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  1. #121
    Mighty Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lapsus View Post
    What they say dont matter, you can or cant believe them, the medicines are a good product until you start to add the extra conditions apart from the fact that Krakoa trade relations are just one sided (only Krakoa profit)
    What extra conditions?

    Im not saying that what they are doing is illegal but the UN have no voice in this, once the mutant criminal is take it to Krakoa you lost track of what happens there. In practice Krakoa demands blind trust in how they handle the criminals.
    Krakoa is not demanding anything because the UN usually operates that way with every country, each country can handle itīs criminals the way they chose to unless they have foreing criminals, in that case there must be an agreetment between nations to decide how to handle the situation of a particular criminal. Itīs a legal matter not a matter of trust.

    The UN doesnīt have the authority to force countries to operate the way the UN wants but they can make a suggestion or in the case of a very serious situation, meaning a military intervention or war , it can seek the cooperation of other nations to try to put a stop to it.In the case of the MU they could call on the Avengers and Shield if it comes to it but as long as Krakoa keeps itīs bussines for itself then thereīs no reason for the UN to act that way.

    The gates are not an embassy because they are an actual border with another country. A border that you cannot control and that in some cases like USA, there are several of them.
    I call them embassies because they are supposed to be the place in which they conduct bussines with the countries in which that gate is located and also the place of contact for their citizens. Thatīs how an embassy usually operates, they are considered part of that nation inside another nation territory with permission from the host nation, they can reject that embassy and itīs ambassador at any moment but this type of decisions are only considered when the relationiship has become hostile or cold. There are countries who have more than one embassy for each country in which it has a political relationship, so no, they are not borders in the traditional sense.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 09-20-2020 at 06:41 PM.
    "The time for subtlety is passing. Now is the time for change." [New Mutants (Vol. 1) #38]

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack The Tripper View Post
    We haven't exactly seen any human hero asking to be let in though have we? It seems as though they aren't keen to go over either. You're right they are in their own corner - they've just started a nation, and as we've seen, humanity hasn't exactly been respectful to them. The whole point, is to let them find their footing as a nation and hopefully not be scared of utter decimation as we've previously seen. The fact that humans can't understand this is selfish.
    We haven't seen many things, so it seems silly to assume everything's going fine before knowing all the details. We don't know what they think about krakoa, it's barely a presence gone in depth outside the X-books so it's weird to assume they'd never want to visit their old friends when they made a nation of mutants again. Humanity is billions of people, and there have always been horrible bigots in governments and the civilian population who have been horrible with mutants that doesn't make every human bad. It's like assuming every mutant wants to genocide humanity because Apocalypse does it very so often. You can understand something and not agree with the conclusion, it's why Walter White's a wonderful character but a horrible human being.

    You're correct, but America was not just founded by what are essentially refugees a few months ago. They're working on a new Nation, and a new culture. It isn't the same. And tbh, it's more the other way around. It's like Americans not being allowed in the Middle East. And honestly, I wouldn't be surprised with That, given the atrocities committed by America in the name of oil and freedom. The fact is, the humans need to accept mutants before mutants will accept them. They are the minority in context of the world. They have seeked refuge. It doesn't affect humans.
    Krkao is a first world nation, with connections and economic weight that made it rocket to the top in the world. You know, even that example I made wasn't precise with Krakao's immigration - it's about genes more than nationalism. Except Americans are allowed in Middle Eastern countries, it's America that's stopping them coming over because of their religion or nation and Krakoa's following that script. Attrocities are committed by governments, the citizens didn't have every say in what they do - it's like saying every mutant needs to pay for Hank did in X-Force. The phase "minorities" has nothing to do with the entire world it's about country dynamics. You're also overlooking how much destruction mutant terrorists have done to the world, which make things like the Iraq wars look amateur hour operations in destroying peoples lives, Marvel just glosses over the real implications because if they didn't a lot of their big names would have a worse reputation than Pol Pot. There are various politicians in America who don't think things like the Iraq war were bad, and they were, but who's really asking these questions in and outside Krakao? Everything they do affects humans, that's the point. Krakoa's not on Mars doing nothing, they're changing the status quo around humanity and in some cases launching attacks and covert operations on other human nations. Except what Krakoa wants isn't going to ultimately matter since it's not going to fix mutant bigotry being stopped in Marvel, because that's what their brand is built on, it's what their readers want to read about and Marvel wants that money. And even if they could expecting all of humanity to do that when krakoa is doing what it's doing is a fool's errand because peace is built by two groups coming together in harmony, not isolating themselves from the world and expecting humanity to just accept everything because solving racism isn't that simple. Which is made harder by their secrecy and dictatorship, which of course they'd want to keep quiet because that'd be a bad image for humanity to see a mutants running a nation that makes Genosha look like Disneyland. It is problematic that through Marvel history mutant nations all too often go for dictatorships, monarchies and authoritarian governments.

    Krakoa: the nation which has a worse tourism industry than North Korea. By choice.

    Again, that would be selfish on Jennifer's part. If my friend moved to another country for a better life, I have no reason to be bitter about it. You can miss those people, but if you're sour that they're happy, then you aren't a friend. Let's be completely fair here - neither the FF or the X-Men came off looking well there. Both were in the wrong, but in the end, Franklin wanted to go to Krakoa. They were looking out for a mutant.
    None of this was what I said or how Jen's behaved. It's not selfish to want to visit or live in other countries you friends live in. There's no problems with another friend moving to another country, but it is ok to be upset when that said country won't let you see your friend because of you're not the right race. Absolutely nobody is upset about mutants not being happy, that's a straw man. Franklin's a kid with god like power, who his parents already told him he could go there when he was 18 - and the his parents would be even more worried if they truly knew what the government was up to. Which is why the Quiet Council wants Krakoa locked up nice and tight from the world, even Deadpool would notice how wrong things are and he's a crazy assassin. I miss when the X-men actually asked questions about what Xavier was doing and would get into his face when he did something they didn't like. Kitty was looking out for a fellow mutant, Xavier wanted a new weapon in Krakoa's arsenal.

  3. #123
    Astonishing Member Ferro's Avatar
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    there's literaly portals that any mutant can acess to any place in the world, jenn can see any of her friends because mutants can use those portals at any second without any restrictions, time acess or even BASIC burocracy, you can just USE THEM at any time.

    franklin is seen in a preview getting a call from his mom in the island, then gets an adult to literaly walk him home in a matter of minutes, HOW IS THAT LOCKING UP ANYONE??? public schools are less safe than that.

    humans AREN'T entitled to meddling in the affairs of the people they pretty much chased out of the rest of the world with their opression, mutants HAVE CHOSEN to move to krakoa and can leave at any time, but guess what? they have no reason to!

    if jenniger has any mutant friend it takes a call and a walk to the nearest gate to meet, it's not about "mutant friends" but your idea that she is entitled and should ALWAYS be granted a red carpet entrance to a group's safe space because of "heroism" (that was never in the name of the people of krakoa, ever)
    Last edited by Ferro; 09-21-2020 at 12:14 AM.

  4. #124
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    ...

    None of this was what I said or how Jen's behaved. It's not selfish to want to visit or live in other countries you friends live in. There's no problems with another friend moving to another country, but it is ok to be upset when that said country won't let you see your friend because of you're not the right race. Absolutely nobody is upset about mutants not being happy, that's a straw man. Franklin's a kid with god like power, who his parents already told him he could go there when he was 18 - and the his parents would be even more worried if they truly knew what the government was up to. Which is why the Quiet Council wants Krakoa locked up nice and tight from the world, even Deadpool would notice how wrong things are and he's a crazy assassin. I miss when the X-men actually asked questions about what Xavier was doing and would get into his face when he did something they didn't like. Kitty was looking out for a fellow mutant, Xavier wanted a new weapon in Krakoa's arsenal.
    The actual reality of things finally sunk in when they were killed for the umpteenth time trying to stop humanity from building robots to hunt them down and murder them just because they happened to be born mutants.

    That sort of thing has a way of actually putting things into perspective...

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    We haven't seen many things, so it seems silly to assume everything's going fine before knowing all the details. We don't know what they think about krakoa, it's barely a presence gone in depth outside the X-books so it's weird to assume they'd never want to visit their old friends when they made a nation of mutants again. Humanity is billions of people, and there have always been horrible bigots in governments and the civilian population who have been horrible with mutants that doesn't make every human bad. It's like assuming every mutant wants to genocide humanity because Apocalypse does it very so often. You can understand something and not agree with the conclusion, it's why Walter White's a wonderful character but a horrible human being.
    Similarly, we haven't seen many things, so it's silly to assume things aren't fine - as you've said, outside of the X Books we haven't seen much of anyone's stance on Krakoa. Now we're just seeing Jen's. And the fact is, we don't know what will happen once Krakoa is out of this beginning phase - I'd assume that tourism would be allowed and less strict borders too, but the fact is they have had to constantly deal with human security threats that have been making themselves apparent in the first few months of Krakoa's creation. Things can change, but they have to focus on saving the mutants trapped on other countries first before they can even think of humans having a holiday on the island.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Krkao is a first world nation, with connections and economic weight that made it rocket to the top in the world. You know, even that example I made wasn't precise with Krakao's immigration - it's about genes more than nationalism. Except Americans are allowed in Middle Eastern countries, it's America that's stopping them coming over because of their religion or nation and Krakoa's following that script. Attrocities are committed by governments, the citizens didn't have every say in what they do - it's like saying every mutant needs to pay for Hank did in X-Force. The phase "minorities" has nothing to do with the entire world it's about country dynamics. You're also overlooking how much destruction mutant terrorists have done to the world, which make things like the Iraq wars look amateur hour operations in destroying peoples lives, Marvel just glosses over the real implications because if they didn't a lot of their big names would have a worse reputation than Pol Pot. There are various politicians in America who don't think things like the Iraq war were bad, and they were, but who's really asking these questions in and outside Krakao? Everything they do affects humans, that's the point. Krakoa's not on Mars doing nothing, they're changing the status quo around humanity and in some cases launching attacks and covert operations on other human nations. Except what Krakoa wants isn't going to ultimately matter since it's not going to fix mutant bigotry being stopped in Marvel, because that's what their brand is built on, it's what their readers want to read about and Marvel wants that money. And even if they could expecting all of humanity to do that when krakoa is doing what it's doing is a fool's errand because peace is built by two groups coming together in harmony, not isolating themselves from the world and expecting humanity to just accept everything because solving racism isn't that simple. Which is made harder by their secrecy and dictatorship, which of course they'd want to keep quiet because that'd be a bad image for humanity to see a mutants running a nation that makes Genosha look like Disneyland. It is problematic that through Marvel history mutant nations all too often go for dictatorships, monarchies and authoritarian governments.

    Krakoa: the nation which has a worse tourism industry than North Korea. By choice.
    I'm replying on my phone so sorry if I don't reply to everything because there's a lot here. But this isn't as simple as what you lay it out to be - you're talking about a species that was almost made extinct a few years back, who have just managed to claw themselves back. It's a last resort. This isn't as simple as country v country or race v race or religion v religion. This is smaller species vs larger species. No one has implied that this is the best direction for peace, but it is the only direction for safety. Humans won't accept peace, so here's Krakoa. I don't think you can call it a dictatorship, I think it's been heavily implied as a temporary government to be honest. And there is no implication that people's voices arent heard. And Again, it's not just about making peace, it's about keeping mutants safe and keeping them alive. That's the main goal of Krakoa.

    Krakoa: the infant nation being used as a refuge for mutants previously unsafe in a human world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    None of this was what I said or how Jen's behaved. It's not selfish to want to visit or live in other countries you friends live in. There's no problems with another friend moving to another country, but it is ok to be upset when that said country won't let you see your friend because of you're not the right race. Absolutely nobody is upset about mutants not being happy, that's a straw man. Franklin's a kid with god like power, who his parents already told him he could go there when he was 18 - and the his parents would be even more worried if they truly knew what the government was up to. Which is why the Quiet Council wants Krakoa locked up nice and tight from the world, even Deadpool would notice how wrong things are and he's a crazy assassin. I miss when the X-men actually asked questions about what Xavier was doing and would get into his face when he did something they didn't like. Kitty was looking out for a fellow mutant, Xavier wanted a new weapon in Krakoa's arsenal.
    I didn't say you said that, it was an analogy, linking what you said regarding old avengers members no longer being on Avengers teams. It is selfish when it's clearly not been established as "just another country". It's at least currently a safe space for a minority species. Jen, as a hero should respect that. She is not entitled to move to any given country, just like how you and I aren't. There's a process for everything. At some point, Krakoa may have that, but at the end of the day it's a living island that has popped out of the sea. It isn't a normal country. Any friend of any human can walk right back out of a gate at any time. As we've seen in Cable, they don't even have to live on Krakoa. She can see her friends easier than most people can see their foreign friends. Franklin was also a kid who was losing his power with his dad intentionally trying not to fix It, or even allowing the X-Men to have a look despite them wanting to help. As I said the F4 did not come off well in that series either, especially with their attempts to nullify his mutant gene. No winners there
    Either way, the F4 and Deadpool are not the best judges of morality in the MU, so I don't think their opinions on Krakoa even matter. We've seen a lot of mutants show caution and hesitancy with a lot of aspects of Krakoa, and it's clearly leading up to some thing big. It's a story, doing what stories do by creating drama. Xavier will be held to question. And so what if Xavier wanted Franklin as a weapon? It would be his choice at the end of the day, because he could leave Krakoa.

  6. #126
    Astonishing Member Veitha's Avatar
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    lmao is this tourism on Krakoa thing still going on?

  7. #127
    Incredible Member Lapsus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    Krakoa is not demanding anything
    They do, you are speaking of the conditions after the agreement, again, is legal, everyone accepted Krakoa conditions, im not saying that the UN should look into Krakoa dealings. My point is on the terms of the agreement before became accepted, the ones to come to my mind.

    1) Every mutant is a Krakoa national by birth.
    2) Every mutant criminal must be judge in Krakoa.
    3) The Gates
    4) The medicine (I think Krakoa can set the price)

    This are the extra conditions that can make the medicines not be good enough even with the political pressure to accept the deal there is a lot of baggage in some of them that can create political pressure too.

    About the gates; they are not normal embassies, the Krakoan gates are closer to be an actual border inside your own territory, is a breach. They can cross, you cant, you cant compare them to a normal building like an embassy. Again, not arguing with the legality of the gates, i know that the United States and every other country that accepted the deal have them, not arguing with the morals neither.

  8. #128
    Extraordinary Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lapsus View Post
    They do, you are speaking of the conditions after the agreement, again, is legal, everyone accepted Krakoa conditions, im not saying that the UN should look into Krakoa dealings. My point is on the terms of the agreement before became accepted, the ones to come to my mind.

    1) Every mutant is a Krakoa national by birth.
    2) Every mutant criminal must be judge in Krakoa.
    3) The Gates
    4) The medicine (I think Krakoa can set the price)
    The KraKoa national policy is similar to Israls which provides citizenship opportunities to descendants not born within it's borders. There's also limits on who can become a citizen and different legal statuses of various levels of citizenship. I'd think most places would be happy to have mutant criminals and crimes not be in their day to day How many correction facilities can house a nuclear powered mutant etc. What would be the drawbacks of accepting the medicine

    Quote Originally Posted by Lapsus View Post
    About the gates; they are not normal embassies, the Krakoan gates are closer to be an actual border inside your own territory, is a breach. They can cross, you cant, you cant compare them to a normal building like an embassy. Again, not arguing with the legality of the gates, i know that the United States and every other country that accepted the deal have them, not arguing with the morals neither.
    Sounds like a border
    GrindrStone(D)

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack The Tripper View Post
    Similarly, we haven't seen many things, so it's silly to assume things aren't fine - as you've said, outside of the X Books we haven't seen much of anyone's stance on Krakoa. Now we're just seeing Jen's. And the fact is, we don't know what will happen once Krakoa is out of this beginning phase - I'd assume that tourism would be allowed and less strict borders too, but the fact is they have had to constantly deal with human security threats that have been making themselves apparent in the first few months of Krakoa's creation. Things can change, but they have to focus on saving the mutants trapped on other countries first before they can even think of humans having a holiday on the island.
    Except we shouldn't just be seeing Jen, Jen isn't even that big a star in Marvel. She's B-lister, if not a C-lister. Marvel and Hickman are not only keeping Krakoa in a little box within its own titles, they may as well not be the game changer Krakoa's been shown as in their own books - which I think was deliberate in case Hickman wants to reveal it being a past life of Moira X or the next writer retcons it as such or does something else to take krakoa off there board - like having them all be sinister plant clones. The problem is in the books nobody brings these things up, which they would be talking about since they're meant to be people and people know what tourism is and want their old friends to hang out with them when they move to other countries. Dealing with anti-mutant bigot security threats is just normal to the majority fo these people, long before Krakoa. That's like the Avengers worrying about when Kang will strike. Here comes Kang again, who saw that coming? *every Avenger raises their hand* Hawkeye won the bet by five days, something like that. Except they have a large nation now, people they know whose jobs are about that. That's what every government does. But they don't need to choose that, that's a false option.



    I'm replying on my phone so sorry if I don't reply to everything because there's a lot here. But this isn't as simple as what you lay it out to be - you're talking about a species that was almost made extinct a few years back, who have just managed to claw themselves back. It's a last resort. This isn't as simple as country v country or race v race or religion v religion. This is smaller species vs larger species. No one has implied that this is the best direction for peace, but it is the only direction for safety. Humans won't accept peace, so here's Krakoa. I don't think you can call it a dictatorship, I think it's been heavily implied as a temporary government to be honest. And there is no implication that people's voices arent heard. And Again, it's not just about making peace, it's about keeping mutants safe and keeping them alive. That's the main goal of Krakoa.
    Every few years mutants are on the verge of extinction, they were in worse shape as a species during Decimation. This stopped being solely about being species when Xavier decided to make himself the founder and leader of a mutant nation, that's Krakoa's solution: entering geopolitics and their problems are now in the geopolitical arena. Economics, immigration, governance, those are now Xavier's answers to problems rather than creating superhero paramilitary squads. Sure it is, that's all the krakoa age is doing, that's how it defined itself from other time periods in the franchise. Even more than Utopia. You're not a mutant? Get out. That's how we're going to judge people as being a friend or enemy now. Apocalypse? You're in. She-Hulk? Get off our island or we're going to throw you out because you're not a mutant. Of course she wouldn't get that far into Krakoa to begin with, by design. Krakao's more hardline against immigrants than North Korea. Tyrants use nice language to soften their bad stances, and the Quiet Council hit all the benchmarks, even if it's not spoken out loud.

    Krakoa: the infant nation being used as a refuge for mutants previously unsafe in a human world.
    They can do that without doing what krakoa is right now. Unless, like I said, the mutant populace are inherently against democracy politically. Just because Xavier and co. are the ones making all the choices now isn't a reason that it's inevitable answer to all the questions mutant society has got governing. They're just the mutants who got their first and have the power to maintain their position, juts like in real life the rich and connected get to dominate the direction mutant kind goes in, except it's worse now because this in a nation rather than a super-heroes team or a movement.



    I didn't say you said that, it was an analogy, linking what you said regarding old avengers members no longer being on Avengers teams. It is selfish when it's clearly not been established as "just another country". It's at least currently a safe space for a minority species. Jen, as a hero should respect that. She is not entitled to move to any given country, just like how you and I aren't. There's a process for everything. At some point, Krakoa may have that, but at the end of the day it's a living island that has popped out of the sea. It isn't a normal country. Any friend of any human can walk right back out of a gate at any time. As we've seen in Cable, they don't even have to live on Krakoa. She can see her friends easier than most people can see their foreign friends. Franklin was also a kid who was losing his power with his dad intentionally trying not to fix It, or even allowing the X-Men to have a look despite them wanting to help. As I said the F4 did not come off well in that series either, especially with their attempts to nullify his mutant gene. No winners there
    But it is another country, it just has mutants. There are other super powered nations in Marvel, like Attilan, Atlantis and more. This isn't our Earth, it's Marvel's. Countries are, once again, not safe spaces. Jen can respect Krakoa as a haven for mutant kind, and think they're being racist against non-mutants when their immigration policy is more strict then North Korea's. Because nations shouldn't be forbidding people from crossing its borders because of their race. Countries have their own processes for immigration, there may are many hoops Jen would have to go through to be a citizen or be visit - her race should have nothing to do with it. Human rights, and this goes for all humanoid life on marvel Earth (which mutants are a sub-group of), not being given a priority until undisclosed further which will never arrive (because Krakoa as we know it is on a ticking clock, about to hit act 2) is a huge red flag. Then why are the non-mutant and mutants still so disconnected within their titles? Why aren't we seeing non-mutant guest stars constantly in Krakoa? Reed wanted to cloak Franklin's powers to protect him from Sentinels, Xavier and magneto went overboard and made sure that technology was kept out of his reach - a move I'd associate more with helping the anti-mutant cause because it doesn't help them. Despite the fact Xavier was a friend of Reed's. Krakao wasn't there for a friendly meet and greet, it was official business to recruit an Omega for their own agenda. The X-men weren't there, representatives of Krakoa were.


    Either way, the F4 and Deadpool are not the best judges of morality in the MU, so I don't think their opinions on Krakoa even matter. We've seen a lot of mutants show caution and hesitancy with a lot of aspects of Krakoa, and it's clearly leading up to some thing big. It's a story, doing what stories do by creating drama. Xavier will be held to question. And so what if Xavier wanted Franklin as a weapon? It would be his choice at the end of the day, because he could leave Krakoa.
    They have more going for them on morality than Apocalypse, Mr. Sinister and Exodus. The resistance to krakoa is not realistic in the last with their past characterisations, the X-men as we knew them would be starting civil war by now. They've chewed out Xavier for less. These characters wouldn't be so mild with their decisions as we've been shown, that's partially why it feels off. It is leading up to something big but it's telling that they're not doing anything now. Because he's a kid, and just because he's powerful Franklin shouldn't be used as a tool by Krakoa's government like he's just another killer. His parents would be right to be furious about that. It remains to be seen if anyone truly has a choice to leave Krakoa. The faction infighting should have vastly more tension then what we see, especially the unknown Genosha mutants who wanted to kill Magneto when he was vulnerable when he ruled Genosha. Their lack of presence is a huge red flag of what Krakoa's doing with these resurrected mutants from Genosha. Where are they?

  10. #130
    Incredible Member Lapsus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    The KraKoa national policy is similar to Israls which provides citizenship opportunities to descendants not born within it's borders. There's also limits on who can become a citizen and different legal statuses of various levels of citizenship. I'd think most places would be happy to have mutant criminals and crimes not be in their day to day How many correction facilities can house a nuclear powered mutant etc. What would be the drawbacks of accepting the medicine
    With the first point i have no problem, Krakoa can set the immigration policy that they want and is up to them who can or cant enter their country. With the mutant criminals is not that simple, countries usually are very defensive with criminals serving the sentence in their own territory if the crimes are committed there.

    Security is not the argument given by the books, is the lack of impartiality, so they consider themselves the best suited. The problem is once the criminal is there you dont know nothing about their sentence or their fate. Besides im sure they have prisons for mutates, im certain that they can handle mutants. The last issue would be paranoia, you are giving a lot of superpeople (criminals in fact) from around the world to the same nation.

    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    Sounds like a border
    And a very advantageous one for Krakoa, since humans cant cross, only mutants and they are scattered around the country in the case of USA.

    Edit: i forgot about the medicines, they are not a problem per se but the economic implications of trading with Krakoa are not desirable.
    Last edited by Lapsus; 09-21-2020 at 02:56 AM.

  11. #131
    Astonishing Member Glio's Avatar
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    You would be surprised to find out the number of countries in which its people cannot travel to the United States but Americans can travel to that country.

  12. #132
    Astonishing Member Ferro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Except we shouldn't just be seeing Jen, Jen isn't even that big a star in Marvel. She's B-lister, if not a C-lister. Marvel and Hickman are not only keeping Krakoa in a little box within its own titles, they may as well not be the game changer Krakoa's been shown as in their own books - which I think was deliberate in case Hickman wants to reveal it being a past life of Moira X or the next writer retcons it as such or does something else to take krakoa off there board - like having them all be sinister plant clones. The problem is in the books nobody brings these things up, which they would be talking about since they're meant to be people and people know what tourism is and want their old friends to hang out with them when they move to other countries. Dealing with anti-mutant bigot security threats is just normal to the majority fo these people, long before Krakoa. That's like the Avengers worrying about when Kang will strike. Here comes Kang again, who saw that coming? *every Avenger raises their hand* Hawkeye won the bet by five days, something like that. Except they have a large nation now, people they know whose jobs are about that. That's what every government does. But they don't need to choose that, that's a false option.





    Every few years mutants are on the verge of extinction, they were in worse shape as a species during Decimation. This stopped being solely about being species when Xavier decided to make himself the founder and leader of a mutant nation, that's Krakoa's solution: entering geopolitics and their problems are now in the geopolitical arena. Economics, immigration, governance, those are now Xavier's answers to problems rather than creating superhero paramilitary squads. Sure it is, that's all the krakoa age is doing, that's how it defined itself from other time periods in the franchise. Even more than Utopia. You're not a mutant? Get out. That's how we're going to judge people as being a friend or enemy now. Apocalypse? You're in. She-Hulk? Get off our island or we're going to throw you out because you're not a mutant. Of course she wouldn't get that far into Krakoa to begin with, by design. Krakao's more hardline against immigrants than North Korea. Tyrants use nice language to soften their bad stances, and the Quiet Council hit all the benchmarks, even if it's not spoken out loud.



    They can do that without doing what krakoa is right now. Unless, like I said, the mutant populace are inherently against democracy politically. Just because Xavier and co. are the ones making all the choices now isn't a reason that it's inevitable answer to all the questions mutant society has got governing. They're just the mutants who got their first and have the power to maintain their position, juts like in real life the rich and connected get to dominate the direction mutant kind goes in, except it's worse now because this in a nation rather than a super-heroes team or a movement.





    But it is another country, it just has mutants. There are other super powered nations in Marvel, like Attilan, Atlantis and more. This isn't our Earth, it's Marvel's. Countries are, once again, not safe spaces. Jen can respect Krakoa as a haven for mutant kind, and think they're being racist against non-mutants when their immigration policy is more strict then North Korea's. Because nations shouldn't be forbidding people from crossing its borders because of their race. Countries have their own processes for immigration, there may are many hoops Jen would have to go through to be a citizen or be visit - her race should have nothing to do with it. Human rights, and this goes for all humanoid life on marvel Earth (which mutants are a sub-group of), not being given a priority until undisclosed further which will never arrive (because Krakoa as we know it is on a ticking clock, about to hit act 2) is a huge red flag. Then why are the non-mutant and mutants still so disconnected within their titles? Why aren't we seeing non-mutant guest stars constantly in Krakoa? Reed wanted to cloak Franklin's powers to protect him from Sentinels, Xavier and magneto went overboard and made sure that technology was kept out of his reach - a move I'd associate more with helping the anti-mutant cause because it doesn't help them. Despite the fact Xavier was a friend of Reed's. Krakao wasn't there for a friendly meet and greet, it was official business to recruit an Omega for their own agenda. The X-men weren't there, representatives of Krakoa were.




    They have more going for them on morality than Apocalypse, Mr. Sinister and Exodus. The resistance to krakoa is not realistic in the last with their past characterisations, the X-men as we knew them would be starting civil war by now. They've chewed out Xavier for less. These characters wouldn't be so mild with their decisions as we've been shown, that's partially why it feels off. It is leading up to something big but it's telling that they're not doing anything now. Because he's a kid, and just because he's powerful Franklin shouldn't be used as a tool by Krakoa's government like he's just another killer. His parents would be right to be furious about that. It remains to be seen if anyone truly has a choice to leave Krakoa. The faction infighting should have vastly more tension then what we see, especially the unknown Genosha mutants who wanted to kill Magneto when he was vulnerable when he ruled Genosha. Their lack of presence is a huge red flag of what Krakoa's doing with these resurrected mutants from Genosha. Where are they?
    the x-men we know allied themselves with villains too, had rogue with a team composed of villains, said x-men created an assasination strike force, you are the one not up to standart the x-men have changed.

    And also the x-men deserve their own corner, hell even ther own universe the majority of us do not care about what the rest of marvel thinks of krakoa, jennifer and the avengers haven't been "their friends" since avengers vs x-men.

    your points are based on misimformation, bad faith arguments and twisting the facts , never using in page references to support your claims just to create this narrative that only someone that gets the book's information second hand creates, because I never see you anywhere in review threads, you are consistently wrong on facts about recent issues and it's brutally clear you are here just to cause negativity and to virtue signal a fictional story and people that enjoy it, and doing it badly.

    Read the titles form an opinion that makes a shred of logic.
    Last edited by Ferro; 09-21-2020 at 04:18 AM.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    You would be surprised to find out the number of countries in which its people cannot travel to the United States but Americans can travel to that country.
    They're racist immigration policies, which is why it's problematic for Krakao to follow in those footsteps. The former X-men shouldn't be agreeing with Trump on anything.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    They're racist immigration policies, which is why it's problematic for Krakao to follow in those footsteps. The former X-men shouldn't be agreeing with Trump on anything.
    Are you going to create a think piece about the avengers having a mansion in new york when its riddled with homelessnes or is it just for a tiny sentient island that the argument works for ?
    Or about avengers books not having any mutant issues, or that works only for x-men title that have to catter to your ideas of heroism?

    the double standarts are starting to become just beyond toxic at this point.
    Last edited by Ferro; 09-21-2020 at 03:47 AM.

  15. #135
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    Krakoa is for mutants, for mutants are the ones capable of feeding said sentient island that's already a reason why it deserves to be exclusive.
    Mutants arent taking any land from no one, they are minding their own business removing themselves from various societies where they clearly aren't welcome to, the avengers have been lapdogs of a goverment that can't say the same.

    The bottom line is humans don't need krakoa, they dont need it's protections, its infrastructure, it's safety, because theres 7 continents any human can live in and a bajilion superhero teams to protect them, mutants get ONE thing for themselves and they have every right to gatekeep it from a group that has proven to be nothing but agressive and destructive towards Mutants.
    Racism is also about power, mutants posses no institutional power over humans, they can't pass a registration act like, oh, humans.


    The days of mutant kind twisting their spines to please humans and get nothing in return are over, if humans are envious of the beauty and wonders of krakoa they shouldn't have created sentinels. simple, in real life many opressed communities or safe spaces have to put their foot down because outsiders don't have any respect for bounderies and end up ruining said safe spaces.
    Last edited by Ferro; 09-21-2020 at 04:00 AM.

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