View Poll Results: Rating "The Ultimates" (2002)

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  • 5 * Masterpiece

    10 26.32%
  • 4 * Good

    14 36.84%
  • 3 * Average

    3 7.89%
  • 2 * Bad

    5 13.16%
  • 1 * Disaster

    6 15.79%
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  1. #16
    Extraordinary Member superduperman's Avatar
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    It was good. I agree that none of the characters were particularly likable. Even Cap came off as a bit self righteous. His inability to adjust to modern times was played up a bit too much. But that's still my favorite Cap costume. I even got the action figure for that reason! Some of the concepts in it haven't aged well. I think Millar played up the notion of blind patriotism too much in a way that might have gotten lost in translation a little bit. I don't like what they did to Black Widow but I love the fact that their Hawkeye is basically the exact opposite of the mainstream version. Nick Fury was probably the best character in the whole series.
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dboi2001 View Post
    I still fail to see how the Ultimates are unlikable. I also disagree, Ultimates made a lot of the female heroes way cooler, specifically Janet making her a scientist and mutant though I will admit she could've done more in the final fight (at least she goes giant in Ultimates 2)
    Hmm. I don't recall much from the second series. I know that Natasha ended up being a traitor -- and, I think, was killed by Hawkeye. Jan got abused by Hank way more than she ever did in Jim Shooter's Avengers (which was bad enough). Wanda had a creepy thing going with her brother.


    All of the men came off as jerks. Even Cap took a cheap shot at Bruce Banner after the Hulk went on a rampage.
    Last edited by kcekada; 09-19-2020 at 06:34 PM.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcekada View Post
    All of the men came off as jerks. Even Cap took a cheap shot at Bruce Banner after the Hulk went on a rampage.
    Was that after he became Hulk to impress Betty? Under those circumstances I'm more lenient with Cap being a jerk to banner.

    I liked how the Hulk was viewed more as an actual monster in-universe, because in 616 he's still treated with kid gloves when he carelessly destroys peoples lives when he has a temper tantrum.

  4. #19
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Was that after he became Hulk to impress Betty? Under those circumstances I'm more lenient with Cap being a jerk to banner.

    I liked how the Hulk was viewed more as an actual monster in-universe, because in 616 he's still treated with kid gloves when he carelessly destroys peoples lives when he has a temper tantrum.
    I think the difference is that the 616 version we're still meant to view in a somewhat sympathetic if not necessarily heroic light, whereas Mark Millar with Ultimates was saying, not just of the Hulk, but of damn near every major character in it, "If these people were to really exist in our 21st-century society, they wouldn't be heroes, they'd be @$$holes at best and complete monsters at worst."
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  5. #20

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    deconstruction stories can only go so far before becoming regressive on principle as a form of "realism".
    the first two Ultimates volumes have their place. Beyond that, I didn't care for it to the utmost.

  6. #21
    MXAAGVNIEETRO IS RIGHT MyriVerse's Avatar
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    IMO, nothing good came from the Ultimate line except the Spider-Man series and maybe Ultimate Dazzler. Ultimates was probably the biggest travesty.
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  7. #22
    Astonishing Member your_name_here's Avatar
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    Enjoyed it when it came out but I don’t think it’s aged particularly well.

  8. #23
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyriVerse View Post
    IMO, nothing good came from the Ultimate line except the Spider-Man series and maybe Ultimate Dazzler. Ultimates was probably the biggest travesty.
    I can agree with that to some extent, if only because the Spider-Men and much of their supporting cast(s) still had ideals and/or principles and hadn't been ground down by the sheer nihilism that the rest of the Ultimate Universe seemed all too happy to indulge. Another way to put it would be that Bendis could remember that good, decent people still existed in the world and wrote the Spider-Men and the setting around them accordingly, whereas Millar wrote the Ultimates with a much bleaker perspective on humanity and society and how both would be impacted by the existence of superpowers.
    Last edited by Huntsman Spider; 09-20-2020 at 02:54 PM.
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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcekada View Post
    Hmm. I don't recall much from the second series. I know that Natasha ended up being a traitor -- and, I think, was killed by Hawkeye. Jan got abused by Hank way more than she ever did in Jim Shooter's Avengers (which was bad enough). Wanda had a creepy thing going with her brother.


    All of the men came off as jerks. Even Cap took a cheap shot at Bruce Banner after the Hulk went on a rampage.
    Yeah Hawkeye killed Natasha for murdering his family. Yeah Hank did almost kill Janet but he did regret it and was kicked off the Ultimates and humiliated by Captain America

    I’m pretty sure Steve kicked Banner for injecting himself with the hulk serum after he had cured himself and killing 800 people. That’s pretty damn reasonable

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    I think the difference is that the 616 version we're still meant to view in a somewhat sympathetic if not necessarily heroic light, whereas Mark Millar with Ultimates was saying, not just of the Hulk, but of damn near every major character in it, "If these people were to really exist in our 21st-century society, they wouldn't be heroes, they'd be @$$holes at best and complete monsters at worst."
    Again in what ways? 1610 Hulk started off as a monster but after Banner faked him death Hulk was more tamed in the battle against the Liberators.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    It was good. I agree that none of the characters were particularly likable. Even Cap came off as a bit self righteous. His inability to adjust to modern times was played up a bit too much. But that's still my favorite Cap costume. I even got the action figure for that reason! Some of the concepts in it haven't aged well. I think Millar played up the notion of blind patriotism too much in a way that might have gotten lost in translation a little bit. I don't like what they did to Black Widow but I love the fact that their Hawkeye is basically the exact opposite of the mainstream version. Nick Fury was probably the best character in the whole series.
    I actually loved that Steve couldn’t adjust because it lead to an amazing emotional moment with Bucky. Like if marvel Quitely retconned Steve to be a Vietnam or Gulf veteran his overall personality wouldn’t change that much. Having Steve cling to the past leading to a rift between him and Janet and eventually starting to think it was a mistake to be pulled from the ice was amazing. At the end of the day he is misplaced in time, with most of his friends and family either old or dead. Fury even mentioned he only had a great niece but didn’t bother seeing her since she’d have no idea who he is

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    I think the difference is that the 616 version we're still meant to view in a somewhat sympathetic if not necessarily heroic light, whereas Mark Millar with Ultimates was saying, not just of the Hulk, but of damn near every major character in it, "If these people were to really exist in our 21st-century society, they wouldn't be heroes, they'd be @$$holes at best and complete monsters at worst."
    True, but Hulk still has very bad history in Marvel. An early Hulk comic I read he meets Spider-man in a cave near a town, this might have been when the two first encounter each other, and all Spider-man does is try to calm him down and move him away from the town very politely. Hulk trends to kill him right off the bat. If Spider-man hadn't been able to dodge his blows and/or survived them Hulk would have murdered him immediately. This was Savage Hulk.

    Hulk relies on a stupid amount of sympathy for actions which are monstrous, even if it's unintentional. And then there's when he's anti-social and apathetic to the pain he causes. Hulk wants to live in your town? Bad luck, he's kicking you out and not letting you back and if you try to take him on he's going to take it personal and try to murder you in response despite his whining about wanting to be left alone. Not a fan of Savage Hulk, as you can guess.
    Last edited by Steel Inquisitor; 09-21-2020 at 03:24 AM.

  13. #28
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    ultimates is the airline pamphlet to ultimates 2, the best thing ever
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  14. #29
    Incredible Member basbash99's Avatar
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    When it came out, i would've said it was a masterpiece. I don't think Millar's style has aged all that well, or maybe i've just read too many of his comics since then, but now i would simply rate it as good, although i still think the artwork is outstanding. And i think for the most part the mcu was able to capitalize on some of the ideas from these comics fairly well.

  15. #30
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    True, but Hulk still has very bad history in Marvel. An early Hulk comic I read he meets Spider-man in a cave near a town, this might have been when the two first encounter each other, and all Spider-man does is try to calm him down and move him away from the town very politely. Hulk trends to kill him right off the bat. If Spider-man hadn't been able to dodge his blows and/or survived them Hulk would have murdered him immediately. This was Savage Hulk.

    Hulk relies on a stupid amount of sympathy for actions which are monstrous, even if it's unintentional. And then there's when he's anti-social and apathetic to the pain he causes. Hulk wants to live in your town? Bad luck, he's kicking you out and not letting you back and if you try to take him on he's going to take it personal and try to murder you in response despite his whining about wanting to be left alone. Not a fan of Savage Hulk, as you can guess.
    Neither was Millar, it seems, so from that vantage point, you make a certain amount of sense.
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