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  1. #61
    Fantastic Member GMikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    GMikey, are they going to show any encounters between Carol Danvers and Rogue?

    I think for a complete Rogue story/history, the audience needs to learn of some of these key points, even if not in full stories or story arcs. Perhaps shown over 1 or 2 episodes in flashbacks or a mixture of flashbacks with current day.

    Like a prologue for how Rogue got her powers when she battled Ms Marvel on the Golden Gate Bridge and stole her powers? How about years later when Carol had become Binary and surprisingly found Rogue at the X-Mansion when she sent Rogue flying into near orbit?

    Then years later (present day or near-present day, perhaps), they can show how Carol has forgiven Rogue. Rogue realizes and apologizes for what she did and that they are no longer enemies.
    Short answer on that, YES. Its VERY underdeveloped, but Rogue and Carol's relationship heavily impacts the dark future that sets after the Phoenix Trilogy. Prior to that, we'll get some good encounters of Captain Marvel and Rogue, like... WAY early on, like, during ARC I prolly.

    Like I said, we don't have a full picture in mind, but bring those ideas in, let's chat about them. I kinda like having their... relationship established as flashbacks over the course of two episodes, that would set the tone for who are in coming future episodes. During the Phoenix Trilogy, Carol Danvers is awaken by the anomaly event I've spoken to you in PM about, and as she rediscovers bits and pieces of who she is, Rogue returns to her radar. Like I said, it's not fleshed out, but it IS a very improtant plot for later on

  2. #62
    Fantastic Member GMikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gripstir View Post
    I actually feel like the way Buffy the Vampire handled ensouled vamps could be a good basis for handling it but I don't feel like spoiling the show. But in order to do that Carols personality would have to be corrupting Rogue being in her.

    i did consider Carol being a corrupting influence maybe the part inside Rogue goes mad or something and Rogue needs to get her out but Gambit had a story like that being possessed by someone named Mary Purcell. Not really a fan favorite plot point among Xmen fans. So I guess for my input on how potentially to handle it here's my personal idea. Just keep in mid this is coming from a Gambit fan so I don't know how Rogue fans would feel about it. And just a rough draft idea

    So maybe there's a storyline where Rogue has a crush on another guy at the mansion and has feelings for him but doesn't want to pursue anything. Maybe he likes her too maybe not. But maybe Remy keeps flirting with her but he seems too sexual for her and that scares her. So she doesn't even consider him. Remy keeps flirting though but they aren't ever together due to trust issues and the powers struff. At this point maybe they have a friendship or s slightly trusting adversarial relationship. But maybe the Carol stuff inside starts to get too much and starts causing a breakdown in Rogues head (again I don't know exactly how Rogues absorbed personalities work so trust other people's critique over this). Rogue starts to decend and maybe there comes a critical reaction where Rogues own head is betraying her maybe she thinks the other guy she has a crush on is going to help her but for whatever reason fails to help. Maybe what ends up saving her is instead of something like Gambit declaring love for her or something what ends up happening is Gambit screams that no telepath no love nothing can help her. The only thing that can save her is herself. The thing that saves Rogue is everyone believing in her but really it's just a push to realize she can save herself from whatever is in her head. And maybe Gambit risking everything to go in just to give her a confidence push and not s romantic gesture is what starts her trust in him (but she can still be all sassy and find him annoying at his pursuits and stuff)

    Idk that's just my idea.
    I mean hey that's a cool idea. Even if not utilized to its fullest (more than likely, we're sewing in multiple good ideas together), it could definitely serve as a base, to understand Rogue more via personality. While this series is geared towards adults, the sexuality would be toned a bit as they start off as kids (adolescents to be exact), and yes they're factoring Rogue's origin of her first kiss so... that's gonna be weird, but they are working it out lol

    This would be a great way to kick off Gambit and Rogue's relationship, and serve as a way of exploring other personas surfacing within her. Similar to how bi-polar disorders work. I do like Gambit starting off being overbearing, yet... we find he truly loves her, and that cna play a factor in reeling her onto her path again

    PS this reply was short cuz I've spent my whole day off answering msgs X'DDDDD

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMikey View Post
    I mean hey that's a cool idea. Even if not utilized to its fullest (more than likely, we're sewing in multiple good ideas together), it could definitely serve as a base, to understand Rogue more via personality. While this series is geared towards adults, the sexuality would be toned a bit as they start off as kids (adolescents to be exact), and yes they're factoring Rogue's origin of her first kiss so... that's gonna be weird, but they are working it out lol

    This would be a great way to kick off Gambit and Rogue's relationship, and serve as a way of exploring other personas surfacing within her. Similar to how bi-polar disorders work. I do like Gambit starting off being overbearing, yet... we find he truly loves her, and that cna play a factor in reeling her onto her path again

    PS this reply was short cuz I've spent my whole day off answering msgs X'DDDDD
    Hey I have to type on an iPad and phone and I am horrible with touch screens and it always autocorrects and it’s hard for me to keep track of sentences. So yeah I understand when you need a break from typing your fingers off lol.

    For Rogue I really think her and Gambit work best when they are individual characters who find each other rather than written for each other. That’s why I think other relationship struggles first might be good. For me their banter and their flirting is really good. And people might hate me for saying this but in the original cartoon I like how Rogue often used a bit of violence to deal with Gambits advances. Like throwing him around and pushing him into a pool or whatever. And gambit being the embodiment of “parents aren’t home come over” meme. I’d love to see them grow up parallel but with their own stories. I think for a time jump maybe during the break one of them takes off and it’s when they come back that’s when things can turn up a bit lol

    As for Rogue/Carol I really just want to see some good Rogue empowerment and good humor and good personality. And so far what you’ve said sounds like we are getting a lot of that. So yeah sweeet!

  4. #64
    Fantastic Member GMikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gripstir View Post
    Hey I have to type on an iPad and phone and I am horrible with touch screens and it always autocorrects and it’s hard for me to keep track of sentences. So yeah I understand when you need a break from typing your fingers off lol.

    For Rogue I really think her and Gambit work best when they are individual characters who find each other rather than written for each other. That’s why I think other relationship struggles first might be good. For me their banter and their flirting is really good. And people might hate me for saying this but in the original cartoon I like how Rogue often used a bit of violence to deal with Gambits advances. Like throwing him around and pushing him into a pool or whatever. And gambit being the embodiment of “parents aren’t home come over” meme. I’d love to see them grow up parallel but with their own stories. I think for a time jump maybe during the break one of them takes off and it’s when they come back that’s when things can turn up a bit lol

    As for Rogue/Carol I really just want to see some good Rogue empowerment and good humor and good personality. And so far what you’ve said sounds like we are getting a lot of that. So yeah sweeet!
    While... there's a majority that really want to bring Gambit/Rogue to the spotlight, I do think it'd be best for them to develop individually a bit, and then they gradually gravitate to each other. Aamof, how that can work is Rogue could have a crush on Angel or Wolverine (prolly Angel), and that situation is just rocky and we see its not working for either one. Due to a major turn in Gambit's character arc, it's been suggested for Gambit to be super flirtatious (for the sake of nuisance) with Jean Grey, building some foreshadowing for their roles in the future. However, later build up that Romy, and how that affects their character development.

    Due to the time skip occurring in The Phoenix Trilogy, they may need to solidify their liking to each other before hand, due to some stuff that happens later on. LOL there's definitely quite a bit of tough love between the two. Rogue definitely has an "empowerment" journey, and I like how different it is. She's already a tomboy sorta, but... its used as a mask. Events help Rogue to build her own confidence and assurance of self

  5. #65
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Good Monday Morning! Back to Jean Grey/Phoenix, and LOTS of questions! A good start for my #6100 post!

    1) Will the Imperial Guard show up?
    2) Is the Phoenix Trilogy going to follow as in the comics, a new vision, or a bit of both?
    3) Will we see Jean/Phoenix VS Gladiator?
    4) Do the Hellfire Club play a part?
    4) Will we see Jean VS Oracle?
    5) Will Jean fight Emma?
    6) Will we see Tessa (Sage) with the Hellfire Club?
    7) Does Jean as Phoenix wear the classic Phoenix costume? The green and gold colors?
    8) Will Jean as Phoenix fight Firelord, Thor or some other super-powerful character?
    9) Post the trilogy and aftermath, will Jean as Phoenix remain with the X-Men, join the Avengers or go into space for cosmic adventures? And will she continue to be featured?
    10) Are the voice actors for Jean and the rest of the cast already chosen?

    My inquisitive mind wants the answers to these and more questions, LOL!
    Last edited by Phoenixx9; 09-21-2020 at 05:39 AM.

  6. #66
    Fantastic Member GMikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    Good Monday Morning! Back to Jean Grey/Phoenix, and LOTS of questions! A good start for my #6100 post!

    1) Will the Imperial Guard show up?
    2) Is the Phoenix Trilogy going to follow as in the comics, a new vision, or a bit of both?
    3) Will we see Jean/Phoenix VS Gladiator?
    4) Do the Hellfire Club play a part?
    4) Will we see Jean VS Oracle?
    5) Will Jean fight Emma?
    6) Will we see Tessa (Sage) with the Hellfire Club?
    7) Does Jean as Phoenix wear the classic Phoenix costume? The green and gold colors?
    8) Will Jean as Phoenix fight Firelord, Thor or some other super-powerful character?
    9) Post the trilogy and aftermath, will Jean as Phoenix remain with the X-Men, join the Avengers or go into space for cosmic adventures? And will she continue to be featured?
    10) Are the voice actors for Jean and the rest of the cast already chosen?

    My inquisitive mind wants the answers to these and more questions, LOL!

    Sweeeet questions! Continue to ask questions and stuff. Just this morning I received a major change in the story already (will explain).

    I'm gonna answer to my knowledge, as I don't know all the details ^_^

    1. Most definitely. The Imperial Guard is to be introduced in the Phoenix Saga, first act of the Phoenix Trilogy. I don't know too much about their story development, but... I've heard bits and pieces of how they would be employed into the Phoenix's narrative.

    2. In short, it's a bit of both. Phoenix Saga and Dark Phoenix Saga follows the basics of the comics overall, with some changes and adjustments here and there. The major change IS the "death" of Jean Grey. SPOILERS. She actually doesn't die, Xavier wound up saving her, which is a crucial plot point, ushering in the Third Act. "The ??? Phoenix Saga" brings in a completely new vision, with new cosmic concepts, unique plots, and character development. Spoilers again, In the moment Jean thought she died, we DO get a moment of her in the White Phoenix costume inside Death's tower. There she learns (I don't remember full) she now has a role with the Phoenix Force, and must return to learn what that is. I actually like the ambiguity, it offers some depth and exploration, than just coming right out and saying it. Also... Jean Grey's role with the Phoenix IS different from comic canon, and yes, I like the new idea much better.

    3. More than likely, yes, we'll get Jean vs. Gladiator. Jean/Phoenix will have numerous moments combating other powerful entities, and in many different forms of combat, which is cool. The coolest battle I know of (other than fighting Phoenix's Rival) is when Jean Grey/Phoenix takes on the Occultish Avengers. That's a good one. And she also does fight Thor. All these Phoenix battles and cosmic ventures are SO cool, can't wait until more of that is allowed revealing

    4. Hellfire/Inner Circle definitely have a role in this, I'll be honest I don't know to what extent. I know they play a major role for Dark Phoenix, and going into The "???" Phoenix Saga, Jean finds herself torn to an offer they make to assist her fight against the Phoenix's Cosmic Rival.

    5. I don't know. I think Oracle has been mentioned but... not too sure on that one. A lot of this story is in early developmental stages so... plenty room for development!

    6. That's another I'm not sure on, with Sage. I don't think she's ever been mentioned, I could ask.

    7. Yes, she wears a green/gold suit similar to the classic, and going into "The "???" Phoenix Saga", she wears an updated version of the Green Phoenix suit. Jean Grey I know will be seen in her green/gold suit, the red/gold suit, the white/gold suit and a straight white suit, but also while with the X-Men, she'll sport a green tee with Phoenix on it. Similar to comics.

    8. Going back to Question 3, yes she'll have some awesome adventures and fights with various powerful characters. This is part of the "retcon" that just happened this morning. Originally, Jean Grey had the full support of the Cosmic Collective, against the "Cosmic Rival". However, that's been scrapped a bit, in favor of others wanting to take on this entity theselves... as they want to usurp what gives this being unrealized "omnipotence". This adds more complexity to Phoenix/Jean's story during the third act of the Phoenix Trilogy.

    9. Due to someone else's sacrifice, Jean Grey remains with the X-Men, yet still embark on a few cosmic adventures, both her and Phoenix seeking answers for the unexplained events of "The ??? Phoenix Saga". In the aftermath SPOILERS, Xavier dies, one of the X-Men's sacrifice lead to several team members leaving (going on their own mini stories), and leaving Jean Grey to help Scott pick up the pieces, recruit new Mutants, and even honor Xavier's wish in opening her own school "Jean Grey School of Higher Learning". This decision was made to allow her to develop more as a character, beyond just being Phoenix. It also allows us to follow a really wild cosmic adventure, from someone else's perspective.

    10. Starting off, there's only ONE voice actor for Arc I. By the time we get to Arc II, we SHOULD be able to get multiple voices, which means an audition

    Those were AWESOME questions, um... I didn't have answers for them all, but keep asking, it keeps me on my shit, and this helps develop a really awesome plot for everyone.

  7. #67
    Astonishing Member AppleJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMikey View Post
    While... there's a majority that really want to bring Gambit/Rogue to the spotlight, I do think it'd be best for them to develop individually a bit, and then they gradually gravitate to each other. Aamof, how that can work is Rogue could have a crush on Angel or Wolverine (prolly Angel), and that situation is just rocky and we see its not working for either one. Due to a major turn in Gambit's character arc, it's been suggested for Gambit to be super flirtatious (for the sake of nuisance) with Jean Grey, building some foreshadowing for their roles in the future. However, later build up that Romy, and how that affects their character development.

    Due to the time skip occurring in The Phoenix Trilogy, they may need to solidify their liking to each other before hand, due to some stuff that happens later on. LOL there's definitely quite a bit of tough love between the two. Rogue definitely has an "empowerment" journey, and I like how different it is. She's already a tomboy sorta, but... its used as a mask. Events help Rogue to build her own confidence and assurance of self
    A few things I would probably keep in mind with writing Gambit and Rogue in the current era:

    Gambit pushes Rogue's boundaries because her boundaries stop her from getting what she really wants, but is too afraid to reach for. Some readers see this as him not respecting her boundaries, and in past examples they might be right at times. Given the modern lens with MeToo, it's important to demonstrate that Rogue is mutually interested and not afraid of or threatened by Gambit, but of herself. That he does back down when given a hard no, but also can playfully call her out to push herself. We need a Gambit who "Never goes where he's not invited." as so famously put in XTAS. He should be a charming scoundrel, not gross.

    Where Gambit challenges Rogue to take risks, she is a grounding force for him. She should help him want to be his better self and reach for a more heroic path. It would be great to see her showing him more empathy for his poorer choices in life and bad circumstances. That has been lacking in comics at times, but was well served in Evolution.

    As to Rogue's personalities, I would only caution against playing too closely into the "women be crazy" stereotype. It's a comic trope that has played out rather damagingly in the past where women become antagonists because they can't control their emotions. I think it's been an issue with Jean and Scarlet Witch as well.

    Rogue IS in her head kind of a lot for obvious reasons though. At least in comics, the key to control for her is purely psychological and that has been a pretty fascinating take. She will never be cured, so much as just having better days with more control.

    I love that Rogue is tough and practical and a bit of a tom boy. I wouldn't want to see her suddenly turn into a Jean or an Emma. She's not a princess. I love that she can mop the floor with most opponents and that Gambit loves this about her and loves a good tussle with her. But showing her softer side here and there is good too.

    That they can let their guards down for each other is another key in writing them. She doesn't have to be tough around him and he doesn't have to hide his true feelings.

    Definitely build them up individually first. A slow burn is what drew people into them in the 90s.

  8. #68
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Here are some more Jean Grey/Phoenix Questions:

    1) When Jean wants to use her Phoenix powers, will she "change" into Phoenix, the way it was shown originally? It seemed to be a change the way they showed Carol changing into Ms Marvel in the beginning as well---a bolt of energy---- allowing a clothing and seeming personality change.

    2) When Jean, as Phoenix, uses her powers, will we see the huge energy Phoenix Raptor? Will Jean be surrounded by energy? ( I am soooo curious about the visual looks!)

    3) The original Phoenix story took place some 45 years ago now. Will this story take place in the past at that time? Or will it be set in the present?

    4) Slightly different question but still in the same vein, will Jean have just become Phoenix a few years ago and now time jump to the present or is the entire story happening presently regarding Jean and the Phoenix?
    Last edited by Phoenixx9; 09-21-2020 at 12:53 PM.

  9. #69
    Fantastic Member GMikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    Good Monday Morning! Back to Jean Grey/Phoenix, and LOTS of questions! A good start for my #6100 post!

    1) Will the Imperial Guard show up?
    2) Is the Phoenix Trilogy going to follow as in the comics, a new vision, or a bit of both?
    3) Will we see Jean/Phoenix VS Gladiator?
    4) Do the Hellfire Club play a part?
    4) Will we see Jean VS Oracle?
    5) Will Jean fight Emma?
    6) Will we see Tessa (Sage) with the Hellfire Club?
    7) Does Jean as Phoenix wear the classic Phoenix costume? The green and gold colors?
    8) Will Jean as Phoenix fight Firelord, Thor or some other super-powerful character?
    9) Post the trilogy and aftermath, will Jean as Phoenix remain with the X-Men, join the Avengers or go into space for cosmic adventures? And will she continue to be featured?
    10) Are the voice actors for Jean and the rest of the cast already chosen?

    My inquisitive mind wants the answers to these and more questions, LOL!
    HAAAAAAAAAAA... I missed one of your questions o_o

    4. Jean and Emma Frost definitely got moments through out the Phoenix Trilogy. Emma Frost has the most development I've heard of from Hellfire. She's ultimately an "antagonistic" antihero. She makes every move, including joining the X-Men, a calculated one for whatever agenda. Part of her plot is the sly attempt to usurp Jean Grey's power, as she knows something about the Phoenix Force, that Jean isn't aware of...

    Let the brainstorming continue!

  10. #70
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMikey View Post
    HAAAAAAAAAAA... I missed one of your questions o_o

    4. Jean and Emma Frost definitely got moments through out the Phoenix Trilogy. Emma Frost has the most development I've heard of from Hellfire. She's ultimately an "antagonistic" antihero. She makes every move, including joining the X-Men, a calculated one for whatever agenda. Part of her plot is the sly attempt to usurp Jean Grey's power, as she knows something about the Phoenix Force, that Jean isn't aware of...

    Let the brainstorming continue!
    LOL, I noticed that but you did a great job with all the answers. Thanks for answering that one, too!

    Just prior to your response, I asked 4 more new Jean Grey/Phoenix questions.

    #4 from before and now 4 more----a connection of "4" --- woo--wooo-wooooo. Psychic ability, lol.
    Last edited by Phoenixx9; 09-21-2020 at 01:28 PM.

  11. #71
    Fantastic Member GMikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    Here are some more Jean Grey/Phoenix Questions:

    1) When Jean wants to use her Phoenix powers, will she "change" into Phoenix, the way it was shown originally? It seemed to be a change the way they showed Carol changing into Ms Marvel in the beginning as well---a bolt of energy---- allowing a clothing and seeming personality change.

    2) When Jean, as Phoenix, uses her powers, will we see the huge energy Phoenix Raptor? Will Jean be surrounded by energy? ( I am soooo curious about the visual looks!)

    3) The original Phoenix story took place some 45 years ago now. Will this story take place in the past at that time? Or will it be set in the present?

    4) Slightly different question but still in the same vein, will Jean have just become Phoenix a few years ago and now time jump to the present or is the entire story happening presently regarding Jean and the Phoenix?
    Those are additional important and insightful questions, and I think I can clearly answer each.

    1. According to my knowledge, the way Jean Grey uses her Phoenix powers, is very reliant on depicting their psionic relationship. Jean Grey at first heavily relies on the Phoenix's voice, but it doesn't take long for that voice to grow more and more faint, Jean and Phoenix both grow mutual understanding of each other. This is the gradual oneness we see of the pair. Why I say all that? Cuz we get a duality in visualizing Jean's Phoenix powers. Most of the time, she will engage her green phoenix suit, and manifest the cosmic raptor upon uses of the Phoenix Force. Then there are times she's just in normal attire, but the energy of the Phoenix would become her as she engages its powers. On a few occasions, Jean would be engulfed in cosmic fire, fulling becoming the fire raptor itself, usually when displaying an enormous amount of power. A change in personality does occur, as the Phoenix surfaces a very collected, mystic persona is present and her voice packs in a powerful sound, letting you know, this is the Phoenix. However the Phoenix becomes liken to Jean's personality, and slowly melds into that experience, rather than projecting its own. (shit that was a long answer XD)

    2. So BOSS news, yes not only does she manifest an amazing Phoenix raptor, they just acquired a specialized graphics engine to detail the look of the Phoenix, and granting it a truly majestic look. This means, the energy won't be animated like the character animation, but using a special FX program, and... based on the prototype, its the best animated Phoenix ever.

    3. This totally takes place in the present. And then the time skip jumps us into... a very interesting version of the future. The future of this Universe/Multiverse, is going to be a bit convoluted, but still it makes room for something very awesome for fans to occur.

    4. It happens all in the "present". Jean Grey speaks of her earlier childhood experiences with this "firebird", then the X-Men form, then shenanigans happen to cause the Phoenix Saga to occur, thus Jean Grey then becomes Phoenix. The chief writer primarily... almost wants to "reboot" the entire lore of the Phoenix Force, with very little to do with canon (in terms of time frames). However, she wants to reshape Jean's relationship with Phoenix, and have it carry out in a "present-ish" time frame, allowing the Phoenix Trilogy in its entirety, be something relatable to all viewers and fans alike

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMikey View Post
    While... there's a majority that really want to bring Gambit/Rogue to the spotlight, I do think it'd be best for them to develop individually a bit, and then they gradually gravitate to each other. Aamof, how that can work is Rogue could have a crush on Angel or Wolverine (prolly Angel), and that situation is just rocky and we see its not working for either one. Due to a major turn in Gambit's character arc, it's been suggested for Gambit to be super flirtatious (for the sake of nuisance) with Jean Grey, building some foreshadowing for their roles in the future. However, later build up that Romy, and how that affects their character development.

    Due to the time skip occurring in The Phoenix Trilogy, they may need to solidify their liking to each other before hand, due to some stuff that happens later on. LOL there's definitely quite a bit of tough love between the two. Rogue definitely has an "empowerment" journey, and I like how different it is. She's already a tomboy sorta, but... its used as a mask. Events help Rogue to build her own confidence and assurance of self
    When I originally wrote my comment about another mutant interest for Rogue what I envisioned was a random mutant in the xmansion. Maybe a new throwaway character, not necessarily a named one simply to to not throw that mutant under the bus. But after reading your comment about Angel or Wolverine I'm actually inclined to say Wolverine would be a good choice and here's why.

    1. I don't think a no name mutant or even Angel would be high profile enough to create any kind of entertainment. It would be a waste of time to put Rogue, who has so much potential as a individual character, to spend her time in the series with someone we know will never beat out Gambit. Especially when Rogue has other, more action packed, stuff to do. So why not make the other potential suitor someone the audience can say "hey he might actually have a chance with Rogue." Or perhaps it's not even any kind of courting, it's just Rogue has a crush on Wolverine and likes his outdoor macho confidence. Similar to the good ol' boys she grew up with as a tomboy at the country hole kickin cans and stuff. And with her absorption powers she likes that Wolverine can regen so she would never hurt him. This could be a good way to do something that maybe, depending on fan reception, could actually be a threat to Rogue/Remy. Remy will actually have to be good enough for Rogue, not just the pushiest.

    2. I've said before Wolverine and Gambit is one of my favorite "almost friendships" they aren't super close but they are similar enough personalitywise to hang out. I'd love to give them more reason to interact. They like to chill and play cards maybe Logan gets teen Remy a beer or something idk.

    3. I think if they are adolsecents before the time skip (I'm guessing like Xmen evolution) I think a good avenue would be to portray how being an adolescent is. You said people want Gambit to flirt with Jean, well what if Gambit is just simply a flirt? I do like him flirting with Jean a bit as I used to ship them but maybe he flirts with both of them. But naturally Gambit and Rogue turn from their crushes from Jean and Logan to each other due to their actions, not just destiny. Like I said maybe Remy helping Rogue when she is at her worse shows her he's trustworthy and cares about more than just physical stuff. Even though he flirts he really does want her to be safe. I'm guessing no one will ship them at first because it's not really the perfect romance but the romance can grow from actions on both their parts. And their flirting and banter becomes a bit more focused on each other. Except Rogue still has that fear of her powers that isn't just going to go away. So maybe they just keep bantering and Rogue gets to toss Remy around a bit when he's acting like a knob and getting too cocky and stuff.

    And just a sidenote maybe clarify what "Tomboy as a mask" means? I mean to me tomboy just means I think Tomboy just means a girl who likes traditionally masculine activities. Getting dirty on 4x4s taking risks and hanging out with guys. i think it means they are just comfortable being tough. Doesn't mean they don't like being a lady at times. I think she hides her insecurities and masks them with violence or banter and acts tough but her being a tomboy is just her enjoying doing stuff guys are more often known for

    That's all I got for now. Obviously xmen is better as an action show and focusing on the action is what the audience will like. So stuff like this is to be sprinkled in if used. Not really the focus.
    Last edited by Gripstir; 09-21-2020 at 04:24 PM.

  13. #73
    Fantastic Member GMikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AppleJ View Post
    A few things I would probably keep in mind with writing Gambit and Rogue in the current era:

    Gambit pushes Rogue's boundaries because her boundaries stop her from getting what she really wants, but is too afraid to reach for. Some readers see this as him not respecting her boundaries, and in past examples they might be right at times. Given the modern lens with MeToo, it's important to demonstrate that Rogue is mutually interested and not afraid of or threatened by Gambit, but of herself. That he does back down when given a hard no, but also can playfully call her out to push herself. We need a Gambit who "Never goes where he's not invited." as so famously put in XTAS. He should be a charming scoundrel, not gross.

    Where Gambit challenges Rogue to take risks, she is a grounding force for him. She should help him want to be his better self and reach for a more heroic path. It would be great to see her showing him more empathy for his poorer choices in life and bad circumstances. That has been lacking in comics at times, but was well served in Evolution.

    As to Rogue's personalities, I would only caution against playing too closely into the "women be crazy" stereotype. It's a comic trope that has played out rather damagingly in the past where women become antagonists because they can't control their emotions. I think it's been an issue with Jean and Scarlet Witch as well.

    Rogue IS in her head kind of a lot for obvious reasons though. At least in comics, the key to control for her is purely psychological and that has been a pretty fascinating take. She will never be cured, so much as just having better days with more control.

    I love that Rogue is tough and practical and a bit of a tom boy. I wouldn't want to see her suddenly turn into a Jean or an Emma. She's not a princess. I love that she can mop the floor with most opponents and that Gambit loves this about her and loves a good tussle with her. But showing her softer side here and there is good too.

    That they can let their guards down for each other is another key in writing them. She doesn't have to be tough around him and he doesn't have to hide his true feelings.

    Definitely build them up individually first. A slow burn is what drew people into them in the 90s.
    Those are all WONDERFUL points you bring out, as Gambit and Rogue's relationship is crucial to the future of the X-Men's narrative.

    The chief writer put in different words as she states "Gambit is there to help Rogue "break barriers", so similarly to what you said, but I like how you detail that more. Gambit is a little scoundrel, not a slimeball lol, and can be pushy, but Rogue comes to realize that he's actually helping her overcome weakness which she masks with her tough girl persona. Pushing those boundaries is a good way to put it, yet all with respect. That line from XTAS is so important to understand that about Gambit. The point about Rogue fearing herself, becomes something very important to Gambit's development. Just as he helped her, she winds up being the one who helps him, upon his transformation as a character.

    The factor of Rogue being a grounding force for Gambit, also plays into what happens to his character much later on. Upon his evolution, his sense of self is greatly challenged, and she brings him back to his true person, as well as serve as a ground force for... someone else occupying Gambit's mind.

    We've had a number of fans, even from here mention the "women be crazy" stereotype, and that's so not what's happening with Rogue. First of all, the CHIEF writer, is a woman, so... respect to women is important to her. Even when it came to Jean Grey, a character she's actually no fan of, stated "Jean Grey as Phoenix needs to be written with respect, and not a man fantasy, like so many writers who've gotten a hold of her has done". The personalities thing... is something we're looking at with much care.

    The chief writer is actually the first person stating she wants to write her as a practical, thoughtful tomboy (as this story starts them of as kids, then grow up upon time skip event). She feels that part of Rogue's character development should be that her "tough girl" persona, stems a lot from her inability to be intimate with others, so... despite that hurting her, she masks her feelings with her tough cookie mentality, and it serves as a way for her to be detached. As we've discussed Gambit's role in that, and helping her to overcome it. Funny you state "I don't want Rogue to become a Jean, she's no princess"...

    SPOILER... For a special occasion in which "Uncle Chuck/Xavier" takes them to, Gambit bought some secret gifts for Rogue. One being a dress, and the other he gives her in secret, is a necklace with an akoya pearl (presumably he stole), and tells her to be a princess, for one night at least. This moment serves as a major turning point for Rogue, and is the first time, she starts letting her guard down and opening up with Gambit. Life made Rogue strong and independent, but Gambit touches her soft side and helps her overcome... in which she does for him much, much later.

  14. #74
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    Thank you for all those great answers, GMikey!

    I am glad you mentioned the mystical aspect to the Phoenix, which was going to be my next question.

    1) Originally, we got some very limited mystical component mention but that was about it---when Jean as Dark Phoenix battled the X-Men in Central Park. When DP blasted Storm with "Black Flames", Cyclops, through their unique psionic rapport, states "mystical alluions I can't understand".

    2) Then when Dark Phoenix used her power to leave Earth orbit, Dr Strange, Silver Surfer and even Eternity noticed her.

    For many years now I have often wondered about perhaps some mystical component to the Phoenix/Phoenix Force.

    From your explanation to my last #1 question, it sounds like there might be some explanation forthcoming regarding some mysticism/mystical connection.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AppleJ View Post
    A few things I would probably keep in mind with writing Gambit and Rogue in the current era:

    Gambit pushes Rogue's boundaries because her boundaries stop her from getting what she really wants, but is too afraid to reach for. Some readers see this as him not respecting her boundaries, and in past examples they might be right at times. Given the modern lens with MeToo, it's important to demonstrate that Rogue is mutually interested and not afraid of or threatened by Gambit, but of herself. That he does back down when given a hard no, but also can playfully call her out to push herself. We need a Gambit who "Never goes where he's not invited." as so famously put in XTAS. He should be a charming scoundrel, not gross.

    Where Gambit challenges Rogue to take risks, she is a grounding force for him. She should help him want to be his better self and reach for a more heroic path. It would be great to see her showing him more empathy for his poorer choices in life and bad circumstances. That has been lacking in comics at times, but was well served in Evolution.

    As to Rogue's personalities, I would only caution against playing too closely into the "women be crazy" stereotype. It's a comic trope that has played out rather damagingly in the past where women become antagonists because they can't control their emotions. I think it's been an issue with Jean and Scarlet Witch as well.

    Rogue IS in her head kind of a lot for obvious reasons though. At least in comics, the key to control for her is purely psychological and that has been a pretty fascinating take. She will never be cured, so much as just having better days with more control.

    I love that Rogue is tough and practical and a bit of a tom boy. I wouldn't want to see her suddenly turn into a Jean or an Emma. She's not a princess. I love that she can mop the floor with most opponents and that Gambit loves this about her and loves a good tussle with her. But showing her softer side here and there is good too.

    That they can let their guards down for each other is another key in writing them. She doesn't have to be tough around him and he doesn't have to hide his true feelings.

    Definitely build them up individually first. A slow burn is what drew people into them in the 90s.
    I agree with most of this. I'd like to add a couple points. I don't think the modern era is much different in terms of romance. I think men have smartened up in terms of what's harassment. I think this scene from the original series (starts about 0:35) is a good indication of scene that encapsulates their banter but still works today https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-WFPWs6tMU8 like in modern era after she throws him out of the car modern views would dictate when she physically throws him out then he jumps over the wall, that's kinda harassment. But I think that's kinda what we like about Gambit. He never quits and doesn't know when to stop.

    I think Gambit is a thief and does go where he's not wanted. He grew up in the streets and learned take what you want. I think there are limits like no cornering her, or touching her waist or doing stuff like that. But he would be great to break down her boundaries but a good aspect would be her teaching him some boundaries for a balance. I think he can be a scoundrel at first but it's the actions he takes later on like really helping her when she's in pain that shows that can overshadow those problematic aspects. I really just don't want a Excalibur neutered Gambit again and I'm trying to actively fight against that lol. Gambit needs some edge and he needs to be distrustful of her too. He's an orphan who grew up a theif. He doesn't know what boundaries are yet. he should approach her at first like he doesn't believe it will be a long term thing. But it grows into that
    Last edited by Gripstir; 09-21-2020 at 04:29 PM.

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