Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 89
  1. #61

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alphaxman View Post
    I admit I don't know how that would work, because there is such a large gap between Selene and A (maybe around 5 thousand years?), but possibly with each following generation the time between shrinks. I don't know why I'm musing... we'll never find out, because no one at Marvel gives a flip about them.
    The Externals are one of those concepts from the 90's that was never really fleshed out. As for the 'generations', it doesn't really work like that either, as in NM 1, Hickman specified six generations; the ancients(which would include all of the Externals), the elders(not sure what the cut off point is, but I assume this covers the Victorians like Mystique/Sabes/Logan up to Magneto and Xavier), the 05, the other X-Men, the school squads, and then the modern Krakoans. So, maybe 'first of his generation' for A refers to, let's say, the 'historical' era(Sumer and KMT onwards; recorded civilization). Selene is from the Hyborian Age, something like 17,000 years ago, whereas En Sabah Nur is from about 5,000 years ago.
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  2. #62

    Default

    I want to like this book, but it just doesn't gel for some reason. These last two issues have been better, but it still doesn't quite work.

    I'm fine with Rictor being shifted to more of a real earthbender(and now also lavabender) instead of the vibration path he started on, but you know Magma and Petra would be pissed if any writer cared about them.

    As for the Externals, eh, never really liked them anyways. Candra even. Selene is of course magnificent and deeply underutilized, so I am glad they kept her, but I wonder why they kept Gideon? His power mimicry for a later plot convenience or something else? Does he even have any notable stories beyond his Liefeld début days?
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  3. #63
    Incredible Member frostedemma's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    765

    Default

    I read in an interview somewhere with the x writers that tini loves fantasy and wanted to incorporate it in xos so i guess thats why the book is there lmao. But honestly the problem with excalibur it that if you take out the xos build up there's no plot or story? X-men feels cohesive because hickman doesn't use the book solely to tie up everything happening in the other titles but he also has a story to tell which excalibur doesn't feel like its trying to convey anything but easter eggs and clues about x of swords. And its the same thing with marauders only the writing is even more abysmal. It's like tini is scared to accidentally spoil or give us too big of a hint and ruin the secrecy or whatever but either way she's not very good at the gardener approach. Maybe after xos we'll finally get a plot and a narrative... Anywho these x writers need to stop trying to titillate us and tell the damn story alright I'm getting tired.

  4. #64
    Mighty Member Captain Nash's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,061

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by frostedemma View Post
    I read in an interview somewhere with the x writers that tini loves fantasy and wanted to incorporate it in xos so i guess thats why the book is there lmao. But honestly the problem with excalibur it that if you take out the xos build up there's no plot or story? X-men feels cohesive because hickman doesn't use the book solely to tie up everything happening in the other titles but he also has a story to tell which excalibur doesn't feel like its trying to convey anything but easter eggs and clues about x of swords. And its the same thing with marauders only the writing is even more abysmal. It's like tini is scared to accidentally spoil or give us too big of a hint and ruin the secrecy or whatever but either way she's not very good at the gardener approach. Maybe after xos we'll finally get a plot and a narrative... Anywho these x writers need to stop trying to titillate us and tell the damn story alright I'm getting tired.

    Thank you for all this, it sums up much of how I feel. I personally disagree about Marauders but everything else I do agree with you on. Excalibur especially. This issue was good, my favorite of the series so far. But the book has just been meandering, yes the overall theme seems to be magic related but where is the story actually going? I swear if this book didn't have my overall favorite cast, I'd have dropped it already.

  5. #65
    Mighty Member pkingdom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Posts
    1,880

    Default

    It almost feels insulting at this point to call this Excalibur, since the protagonists are running roughshod over the characters and concepts that Excalibur is supposed to be about. I can't even say it feels like a 6 issue mini stretched to 12 issues, because I don't think there's enough plot or characterization to fill 6 issues.

  6. #66
    Incredible Member frostedemma's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    765

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nash View Post
    Thank you for all this, it sums up much of how I feel. I personally disagree about Marauders but everything else I do agree with you on. Excalibur especially. This issue was good, my favorite of the series so far. But the book has just been meandering, yes the overall theme seems to be magic related but where is the story actually going? I swear if this book didn't have my overall favorite cast, I'd have dropped it already.
    It has been bothering me for a while and I was finally able to it into words (with horrible punctuation lol). But another thing that bothers me about excalibur now that I think about it, is that I wouldn't mind it half as much that the book is a set up for xos if tini actually took the time to properly introduce and develop/explain the magic the team is dealing with instead of laying it thick with the mystical tarot mumbo jumbo and the otherworld when we as readers just finally understood how krakoa works and apocalypse history in all of it.

    It's supposed to be similar or bear some resemblance to d&d apparently but *insert gif of dolores* it doesn't look like anything to me

  7. #67
    Astonishing Member Hulkout42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    2,910

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Psy-lock View Post
    This book still feels like an Apocalypse solo with the rest of the team walking in by accident.
    That sums it up for me, it isn't an Excalibur book, it;s his book just miss labeled.

  8. #68
    Astonishing Member Hulkout42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    2,910

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ChronoRogue View Post
    To be honest, Tini actually set up a good plot point in issue 5 to tie Gambit and Rogue to the story more. Rogue killing Apocalypse should've had more severe political consequences. Not only he is an extremely powerful mutant, both in power and influence, but he's a Council Member. Why wasn't she punished for killing him? I know he wanted it but still...

    Tini could have used that as a plot point to manipulate Rogue and Gambit more clearly into the team. Have them keep Apocalpypse's resurrection a secret, maybe using Rogue's long-forgotten connection to Hope to buy them a favor from the Five, and have Apocalypse blackmail them into helping him in Otherworld. Not only would this have increased tension but it would give Rogue & Gambit an understandable reason to be doing Poccy's deeds instead of sacrificing their intelligence to make story ends meet.

    Mauraders is understandly setting up a big coup for Sebastion and seems to understand that killing a Council member is big deal.

    I still don't really got any idea on how Jubilee would've been brought in but her addition to the book is still questionable at this point. Jubilee I think fits a book like X-Factor or New Mutants more. I would've added Pixie (Welsh but still got a connection to magic) instead.
    Here's the thing, Sebastian acted like he knows something is going to happen or he wouldn't have made a show of coming to her return party, so really that feels like he doesn't care because he knows he is screwed either way and may have an ace in the whole for went it comes. Here we see Apocalypse killing half of the External, encroaching upon Otherworld, manipulating the others and dradding the nation into war...and while they say he will lose something does it feel like it will be something substantial? I mean aside from throwing in with Sabertooth and possibly Shaw in the hole what could they really do to him? I mean don't Xavier, Lensherr and Moira need him as well?

  9. #69
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,965

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkout42 View Post
    Here's the thing, Sebastian acted like he knows something is going to happen or he wouldn't have made a show of coming to her return party, so really that feels like he doesn't care because he knows he is screwed either way and may have an ace in the whole for went it comes. Here we see Apocalypse killing half of the External, encroaching upon Otherworld, manipulating the others and dradding the nation into war...and while they say he will lose something does it feel like it will be something substantial? I mean aside from throwing in with Sabertooth and possibly Shaw in the hole what could they really do to him? I mean don't Xavier, Lensherr and Moira need him as well?
    They only really need Apocalypse in so much that he doesn't become a threat to the longevity of Krakoa. If at any point in time that stops being true they could just put him in the hole or kill him off and blacklist him from Ressurections. Although considering he's an External that's a temporary solution.

    Still it's a 22 part event some curious to see what kind of consequences apocalypse faces at the end of this event.

    He did just kind of fling Krakoa into a war they didn't ask to be in.

  10. #70
    Incredible Member Technopriest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    981

    Default

    Apocalypse just took all of the characters agencies from them. And don’t get me wrong, that’s part of his character, he is a master manipulator after all. My problem is the fact that the cast doesn’t react to any of that, oh they will complain and moan about it, but then just follow through with what he wants them to do, which is absurd considering the history that they have with him. They are all interchangeable, Rictor is just a collection of convenient powers for Apocalypse to use, the rest of them just fall in line. The other titles might have to follow the general theme laid down by DOX, but the characters are still allowed to have agency respecting their decisions. This is an Apocalypse solo which is fair, but if that was the intention from the beginning he should have been given a cast of characters that would have worked better to play second fiddle to him, not established characters. Rictor is about the only one whose purpose is clear (and is more about his powers than his character) but the rest of them are completely interchangeable.

  11. #71
    Ultimate Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    10,405

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by king of hybrids View Post
    Depending on when this takes place in relation to CA, Selene’s probably in relatively deep doodoo for A) breaking the first law a lot, B) Squandering whatever stake Krakoa had in the Power Elite and C) resurrected the OG Red Skull
    That story takes place before she came to Krakoa

  12. #72
    Incredible Member Technopriest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    981

    Default

    And that's the thing, Tini could have written a logical explanation to the way the characters are acting. Gambit was his Death for a while, Rogue absorbed/merged with him, Rictor was being mentally influenced by Apocalypse, you could have used these bits to explain the way they have been acting. But nope, instead we get "they are following Apocalyse because reasons". And moments like Gambit betraying Candra to side with Apocalyse, that should be shocking, feel flat because they are not earned. Apocalyse is pleased with Gambit choice, but we as readers have no in-story explanation for the decision.
    In many ways, I feel that Excalibur is the most subservient title to the overall narrative that Hickman is writing, and that's detrimental to it, to the point that it would probably be better if Hickman was cowriting as he did with NM, where eventually the story he did there paid off in the main title. In Excalibur, for example, we are introduced again to the Externals, because the main title needs an External Gate, so here we have to get the explanation for how it came to be, so the Externals are quickly introduce and tajen off the board, but we as readers don't care because we have been given no reason to care. Toni could have slowly introduced the External in this title instead of wasting time on stuff like magical trees that didn't further the story, so at least them being taken out felt like a bigger deal. Instead is just given a half issue where the are effectively killed by a bunch of mutants who shouldn't be able to do so at their current power levels, so they are rendered insignificant in importance.

  13. #73
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    1,110

    Default

    This book has the Superior Spider-man problem.

  14. #74
    Incredible Member Technopriest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    981

    Default

    Another thing, what did the Externals do that deserved death? I understand that Apocalyse needed to sacrifice 4 of them, but what is the explanation for the rest of the X-Men to go along with the execution? Reasons again? So not siding with a member of the Council is a death sentence now, is this a new law I am not aware of? I mean, at the end of the day the Externals are Mutants, and they were just sacrificed for Apocalyse' designs. And 4 needed to be sacrificed regardless if all of them sided with him, so 4 were condemned to death from the begining.There should be a consequence to that as well, of course I don't expect Tini to provide one. Hellions dealt with a similar ethical issue, where Pryor was not granted a resurrection on the basis of being a clone, but consequences to that were immediately felt. Once again, I feel that Excalibur suffers from being too directly connected to the main title.
    Last edited by Technopriest; 09-19-2020 at 03:17 PM.

  15. #75
    Mighty Member Malachi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    1,880

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Technopriest View Post
    Apocalypse just took all of the characters agencies from them. And don’t get me wrong, that’s part of his character, he is a master manipulator after all. My problem is the fact that the cast doesn’t react to any of that, oh they will complain and moan about it, but then just follow through with what he wants them to do, which is absurd considering the history that they have with him. They are all interchangeable, Rictor is just a collection of convenient powers for Apocalypse to use, the rest of them just fall in line. The other titles might have to follow the general theme laid down by DOX, but the characters are still allowed to have agency respecting their decisions. This is an Apocalypse solo which is fair, but if that was the intention from the beginning he should have been given a cast of characters that would have worked better to play second fiddle to him, not established characters. Rictor is about the only one whose purpose is clear (and is more about his powers than his character) but the rest of them are completely interchangeable.
    All we can do is speculate. We have been told that Hickman was given power/controll equivalent of a showrunner for TV. So he could set the story arc. Decide how many comics where in play and what their role would be. Tini wrote about mutant magic and he liked it. Gave her a series to explore it and the signs point to it orignally being a Apocalypse centered comic. She then got Betsy and Excalibur with CB got involved. How she got Rogue, Jubilee, Rictor and Gambit we don't know.
    It's possible that Rogue and Gambit is seen as a package deal due to the marriage. Personally I'm not to sure. I dobut that if a writer wanted Rogue he had to write Gambit too, and vice versa. Jubilee as it stands now got picked because she has a kid. Rictor because he has powers that can be linked with the elemental archetype and from there dwell further into magic. Druid magic as of now.

    The treatment Rogue, Gambit and Jubilee has gotten makes it easy to speculate that Hickman has no greater interest in them. Or at least so far. Maybe he will move characters around more after the crossover. The fact that he hasn't used Rogue but seems to gravitate towards the 80's lineup of X-men makes me a bit perplexed.

    It sure feels that this book is a built around one greater idea but things just keeps getting attached to it. So much could be taken away to make the book more focused and enjoyable.

    Another problem is the profile of characters. Especially Rogue. It's odd to see her play the background character. She has no real agency and just seems to be along for the ride. It seems it would have been easier to balance the comic if characters who where more blank pages where chosen. Characters who didn't come with this level of expectations.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •