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  1. #1
    Fantastic Member GMikey's Avatar
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    Lightbulb X-Men fan collab think tank

    So... I'm starting this way too early, but I need a better way to converse with fans.

    I want a thread that SOLELY is for fans of the X-Universe, to discuss with me ALL things canon to the X-Universe, and how it should be utilized in fanon.

    This thread will also allow for healthy, respectful debates about characters, story arcs, the cosmology and such.

    Please, anyone who doesn't agree with something being discussed or debated, just ignore that post, OR ignore this thread entirely. I DO want some friendly debate, some discussion and info being brought out, AND discuss how would THIS fandom, YOU ALL, would want to see it all implemented in animated form.

    You all can kindly just start with canon material that you feel should be observed more, what you think is overrated or underrated, and stuff like that
    Last edited by GMikey; 10-03-2020 at 09:47 AM.

  2. #2
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    I am on board!

    Thank you for starting this thread. It is so great that fans get to have input.

    I am positive some Extraordinary Ideas can be forthcoming.

  3. #3
    Fantastic Member GMikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    I am on board!

    Thank you for starting this thread. It is so great that fans get to have input.

    I am positive some Extraordinary Ideas can be forthcoming.
    AWESOME SAUCE

    I felt that... If I just open this as a discussion it might be best, then those who want to participate would be those I just converse and debate with

    Others showed interest as well, so... will invite them to "join the discussion" lol

  4. #4
    Fantastic Member GMikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    I am on board!

    Thank you for starting this thread. It is so great that fans get to have input.

    I am positive some Extraordinary Ideas can be forthcoming.
    YES this is a preliminary thread for brainstorming, but... I feel this would be the best way to ASK ALL the questions WITH those who'd like to participate

    In my next post, I'm gonna share the ideas of the chief writer, concerning the entirety of the Phoenix Force, and Jean Grey's relationship with it. You already know it kinda (from the PM I think), but I'm gonna post the full context of the Phoenix Force alone. I was actually surprised with some of the choices she made, based on suggestions from here

  5. #5
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMikey View Post
    YES this is a preliminary thread for brainstorming, but... I feel this would be the best way to ASK ALL the questions WITH those who'd like to participate

    In my next post, I'm gonna share the ideas of the chief writer, concerning the entirety of the Phoenix Force, and Jean Grey's relationship with it. You already know it kinda (from the PM I think), but I'm gonna post the full context of the Phoenix Force alone. I was actually surprised with some of the choices she made, based on suggestions from here
    Cool. Looking forward to the post.

  6. #6
    Incredible Member OopsIdiditagain's Avatar
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    Canon:
    Cyclops is a perpetual cheater and has commitment issues.
    Last edited by OopsIdiditagain; 09-18-2020 at 01:13 PM.
    OP characters make me itch

  7. #7
    Fantastic Member GMikey's Avatar
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    Okay so... I already "tagged" certain members to come over here and read this...

    ANYWAY... So... I've asked a lot of questions about the Phoenix Force, and the X-Men on multiple platforms. Why? Because I'm a part of a mass gathering of fans, creating a Marvel series of various characters and teams. The aim is to create a platform, created by fans FOR fans, to come up with ideas and storylines of our own, and hobbyist animators would make it manifest. Doing something like that, requires a great deal of a CONSENSUS of how this universe/multiverse would work, and lay down a solid foundation to prevent confusion and clashing of understanding.... getting there has been a TRIPPPPP-!

    So there's been a lot of discussion on the Phoenix Force as it may be the most divisive thing in the whole Marvel canon. Why is it "obsessed" with Jean Grey? Is Jean Grey truly the only person of all time to become one with the Phoenix? What can the Phoenix truly do, and what is outside its power? Is it a multiversal or universal force? Well... a more comprehensive proposal was given by the chief writer, and it took me a while to condense it all. Thanks to YOU ALL, I was able to collect "data" and submit my findings to the writers. Here's what she's developed and is proposing...

    "The Phoenix Force is a "universal", primordial force, child of the universe, the M'Kraan Crystal, and is the psionic nexus of any given universe. It's purpose or "Phoenix Work" is to provide the life force of its universe, and use its psionic prowess to connect to all existing things, discover what must be nurtured, reformed, or no longer serves a purpose. It also has a thing against "artificial evolution" (a key topic to explore in the future). All forms of the Phoenix Force of each and every given universe born and dies, are linked to the center of creation, the White Hot Room, where resides the "multiversal" nexus, soul of the Collective Phoenix Force, "the Phoenix Consciousness". It resides within the Crown, the highest realm of the White Hot Room, serving as "the Crown Chakra" of the Multiverse, and a "parental figure" of all Phoenix energy. It is in the Crown, the Phoenix attains full connectivity to all of "Existence" aka "this Multiverse", and possesses the full mobility and manipulation of "Existence". Only the most connected of Phoenix hosts can access the Crown of the White Hot Room. The White Hot room is the central birthplace, workspace and afterlife of all Phoenixes, and place of recollection and rejuvenation. The White Hot Room also acts as a "Grand Library" of all Phoenix and all cosmic knowledge. It is this, that makes the Phoenix Force one of the highest of respected cosmic entities..."

    In other words, the Phoenix Force as a cosmic energy and entity, exists within its respective and specific universe, however she did adopt the idea of the Phoenix being multiversal on some level. She states it makes sense for the Phoenix to exist specific to each universe, as its the nexus of psionic energy and life force. However, as the White Hot Room is nexus of all realities (definitely multiversal), and this is the domain of the Phoenix Consciousness, then the Phoenix Conscious Spirit and nexus IS multiversal, and any Phoenix host that connects to the Phoenix Consciousness attains a multiversal status, even if temporary. While she never addressed WPOC, there's no doubt that the White Phoenix shared this powerful connection with the Phoenix Consciousness, so... I would believe that in this work at least, White Phoenix of the Crown IS a multiversal entity (despite whether or not that's true in canon).

    So... this is Jean Grey's new narrative... I will actually repeat a PM I sent someone to save myself some work LOL

    "I (the chief) want to propose changes to Jean Grey's character, to fit a more "relatable" narrative. Jean Grey would be the girl who grew up middle class, with both parents, was well liked at school, and had everything going for her. Even as her psionic abilities began to awaken, she was still seen as something special, and wasn't reviled in a way that other Mutants were. She would grow a concern of all mutants, and following her mentor's footsteps, would want to use her powers to help the cause of mutants, on a fairly deep level. This (more than the incident with her cousin), is what touches the Phoenix. As she uses her psionic abilities to aid others, and reach deep levels of their psyche. The Phoenix would enhance her little at a time, helping her reach new levels of psionic power. However, as it became too much to bear, Xavier would suppress her abilities, and release it little by little.

    However... she's not perfect. Jean Grey, would silently demonstrate signs of psionic elitism, attention issues, and even jealousy, if someone is seen to be better than her, or even more so, if she found herself unable to penetrate something, like she always could. This is what allowed the Dark Phoenix to manifest later on as, Hellfire fed into negative traits of hers which she never addressed (thus giving her character powerful moments of reflection, and need to overcome something).

    This would give Jean Grey a lot more character development as the story progresses, and would also mirror what the Phoenix Force itself, winds up confronting later on. Dark Phoenix ends very differently, in that, Xavier sacrifices himself (very long story) so Jean would live, and he nearly dies. After this, Jean and Phoenix find the dire need to reconcile with each other, as they take on a new challenge together. This is how Jean becomes the "one true host". The Events of Dark Phoenix left the Phoenix Force broken, and it lost a part of itself during the ordeal. Phoenix returns to Jean as an "onmiversal threat" arises [I thought she said multiversal oops], and as Jean becomes Phoenix, Phoenix supplements its powers from Jean, making them fit more and more into each other, and we actually witness a transformation of Jean becoming its most compatible host. It gives better credence to Jean as "the one true host", making her earn that, rather than some... chosen one cliche, where this near omnipotent entity can only choose this one person, to be the most special of all..."

    Now... there are fans, that aren't Jean Grey fans and either didn't want Jean as Phoenix, or have the Phoenix in it at all (even the chief writer herself, states she's actually not a fan either, but that didn't stop her to write a compelling narrative for this character). But of course, plenty of Phoenix/Jean fans pushed back, and so... this is only part of the story. As stated before, this is going to be "The Phoenix Trilogy", and the other side of this story introduces something else she's REALLY excited about, for the non-Grey Phoenix fans, and that has a whole arc in itself. It also serves as the nemesis/archrival of the Phoenix Force/Jean Grey, creating one of the best (if not the best), cosmic level conflicts and conflicted-ness for the X-Men that's brand new, IT DEVELOPS CHARACTERS, and all the X-Men are given a spotlight as well, despite the Trilogy being Phoenix/Cosmic centered...

    What are your thoughts! I felt this was the best route to go, and it puts the Phoenix in much greater perspective than what I've tried to read up on here and there
    Last edited by GMikey; 09-17-2020 at 09:33 PM.

  8. #8
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    I think the idea of Jean Grey having some more personality is a great idea. I do always grow concerned when people use the word "relatable" because for some reason I'm too weird or opposite personality than the writer. So relatable characters are often the most foreign to me and I kinda end up tuning them out. But that being said I can think of many different ways this story will satisfy a lot of people lol

  9. #9
    Fantastic Member GMikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OopsIdiditagain View Post
    Fanon:
    Cyclops is a perpetual cheater and has commitment issues.
    LOL now is that something you'd WANT covered in a fan created series, or something you'd want to avoid?

  10. #10
    Fantastic Member GMikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gripstir View Post
    I think the idea of Jean Grey having some more personality is a great idea. I do always grow concerned when people use the word "relatable" because for some reason I'm too weird or opposite personality than the writer. So relatable characters are often the most foreign to me and I kinda end up tuning them out. But that being said I can think of many different ways this story will satisfy a lot of people lol
    The term "relatable" gets SKEWED to shit with many, many writers, because they'll tack on superficial attributes with no true meaning or direction... and think its enough to call "relatable". No this is not that. This is about giving Jean some struggles to overcome within her character as a person. And giving her credence as the Phoenix's "one true host".

    I feel a huge bulk of what she discussed is awesome, it broadens Jean Grey AND the Phoenix, and gives them the substance I feel many fans WISH for...

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMikey View Post
    The term "relatable" gets SKEWED to shit with many, many writers, because they'll tack on superficial attributes with no true meaning or direction... and think its enough to call "relatable". No this is not that. This is about giving Jean some struggles to overcome within her character as a person. And giving her credence as the Phoenix's "one true host".

    I feel a huge bulk of what she discussed is awesome, it broadens Jean Grey AND the Phoenix, and gives them the substance I feel many fans WISH for...
    Totally I think the entire group of people working on this sound like they really want to put something deep and lore filled and I can't wait to see it lol

  12. #12
    Amazing Member otipep_90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMikey View Post
    "The Phoenix Force is a "universal", primordial force, child of the universe, the M'Kraan Crystal, and is the psionic nexus of any given universe. It's purpose or "Phoenix Work" is to provide the life force of its universe, and use its psionic prowess to connect to all existing things, discover what must be nurtured, reformed, or no longer serves a purpose. It also has a thing against "artificial evolution" (a key topic to explore in the future). All forms of the Phoenix Force of each and every given universe born and dies, are linked to the center of creation, the White Hot Room, where resides the "multiversal" nexus, soul of the Collective Phoenix Force, "the Phoenix Consciousness". It resides within the Crown, the highest realm of the White Hot Room, serving as "the Crown Chakra" of the Multiverse, and a "parental figure" of all Phoenix energy. It is in the Crown, the Phoenix attains full connectivity to all of "Existence" aka "this Multiverse", and possesses the full mobility and manipulation of "Existence". Only the most connected of Phoenix hosts can access the Crown of the White Hot Room. The White Hot room is the central birthplace, workspace and afterlife of all Phoenixes, and place of recollection and rejuvenation. The White Hot Room also acts as a "Grand Library" of all Phoenix and all cosmic knowledge. It is this, that makes the Phoenix Force one of the highest of respected cosmic entities..."

    In other words, the Phoenix Force as a cosmic energy and entity, exists within its respective and specific universe, however she did adopt the idea of the Phoenix being multiversal on some level. She states it makes sense for the Phoenix to exist specific to each universe, as its the nexus of psionic energy and life force. However, as the White Hot Room is nexus of all realities (definitely multiversal), and this is the domain of the Phoenix Consciousness, then the Phoenix Conscious Spirit and nexus IS multiversal, and any Phoenix host that connects to the Phoenix Consciousness attains a multiversal status, even if temporary. While she never addressed WPOC, there's no doubt that the White Phoenix shared this powerful connection with the Phoenix Consciousness, so... I would believe that in this work at least, White Phoenix of the Crown IS a multiversal entity (despite whether or not that's true in canon).
    Perfect this works with what Claremont, Davis, and Morrison all established with their Phoenix Mythos. I believe that the WPoTC is the ultimate level the Phoenix Avatars can achieve (temporarily) when tapping directly to the Crown Chakra and the Phoenix Consciousness. Also I would like to add that giving Jean some struggles is great. Bendis did it with Teen Jean, which helped break the misconception that Adult Jean was perfect because she became a Martyr. Just make sure Jean doesn’t appear to be petty or crazy, which are all bad cliche for female characters and is ultimately unheroic.
    Last edited by otipep_90; 09-17-2020 at 10:24 PM.

  13. #13
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    I like it, GMikey!

    Just reading it I think it already adds depth to Jean, her history and her time/bond with the Phoenix Force.

    Cannot wait to see the additional new parts. If they are even near as good, this project will really work! All fans should have something about this they love, if not the entire composition!

    Then, after all of the story is completed, we need EXCELLENT artist to draw each character.

  14. #14
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    I like the idea that the Phoenix Force, after who knows how long bottled up inside that M'Krann crystal, had no healthy way to express all these feelings inside of Jean, that it was really experiencing for the first time in ages, and even the small bits that weren't a big part of Jean were magnified all out of proportion, as the Phoenix Force was leaning into everything hard and had no real sense of restraint or proportion, like someone who had been starving for months (or, yanno, millenia) being let loose at an all-you-can-eat buffet.

    Being incarnated in a human form is kind of like a drug for it, getting lost in all those feelings and sensations, finally getting to touch and swim in and be a part of the whole of creation that it only previously knew in sort of an abstract way. This was more visceral, more intimate. The painter getting to get her fingers in the paint and swirl stuff around without the brush getting in the way or an apron keeping it from 'getting on her.'

    And Jean, so much passion, so much feeling, so much more intoxicating than someone a bit more world-weary or restrained... If spending time as a part of creation, and not just a force for creation, was intoxicating, Jean was top shelf.

  15. #15
    Fantastic Member GMikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gripstir View Post
    Totally I think the entire group of people working on this sound like they really want to put something deep and lore filled and I can't wait to see it lol
    I also can't wait to see this manifest. And yes they are... VERY passionate, and desire to bring something rich, powerful and in depth. I also can't wait for the fan ideas to merge with the narrative. That's also gonna be awesome

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