X-men / x-universe canon / fanon think tank

[Gripstir]

We've had a number of fans, even from here mention the "women be crazy" stereotype, and that's so not what's happening with Rogue. First of all, the CHIEF writer, is a woman, so... respect to women is important to her. Even when it came to Jean Grey, a character she's actually no fan of, stated "Jean Grey as Phoenix needs to be written with respect, and not a man fantasy, like so many writers who've gotten a hold of her has done". The personalities thing... is something we're looking at with much care.

The chief writer is actually the first person stating she wants to write her as a practical, thoughtful tomboy (as this story starts them of as kids, then grow up upon time skip event). She feels that part of Rogue's character development should be that her "tough girl" persona, stems a lot from her inability to be intimate with others, so... despite that hurting her, she masks her feelings with her tough cookie mentality, and it serves as a way for her to be detached. As we've discussed Gambit's role in that, and helping her to overcome it. Funny you state "I don't want Rogue to become a Jean, she's no princess"... .

So a few things I'm curious about

1. The male fantasy thing is often used too broadly. The male fantasy thing is a term meant to be about guys who want girl characters to not have enough development and should simply sit pretty and not talk or be realistic. But the way people often use it is in a way to say female characters shouldn't be attractive or at all sexual because if a girl is portrayed as flirty or attractive or sexual in any form then male audience members won't take the characters growth seriously. So just curious in the lead writer's eyes what does male fantasy mean? I mean it's fiction. Everyone wants real characters in fiction but I think when people say "not male fantasy" they end up writing overly defensive females who view male attention as somehow hurtful to female characters. Which I disagree with a little bit
2. I said in the other comment but want to reiterate. Rogue being a tomboy as a mask is a concerning statement. I don't think there's anything anti feminine about being a tomboy. Just because someone likes to roll around in the dirt or anything doesn't mean it has to be a mask. I mean I guess it would depend but girls can be just as into guy stuff as guys. I don't think there needs to be a switch. Rogue can simply just enjoy tomboy stuff but want to get dressed up too. So maybe I'm just misunderstanding this part a bit

[Phoenixx9]

Going back to Jean Grey Phoenix, I am curious to learn more about the M'Kraan Crystal.

1) Is there going to be anything about the M'Kraan Crystal?

2) Will there be anything about The Shi'ar connection to the M'Kraan Crystal and/or the Phoenix Force?

3) I have always wanted more info on the M'Kraan Crystal's Guardians, Jahf and Modt. Will we see them and/or learn anything about them or the additional (so-far-as-yet-unseen) Guardians?

[GMikey]

So a few things I'm curious about

1. The male fantasy thing is often used too broadly. The male fantasy thing is a term meant to be about guys who want girl characters to not have enough development and should simply sit pretty and not talk or be realistic. But the way people often use it is in a way to say female characters shouldn't be attractive or at all sexual because if a girl is portrayed as flirty or attractive or sexual in any form then male audience members won't take the characters growth seriously. So just curious in the lead writer's eyes what does male fantasy mean? I mean it's fiction. Everyone wants real characters in fiction but I think when people say "not male fantasy" they end up writing overly defensive females who view male attention as somehow hurtful to female characters. Which I disagree with a little bit
2. I said in the other comment but want to reiterate. Rogue being a tomboy as a mask is a concerning statement. I don't think there's anything anti feminine about being a tomboy. Just because someone likes to roll around in the dirt or anything doesn't mean it has to be a mask. I mean I guess it would depend but girls can be just as into guy stuff as guys. I don't think there needs to be a switch. Rogue can simply just enjoy tomboy stuff but want to get dressed up too. So maybe I'm just misunderstanding this part a bit

Thanks for correcting me on the tomboy thing. I said that wrong as I meant to say, Rogue uses her "tough cookie" persona to mask at lot of her feelings. I try to answer to many, many inquires from multiple forums and have done a solid job at making some mispeaks LOL

The chief writer is very anti-female stereotypes, and has been a fan of Rogue's independent nature, and sees her as a symbol of woman not defined by society, but her own will. However, its on the table that part of Rogue's development, is the denial of certain feelings, not wanting to open up about what hurts her so. Masking her weaknesses with her strengths. Just because you focus all on what makes you strong, doesn't mean you're without things to overcome, and that would be the point about Rogue's story. Even the part about Gambit asking for her to "be his princess for the night" Rogue took initial offense, but quickly realizes Gambit only wants her to feel wanted and admired. Its not about... Rogue NOT wanting to dress up, as it is a moment meant to show how much Gambit wants to make sure she's happy, and feels wanted inspite of her powers. Rogue is a proud loner, but Gambit is there to let her know, that she's not "alone". The chief writer has mentioned her own personal experiences to parallel Rogue's narrative, and is a reason she delves a lot into astrology and psychology.

The male fantasy thing... so one of the reasons the chief writer actually HATED Jean Grey... is because she felt Jean Grey turned into the trope known as "the creator's pet", or in her words, developed the "Ma-Ti Syndrome". She explained that she first noticed what today would be called "the creator's pet" cliche, with Ma-Ti from Captain Planet, in that the writers had a strange allure to making this character an unreasonable, uncalled for, center of all attention in the series. Jean Grey, even in my opinion, fits this to the tee. The chief writer states, Jean Grey has received the royal treatment as a character in the Marvel Universe, is "over glorified", and outshines all the other mutants. Her association with the Phoenix, as per her opinion is a toxic one. She feels in a story about "team work" and "team players" each character needs to be written with "narrative equality". Jean Grey, is put on a cosmic pedestal of worship and importance over all others by the writers. She states that the argument from Phoenix fans that no one can be Phoenix other than Jean Grey, stems from "deliberate" poor writing of other Phoenix hosts, all in effort to make Jean Grey the one and only one, true of the Phoenix. She also feels that the argument that Rachel and Hope were awesome Phoenix hosts, are irrelevant as to her, the writer, she feels they are simply variations of the same character (Jean Grey). I admire though that, she's taken all that she's hated about Jean Grey, as her reason to write her very well, and WANT to give her character a better, relatable narrative

This brings us to her determining that, Jean Grey is a "male fantasy" thing. Its hard to say from my perspective, but its not something I'd rule out. She states that the writers have a thing for "hot, sexy redheads" and despite Jean supposed to be a heroine, and a woman of power, it doesn't take away the fanboyism she feels is present, and that it is a form of fantasy for them. She states she knows this from artists she knew personally that had a thing for drawing complex and detailed illustrations of powerful females, and it being a thing of fantasy for them.

Is that true or not? I do believe in the "creator's pet" part, that... the writers seem to love Jean Grey, and enjoy writing about her as Phoenix, more than writing some of the other characters in such depth, it seems. I personally can't... or don't see the "male fantasy" thing, but like... I do see writers' favoritism, no doubt there.

[GMikey]

Thank you for all those great answers, GMikey!

I am glad you mentioned the mystical aspect to the Phoenix, which was going to be my next question.

1) Originally, we got some very limited mystical component mention but that was about it---when Jean as Dark Phoenix battled the X-Men in Central Park. When DP blasted Storm with "Black Flames", Cyclops, through their unique psionic rapport, states "mystical alluions I can't understand".

2) Then when Dark Phoenix used her power to leave Earth orbit, Dr Strange, Silver Surfer and even Eternity noticed her.

For many years now I have often wondered about perhaps some mystical component to the Phoenix/Phoenix Force.

From your explanation to my last #1 question, it sounds like there might be some explanation forthcoming regarding some mysticism/mystical connection.

LOL of course. And yes, there's a great deal of mysticism, metaphysics and all kinds of interesting stuff to be presented in this series. I vagely remember the thing with the black flames... I'm not entirely sure how or if that's employed or re-imagined... we'll see, especially as a lot more fans get involved with The Phoenix Trilogy.

Interesting that you mention how high level mystics, and cosmic entities took notice of DP, because that plays a major role into, the "???" Phoenix Saga. Dr Strange definitely plays an interesting, and deep level part in the entirety of the Phoenix Trilogy. Something discussed a lot IS historic phoenix mythos being employed. No one amongst our current circle, is more versed with mythology as the chief writer. She stated that, the comic writers failed to go past the Phoenix's resurrection mythos, and hopes to shed light on how extensive the phoenix is, from a mythological perspective. It's going to be good, I know that

Going back to Jean Grey Phoenix, I am curious to learn more about the M'Kraan Crystal.

1) Is there going to be anything about the M'Kraan Crystal?

2) Will there be anything about The Shi'ar connection to the M'Kraan Crystal and/or the Phoenix Force?

3) I have always wanted more info on the M'Kraan Crystal's Guardians, Jahf and Modt. Will we see them and/or learn anything about them or the additional (so-far-as-yet-unseen) Guardians?

1. The M'Kraan Crystal will have loads of moments, and much, much deeper exploration than any of the animated series, and definitely the film. To go ahead and answer Question 2 right here, the M'Kraan Crystal will be VISUALLY explored during the Phoenix Saga, and will be our first time (prolly in ALL animation) that we see into the White Hot Room. The experience is quite unique, according to some discussion I've been in, and is a great way to navigate and learn about the Crystal, in gradual bits and pieces. So, we're only going to be starting off with trace amounts of visions and flashback-like presentations of the Shi'ar's history, and the Phoenix's role where the M'Kraan Crystal is concerned. We don't even learn the names of the place Jean Grey flies through inside the stone, creating a lot more mystery to be discovered later. Jean Grey learns everything incoherently, and has to tune her mind into the Phoenix's, and she learns psionically what to do. Much more on those topics are explored in the future, revealing more and more mystery.

3. HA, in a discussion with someone in the primary think tank, Jahf and Modt were mentioned! As was the flying pink lady with the wings. There's also exploration of various locations, like the Crystal Palace, and the Orb, and other residents too, such as other Phoenix hosts. There's gonna be some new additions to support... what's introduced later on in the Phoenix Trilogy

[Phoenixx9]

Interesting that you mention how high level mystics, and cosmic entities took notice of DP, because that plays a major role into, the "???" Phoenix Saga. Dr Strange definitely plays an interesting, and deep level part in the entirety of the Phoenix Trilogy. Something discussed a lot IS historic phoenix mythos being employed. No one amongst our current circle, is more versed with mythology as the chief writer. She stated that, the comic writers failed to go past the Phoenix's resurrection mythos, and hopes to shed light on how extensive the phoenix is, from a mythological perspective. It's going to be good, I know that


3. HA, in a discussion with someone in the primary think tank, Jahf and Modt were mentioned! As was the flying pink lady with the wings. There's also exploration of various locations, like the Crystal Palace, and the Orb, and other residents too, such as other Phoenix hosts. There's gonna be some new additions to support... what's introduced later on in the Phoenix Trilogy

LOL, I told you I was psychic!

Honestly, this all sounds so good, I cannot wait to learn more and to see it!

[GMikey]

LOL, I told you I was psychic!

Honestly, this all sounds so good, I cannot wait to learn more and to see it!

I'll announce tomorrow about some news I got, everyone can discuss it

[AppleJ]

Those are all WONDERFUL points you bring out, as Gambit and Rogue's relationship is crucial to the future of the X-Men's narrative.

The chief writer put in different words as she states "Gambit is there to help Rogue "break barriers", so similarly to what you said, but I like how you detail that more. Gambit is a little scoundrel, not a slimeball lol, and can be pushy, but Rogue comes to realize that he's actually helping her overcome weakness which she masks with her tough girl persona. Pushing those boundaries is a good way to put it, yet all with respect. That line from XTAS is so important to understand that about Gambit. The point about Rogue fearing herself, becomes something very important to Gambit's development. Just as he helped her, she winds up being the one who helps him, upon his transformation as a character.

The factor of Rogue being a grounding force for Gambit, also plays into what happens to his character much later on. Upon his evolution, his sense of self is greatly challenged, and she brings him back to his true person, as well as serve as a ground force for... someone else occupying Gambit's mind.

We've had a number of fans, even from here mention the "women be crazy" stereotype, and that's so not what's happening with Rogue. First of all, the CHIEF writer, is a woman, so... respect to women is important to her. Even when it came to Jean Grey, a character she's actually no fan of, stated "Jean Grey as Phoenix needs to be written with respect, and not a man fantasy, like so many writers who've gotten a hold of her has done". The personalities thing... is something we're looking at with much care.

The chief writer is actually the first person stating she wants to write her as a practical, thoughtful tomboy (as this story starts them of as kids, then grow up upon time skip event). She feels that part of Rogue's character development should be that her "tough girl" persona, stems a lot from her inability to be intimate with others, so... despite that hurting her, she masks her feelings with her tough cookie mentality, and it serves as a way for her to be detached. As we've discussed Gambit's role in that, and helping her to overcome it. Funny you state "I don't want Rogue to become a Jean, she's no princess"...

SPOILER... For a special occasion in which "Uncle Chuck/Xavier" takes them to, Gambit bought some secret gifts for Rogue. One being a dress, and the other he gives her in secret, is a necklace with an akoya pearl (presumably he stole), and tells her to be a princess, for one night at least. This moment serves as a major turning point for Rogue, and is the first time, she starts letting her guard down and opening up with Gambit. Life made Rogue strong and independent, but Gambit touches her soft side and helps her overcome... in which she does for him much, much later.

Excellent! Sounds like this project is in good hands.

[Sutekh]

Going back to Jean Grey Phoenix, I am curious to learn more about the M'Kraan Crystal.

1) Is there going to be anything about the M'Kraan Crystal?

2) Will there be anything about The Shi'ar connection to the M'Kraan Crystal and/or the Phoenix Force?

3) I have always wanted more info on the M'Kraan Crystal's Guardians, Jahf and Modt. Will we see them and/or learn anything about them or the additional (so-far-as-yet-unseen) Guardians?

I wondered if, at some point in the last however-many-years the M'Krann crystal has changed because of containing the Phoenix Force. That's been it's purpose for aeons. Now it's loose. Does the M'Krann crystal have some sort of sense of purpose, after all this time? Is the crystal angry about that? Lonely? Does it want the PF back? Is it relieved? Is it just a rock? Did it get destroyed when the PF 'busted out?'

I also wonder about the D'bari. Were any off-world, perhaps doing some sort of ambassadorial thing, or on a trade mission, and found out that their entire world was eaten, including their family and clan? Was there a 'psychic death-scream' of sorts? I could see a D'bari survivor who awoken into vast psychic power upon the death of his race, as their cry of fear and confusion was cut short in his head, but echoes there forever, which he can now project to others as an overwhelming psychic attack. His goal in life, to find the Phoenix host, whoever that might be, and to project into their head the death-cry of his people, all their rage and fear and pain. A futile goal, perhaps, but he's crackers.

Lots of fun potential there.

[Phoenixx9]

I wondered if, at some point in the last however-many-years the M'Krann crystal has changed because of containing the Phoenix Force. That's been it's purpose for aeons. Now it's loose. Does the M'Krann crystal have some sort of sense of purpose, after all this time? Is the crystal angry about that? Lonely? Does it want the PF back? Is it relieved?

I also wonder about the D'bari. Were any off-world, perhaps doing some sort of ambassadorial thing, or on a trade mission, and found out that their entire world was eaten, including their family and clan? Was there a 'psychic death-scream' of sorts? I could see a D'bari survivor who awoken into vast psychic power upon the death of his race, as their cry of fear and confusion was cut short in his head, but echoes there forever, which he can now project to others as an overwhelming psychic attack. His goal in life, to find the Phoenix host, whoever that might be, and to project into their head the death-cry of his people, all their rage and fear and pain. A futile goal, perhaps, but he's crackers.

Lots of fun potential there.

There was already an X-Men story about some D'Bari who survived and found Jean---this was probaby about 2000 or before.

[Sandmans_Raven]

There was already an X-Men story about some D'Bari who survived and found Jean---this was probaby about 2000 or before.

Yeah, this was part of the Maximum Security storyline. I can't remember their story exactly, but it sounds like what Sutekh is describing is Vuk.

[Phoenixx9]

Yeah, this was part of the Maximum Security storyline. I can't remember their story exactly, but it sounds like what Sutekh is describing is Vuk.

Yes, I believe it was Vuk. This story was already done. But I never liked Jean becoming Dark Phoenix and destroying their planet.

Hopefully, this new vision will eliminate that altogether!

[GMikey]

Excellent! Sounds like this project is in good hands.

Yes not just "our" hands, also in the hands of the fans (with some... experienced writers to make it cohesive), that's why I have much confidence in it!

I wondered if, at some point in the last however-many-years the M'Krann crystal has changed because of containing the Phoenix Force. That's been it's purpose for aeons. Now it's loose. Does the M'Krann crystal have some sort of sense of purpose, after all this time? Is the crystal angry about that? Lonely? Does it want the PF back? Is it relieved? Is it just a rock? Did it get destroyed when the PF 'busted out?'

I also wonder about the D'bari. Were any off-world, perhaps doing some sort of ambassadorial thing, or on a trade mission, and found out that their entire world was eaten, including their family and clan? Was there a 'psychic death-scream' of sorts? I could see a D'bari survivor who awoken into vast psychic power upon the death of his race, as their cry of fear and confusion was cut short in his head, but echoes there forever, which he can now project to others as an overwhelming psychic attack. His goal in life, to find the Phoenix host, whoever that might be, and to project into their head the death-cry of his people, all their rage and fear and pain. A futile goal, perhaps, but he's crackers.

Lots of fun potential there.

The WHOLE mythos of the Phoenix Force and M'kraan Crystal is being overhauled. Now, there's not much mention of the Phoenix's relationship with the stone yet, but based on some pieces I know, the M'Kraan Crystal is being treated as a mystical realm, outside of all realities, yet is a nexus of all realities. The chief writer actually named a pink sapphire of hers "M'Kraan" and it does favor the stone. I bring that up, cuz she wants to use crystallographic mysticism in reshaping the M'Kraan Crystal's mythos.

The whole story with the D'Bari is actually up for debate. Some writers fan of the XTAS era don't see a need to, while others such as chief, feels the D'Bari's plight adds weight to the entirety of the Phoenix's story and what comes in The <TBA> Phoenix Saga. Should we employ the D'Bari, discussions were made about the off world and remnant members joining the plight of the Skrull (based on MCU vers), some turning to intergalactic crime (pirates), and others developing a deep enmity towards the Phoenix, and seeks revenge (which would play into Jean Grey, and Rachel Summers' proposed latter stories). So what you have mentioned there, is in line with some ideas being proposed, I'll definitely mention your idea, should we go this route

There was already an X-Men story about some D'Bari who survived and found Jean---this was probaby about 2000 or before.

Yeah, this was part of the Maximum Security storyline. I can't remember their story exactly, but it sounds like what Sutekh is describing is Vuk.

Yes, I believe it was Vuk. This story was already done. But I never liked Jean becoming Dark Phoenix and destroying their planet.

Hopefully, this new vision will eliminate that altogether!

That may have been the character they were discussing then. I'm not sure.

Currently its up in the air with the D'Bari demise. Some want to include it, others want to showcase DP's destruction elsewhere. The chief writer is one in favor of that plot, but would rewrite it to not be a full genocide. She states this would come up again during the Trial of Gambit, and as he tries to appeal to the team after his history with Sinister is revealed; he uses the DP's actions, and how the team supported Jean Grey despite DP, as a reason for the team to forgive him. Of course it only further infuriates Scott for Gambit to compare his association with the massacre with Jean Grey as DP, and he's expelled anyway. This point is crucial to the story, as it challenges everyone's trust in each other, it highlights Scott's (lack of) judgement, and marks the beginning of the X-Men having serious internal conflict amongst themselves.

And as mentioned, the D'Bari's plot provides potential storylines of revenge, in which chiefly Rachel Summers would wind up facing (in latter stories).

[GMikey]

So right now we are project to upload the first two shorts for the holidays. Good news about that is the Project comes out in the open in FULL, very early.

That's gonna mean the plot of Arc I (the Avengers) will be fully revealed, allowing US to start actually coming up with REAL plots and ideas for episodes!

The current time of projection for the announcement, and official fan brainstorming, is between October and November. There will be a VIP screening of the first two shorts so... I may be able to leak small clips if possible ^_^

Around this time, we'll also get official artwork posted, and even though... they're all gonna look like Chibis (cuz it starts with them as kids) a few adult versions will be posted too, to show what our heroes will look like after the Time Skip, and moving forward.

The adult vers. mentioned were Captain America, Iron Man, Black Panther, Spider-Man, Doctor Strange, and for the Mutants, Wolverine, Jean Grey, Cyclops, Storm, Thunderbird?, Sabretooth, and Mystique. I'm not sure all those are gonna be posted at once. I'm certain they aren't but still... that'd be more than awesome to see!

OH, now around Christmas time, the chief writer WANTS to give us an animated short like... 30sec clip of the Phoenix Force's appearance, using the new FX program she just acquired. She's hoping it WILL happen, and asks for everyone to send her some "virtual love" to make it happen LOL

That's all I know for now... so... I'll update later on

[Gripstir]

So right now we are project to upload the first two shorts for the holidays. Good news about that is the Project comes out in the open in FULL, very early.

That's gonna mean the plot of Arc I (the Avengers) will be fully revealed, allowing US to start actually coming up with REAL plots and ideas for episodes!

The current time of projection for the announcement, and official fan brainstorming, is between October and November. There will be a VIP screening of the first two shorts so... I may be able to leak small clips if possible ^_^

Around this time, we'll also get official artwork posted, and even though... they're all gonna look like Chibis (cuz it starts with them as kids) a few adult versions will be posted too, to show what our heroes will look like after the Time Skip, and moving forward.

The adult vers. mentioned were Captain America, Iron Man, Black Panther, Spider-Man, Doctor Strange, and for the Mutants, Wolverine, Jean Grey, Cyclops, Storm, Thunderbird?, Sabretooth, and Mystique. I'm not sure all those are gonna be posted at once. I'm certain they aren't but still... that'd be more than awesome to see!

OH, now around Christmas time, the chief writer WANTS to give us an animated short like... 30sec clip of the Phoenix Force's appearance, using the new FX program she just acquired. She's hoping it WILL happen, and asks for everyone to send her some "virtual love" to make it happen LOL

That's all I know for now... so... I'll update later on

Sounds good

[Phoenixx9]

So right now we are project to upload the first two shorts for the holidays. Good news about that is the Project comes out in the open in FULL, very early.

That's gonna mean the plot of Arc I (the Avengers) will be fully revealed, allowing US to start actually coming up with REAL plots and ideas for episodes!

The current time of projection for the announcement, and official fan brainstorming, is between October and November. There will be a VIP screening of the first two shorts so... I may be able to leak small clips if possible ^_^

Around this time, we'll also get official artwork posted, and even though... they're all gonna look like Chibis (cuz it starts with them as kids) a few adult versions will be posted too, to show what our heroes will look like after the Time Skip, and moving forward.

The adult vers. mentioned were Captain America, Iron Man, Black Panther, Spider-Man, Doctor Strange, and for the Mutants, Wolverine, Jean Grey, Cyclops, Storm, Thunderbird?, Sabretooth, and Mystique. I'm not sure all those are gonna be posted at once. I'm certain they aren't but still... that'd be more than awesome to see!

OH, now around Christmas time, the chief writer WANTS to give us an animated short like... 30sec clip of the Phoenix Force's appearance, using the new FX program she just acquired. She's hoping it WILL happen, and asks for everyone to send her some "virtual love" to make it happen LOL

That's all I know for now... so... I'll update later on

Sounds great!

A Christmas showing of the Phoenix Force would indeed be a Christmas present! I love that idea.

Having and sending lots of virtual love for this project!