of his background. It’s most likely that he will have been baptised and confirmed into the Catholic faith during his time in the circus, which again, shows that some priest, somewhere in Germany, accepted this monstrous looking child and looked beyond the surface to see the person below, which is a very christian thing to do.

He’s been a swashbuckling film buff from day one, all those old film posters, the late night sessions watching black and white films, even his image inducer set to look like Errol Flynn.
I’m sure America was a huge shock to him, he might have traveled across mainland Europe a lot as a child, I bet he can order ein bier in half a dozen languages, but I suspect his view of the US was based on old films which were thirty, forty years out of date.

I think if you strip too much of his backstory away, (the circus, the film buff, the swordsman, the quiet strength) you just get a blue demonic looking mutant called Nightcrawler with a faux German accent. But you don’t get Kurt, you don’t get the character his fans love and understand, you lose the depth, the nuance, the essence of what makes him him.

Edit to add: I think it’s a bad idea to base any of the characters on their appearance in other media such as films or TV. You’re making a copy of a copy and will only make any flaws in the copy more noticeable.
Go back to the original source material, reimagine that if you want to, but use the comics as your baseline.

I mentioned the inducer before but I didn't know it was based on an old film star. Cool fact.

I wonder if circus is totally modern relevant. Maybe cirque de soleil? But i do like his outcast nature. Maybe he joins the circus during the time skip? Idk just them being kids first changes up everyone's backstory


I'm not sure if you read my post about the Warren and Kurt story but I thought it would be a good thing about how he is actually so pure of heart while looking demonic and Warren being Angel was kinda the corrupting factor. I do agree that Kurt is much more than just the religious aspect.

[Gripstir]

My fanon is that that whole issue with Wolverine being chased around the lawn by one Kurt Wagner and telling him he's going to hell was one of Logans nightmares because of his guilt and it didn't wreck the most bro moment ever in the Brood Saga, with the exception of the piano, that was great. Either that was an out and out retcon or that was someone not knowing their Canon.

ETA: And someone even wrote a fic with my idea.

I don't believe I read that one but can you direct me to what issue of what series that's in to check it out? Sounds interesting

I always thought the attitude came from her time as a member of the Brotherhood, no matter how temporary. I know Carols tough but I really don't see her as sassy. I wasn't a TAS watcher so I don't know if the Brotherhood was mentioned as being in her past? The Brohood attitude was always my head canon.

And since I posted her crying in the touching/powerful moments thread, obviously I'm backtracking, to all the serious nutters who obviously didn't/don't read the comics. Even tough girls cry too. There is no conspiracy. Like I don't read them much now. But at least I know this. And understand it.

I think Rogue is just a tomboy. She likes to do rough and tumble stuff and talk smack and is sarcastic and all that but at the end of the day she has her breakdowns just like anyone else

[Su_Whisterfield]

So I totally agree that the happy go lucky happy in adversity Kurt is kinda his best form . Like I consider Kurt a lot like Aang in Avatar. He's happy when so much is happening around him. But he's still insecure.

Also just want to point out something Gmikey told us which is that they start out as kids here. And there will be a time skip to really develop his adult personality. I haven't read much nightcrawler stuff but can you tell me how much they delve into his personality as a youngster? I know there is mentions of his past but idk if we have ever seen it

I agree that he is kinda able to get along with lots of people probably due to his non judgmental attitude

There’s been some insight into Kurt’s backstory, the first being Annual 4 where his foster mother is revealed as being a very powerful sorceress and the addition of her children as his foster siblings ( and his sister being his girlfriend, thanks, Chris, sigh).
Later stories have embroidered on this, making his foster mother less powerful and showing some of the abuse which he went through when the circus changed hands and the new owner wanted him as a freak rather than a performer.

Things like a non-judgemental character come from somewhere, traits like that don’t develop in a void. An upbringing in a multicultural, accepting environment despite looking like a nightmare is important.

I mentioned the inducer before but I didn't know it was based on an old film star. Cool fact.

I wonder if circus is totally modern relevant. Maybe cirque de soleil? But i do like his outcast nature. Maybe he joins the circus during the time skip? Idk just them being kids first changes up everyone's backstory

The image inducer is in itself problematic, hiding behind a mask is not the solution, as Logan (who can safely pass as human) is insistent on pointing out. And it could be changed to look like anyone (accidentally mirroring his blood mother’s ability to wear anyone’s face) Wolverine changed the settings to make Kurt look like Angelina Jolie (as friends do...)

I’m not sure how circuses aren’t ‘modern relevant’ they still exist (even during Covid) including small travelling circuses.

I'm not sure if you read my post about the Warren and Kurt story but I thought it would be a good thing about how he is actually so pure of heart while looking demonic and Warren being Angel was kinda the corrupting factor. I do agree that Kurt is much more than just the religious aspect.

But Angel wasn’t an evil character as a kid? He was highly privileged but nothing more. If the characters are being introduced young, it would be hard to cast him in that role until later when he becomes Apocalypse’s horseman.
As I said before, if you change all the characters backstories completely, start pulling in random, non-comics traits from other media, are they still the X-Men? Would it not be better to create new characters? Copies of copies become more diluted and further from the source material.

[Phoenixx9]

There’s been some insight into Kurt’s backstory, the first being Annual 4 where his foster mother is revealed as being a very powerful sorceress and the addition of her children as his foster siblings ( and his sister being his girlfriend, thanks, Chris, sigh).
Later stories have embroidered on this, making his foster mother less powerful and showing some of the abuse which he went through when the circus changed hands and the new owner wanted him as a freak rather than a performer.

Margalie Szardos, a powerful sorceress of the Winding Way.

His sister, Amanda Sefton, also took up a sorceress role for a time.

[Gripstir]

There’s been some insight into Kurt’s backstory, the first being Annual 4 where his foster mother is revealed as being a very powerful sorceress and the addition of her children as his foster siblings ( and his sister being his girlfriend, thanks, Chris, sigh).
Later stories have embroidered on this, making his foster mother less powerful and showing some of the abuse which he went through when the circus changed hands and the new owner wanted him as a freak rather than a performer.

Things like a non-judgemental character come from somewhere, traits like that don’t develop in a void. An upbringing in a multicultural, accepting environment despite looking like a nightmare is important.

Thanks for that info. It's usually glossed over but Kurt definitely went through some things

I slightly disagree with the "raised in multicultural environment" thing science shows things like aggression and compliance do have genetic traits. Not saying environment doesn't play a factor in your behavior but your demeanor is not based on multicultural upbringing. It's in our DNA. That's why you could put a completely different person and have them go through the exact same circumstances and events and could turn out completely different. Don't get me wrong environment does help shape you but the stuff that is being shaped is already in there.

And truthfully I like the thought of Kurt being Kurt and not his upbringing. It involves a bit of spirit. Incorruptible soul and what not. At least that's my opinion. You can tell I favor nature vs nurture a bit more lol. But I agree showing the hurt Kurt goes through and those that accept him would be great. I wonder if they could do that

The image inducer is in itself problematic, hiding behind a mask is not the solution, as Logan (who can safely pass as human) is insistent on pointing out. And it could be changed to look like anyone (accidentally mirroring his blood mother’s ability to wear anyone’s face) Wolverine changed the settings to make Kurt look like Angelina Jolie (as friends do...)

I’m not sure how circuses aren’t ‘modern relevant’ they still exist (even during Covid) including small travelling circuses.

I mean we have seen many times the "passing mutants" say "there's nothing wrong with us to be cured" but someone like Rogue who can't touch anyone is like "are you freaking serious right now". (Not sure if you saw the meme of Storm and Rogue about Storm makes "clouds" but it's pretty funny) So the image inducer does make sense.

Wanting to be just normal and not stand out is something everyone wants. Like think of a celebrity, who gets tons of attention. Sometimes, good or bad, they don't want to stand out. So even if it wasn't for discrimination I could still see him wanting to use the inducer.

And whenever the inducer was brought up there's been many discussions about if he should or shouldn't use it and I always enjoyed those stories personally. It's up to us to decide if we support it or not

As for the circuses the reason I asked is that the last time I heard about one was when (I think) Ringling Brothers circus was shut down for animal abuse (again I think) so I wasn't sure if more circuses got the axe as well. But I'm actually really glad they are still around

But Angel wasn’t an evil character as a kid? He was highly privileged but nothing more. If the characters are being introduced young, it would be hard to cast him in that role until later when he becomes Apocalypse’s horseman.
As I said before, if you change all the characters backstories completely, start pulling in random, non-comics traits from other media, are they still the X-Men? Would it not be better to create new characters? Copies of copies become more diluted and further from the source material.

Yeah youre totally right. And with Angel when we were talking about "corrupting" we were thinking more along the lines of selfish and spoiled. Not really evil. In fact we wanted them to go on adventures together. Warren is going to be a bit more of a popular ahole but he's always gonna have a soft spot for Kurt and wants to bring him along and help him out. At least that was my pitch. It's not set in any kind of stone yet though which I like. Just throwing out cool plots and stuff. I believe GMikey hinted that he would want to really delve into that pairing after the Phoenix stuff happens.

And GMikey I don't remember if you told me the Angel and the Phoenix stuff in pm or in the thread but If you are a bike to mention it maybe give him whatever no spoiler stuff you can in that regard to understand Angel

[Phoenixx9]

But Angel wasn’t an evil character as a kid? He was highly privileged but nothing more. If the characters are being introduced young, it would be hard to cast him in that role until later when he becomes Apocalypse’s horseman.
As I said before, if you change all the characters backstories completely, start pulling in random, non-comics traits from other media, are they still the X-Men? Would it not be better to create new characters? Copies of copies become more diluted and further from the source material.

You are correct, Angel was not evil as a kid.

In my story presentation for this project, Angel still is not evil, neither as younger or as adult. He is entitled, rich, snobbish, even boorish. But I have it focused more on his beautiful looks rather than money, although power, status, and the comfort money can afford, is still a part.

In my vision, Angel is very "Angelic looking", very handsome with slightly longer flowing blonde hair. He is tall, thin, muscular. He almost radiates a golden aura. His wings are large, powerful, pure white and beautiful.

Angel loves wearing many different costumes in many different colors, but he loves wearing white costumes specifically with colorful (but not gaudy) trim. He has at least 4 of these. In this aspect, he is the "Wasp" of the X-Men.

While other heroes (and villains) can fly, Angel does so because of his wings. While other mutants might have wings, their wings are not as large, white or beautiful like his. This also plays into Angel's mentality. He is fully embraced in his mutant powers and in himself.

In Angel's defense, he is highly skilled and trained in all of his mutant powers. He is excellent in surveillance missions and has dark costumes and even some weapons he uses at different times. Angel.....might even have a few additional non-comic abilities......

While this personality of Warren is differnet than in the comics, and might seem like too much in one direction, I feel that there is sooo much that can be done with these plot points. There are also plenty of times where humor could be interjected, even if it is very subtle, such as a character saying something to Warren, he agrees, but his agreement is in opposition to his point. They storm off frustrated. Angel has a smug "I told you so" look on his face.

I like characters having different personalities and not necessarily those of the comics all the times. I think Angel is a perfect character for this change.

Anyway, these are my ideas for Angel. I hope you like them.

[GMikey]

Work has gotten the best of my time lately -_- we're short handed that's why

I'll be on to give my two cents and other updates right soon

[GMikey]

Awesome to see more brainstormers for this animated fanon!

Um... some remarks about Kurt should be addressed, wonderful suggestions and tips about his character that I do wanna jump into for sure.

One quick thing, I know this is an "X-Men" thread, but... I do need to spill some of the beans in regards to the Avengers, because their story, introduces (and partially lays the foundation) the X-Men's origins and their overall plot. So, look out for that soon... prolly tonight even