Immortal She-Hulk #1 Preview - Logan talking about Krakoa

[Daedra]

I think some krakoa's detractors are forgetting that the current setup is the result of all the knowledge gained by Moira's many lives, at this point and after so many lives ending in genocide it's pretty clear some options are no longer on the table, passive or more politically correct approaches led to disaster for the entire mutant species

[Lucyinthesky]

My problem is not Magneto's attitude, arrogance is justify if he can back up, the problem comes with the logic. Almost every economist would know what they are doing, Magneto presents the plan with the idea that the mutants dont need money, they only want to become rich to buy them.

He is literally giving no reasons to why a country should trade with them.

Now responding to chief12d, political expediency is probably the official reason.

The thing is, several of the mutants demands are definitely political expediency too.

A) Mutants are Krakoa citizens
B) Mutants cannot be judge by human tribunals
C) Krakoa wants Gates open inside your own borders, Gates that you cant cross but they can whenever they want.

They trade with them because they are offering medicines that can cure almost any physical or mental illness and that´s a good product to trade, they also were very clear their target were the anti mutant groups, not any other human institution so they are not even targeting a particular nation and they have both history and reasons to keep those groups from developing sentinels they would use to attack their country.

Since the moment Krakoa became part of the UN they are working within the system not outside of it so is to be expected to apply to them the rules that are applied to everybody else.

The gates themselves are embassies, they are not different to other countries who ask for permission first to enter their country.

[Glio]

My problem is not Magneto's attitude, arrogance is justify if he can back up, the problem comes with the logic. Almost every economist would know what they are doing, Magneto presents the plan with the idea that the mutants dont need money, they only want to become rich to buy them.

He is literally giving no reasons to why a country should trade with them.

Now responding to chief12d, political expediency is probably the official reason.

The thing is, several of the mutants demands are definitely political expediency too.

A) Mutants are Krakoa citizens
B) Mutants cannot be judge by human tribunals
C) Krakoa wants Gates open inside your own borders, Gates that you cant cross but they can whenever they want.

But Krakoa does buy things from humans, they are not an autarky. They have things like computers and mobiles that they import from abroad, Logan buys foreign beer...

Krakoa is simply too small to be completely self-sufficient, at the very least they will need to acquire certain raw materials for things like the Blackbirds.

Yes, of course they do not need to import many things (oil, food, wood, medicines ...) but they do need to import some.

[Jack The Tripper]

I don't understand people saying that Krakoa existing DOES impact Jennifer? It only impacts her as much as any other country would affect one of us? Yeah, there are obviously larger economic/political changes that would affect her perhaps, but Logan is clearly talking about social impact. She mentioned how (most) humans can't be on Krakoa, and Logan shut down her biased view on it. He's right, there is no direct impact on her, at least currently. I'm sure she isn't privy to any of the behind the scenes political stuff so y'know

[Jack The Tripper]

????????

Why is jennifer getting dragged in her own book for something completely unrelated?

Read the comic and find out I guess! Ewing's a great writer so I'm 100% sure there's a good reason for it.

Similarly, just because it's a character's title doesn't mean they have to be in the right all the time! Drama and nuance baybeeeeeee

[Grunty]

But Krakoa does buy things from humans, they are not an autarky. They have things like computers and mobiles that they import from abroad, Logan buys foreign beer...

Krakoa is simply too small to be completely self-sufficient, at the very least they will need to acquire certain raw materials for things like the Blackbirds.

Yes, of course they do not need to import many things (oil, food, wood, medicines ...) but they do need to import some.

I'm pretty sure the computers are supposed to be home made via bio-technology made of Krakoa, judging by terminals made from krakoan growth and the automatons shown in Marauders to process the drugs.
Considering Forge build a high powered race car out of the stuff, we can't even rule out that that phones and Blackbird are made from it too now. All just using a casing that looks like the normal tech version made by the rest of the world.

The whole point of Krakoa after all was to become technological indepedent from "human" (urgh i really start to dislike the whole mutant vs. human word usage in the last 20 years of the X-men) digital technology, since it's associated with Sentinels.
Similar to be entirely self-sufficient via all the magic bio-tech that figurativly dropped out of the sky for mutants and their mutant powers. Because this is a super hero comic so a tiny island nation can be entirely self-sufficient while having all the nice advantages of modern international trade reliant societies.

Wasn't there even a white page about how they don't import anything nor do they seem to produce garbage in the early issues of Marauders?

And even when they still do import things, it seems to be entirely luxury products or Logan's booze and beer. Which basicly makes trade to Krakoa more or less worthless to any nation and their companies from the big to the small ones. Krakoa simply has no needs for anyone to really profit from.

The hot dog salesman near the Krakoa gate in New York might make bank from stable customers giving large tips, but the company making the hot dogs and all the sellers in the city will not feel any economic advantage. That is if the Krakoans even want these hot dogs and not just sneer at the idea of eating "human made flesh products" since their vegan krakoa made flesh is so much healthier and tastier (hypothetical scenario). Because that's a mentality we have seen plenty of in the current status quo from mutants living on Krakoa.

The whole situation feels similar to the british and chinese trade relationships in the 18th century. Where China had a ton of products that the population of Great Britian desired (tea, silk, porcelain), but Britian had nothing China official desired in any worthwhile quantity. Except for silver. Since in terms of everything else they were self reliant. Which resulted in Britian essentialy bleeding silver into China.
The only product that could be sold into china for a profit was Opium... leading the pointless and bloody Opium Wars, because the british government had more than enough (selfish) reasons to help that trade and break Chinas trade independence.

Which is more than enough reason for Xavier and Moira to have made sure Krakoa never needs anything from the outside world and instead become both China and Britian in this equation. Having no need for outside products, but having things the others need that only they can produce.

[Glio]

The thing is, if we look at the pages of X-Force ... Xavier before the founding of Krakoa ALREADY OWNED the world's largest business conglomerate secretly.

He can just use it more openly now.

[Lapsus]

They trade with them because they are offering medicines that can cure almost any physical or mental illness and that´s a good product to trade, they also were very clear their target were the anti mutant groups, not any other human institution so they are not even targeting a particular nation and they have both history and reasons to keep those groups from developing sentinels they would use to attack their country.

Since the moment Krakoa became part of the UN they are working within the system not outside of it so is to be expected to apply to them the rules that are applied to everybody else.

The gates themselves are embassies, they are not different to other countries who ask for permission first to enter their country.

What they say dont matter, you can or cant believe them, the medicines are a good product until you start to add the extra conditions apart from the fact that Krakoa trade relations are just one sided (only Krakoa profit)

Im not saying that what they are doing is illegal but the UN have no voice in this, once the mutant criminal is take it to Krakoa you lost track of what happens there. In practice Krakoa demands blind trust in how they handle the criminals.

The gates are not an embassy because they are an actual border with another country. A border that you cannot control and that in some cases like USA, there are several of them.

[Steel Inquisitor]

I don't understand people saying that Krakoa existing DOES impact Jennifer? It only impacts her as much as any other country would affect one of us? Yeah, there are obviously larger economic/political changes that would affect her perhaps, but Logan is clearly talking about social impact. She mentioned how (most) humans can't be on Krakoa, and Logan shut down her biased view on it. He's right, there is no direct impact on her, at least currently. I'm sure she isn't privy to any of the behind the scenes political stuff so y'know

There is, she's forbidden form going to Krakoa because of her race, being a super-hero who's saved the world how many tires and knowing any X-men don't count for anything. No human is, that's how Krakoa likes it, it's a closed society by choice - like Attilan is. Actually no, even Attilan was ok letting in humans and treating them like honored guests despite the fact they wanted to go to war with them. They did this with Sentry during Civil War.

[Ferro]

There is, she's forbidden form going to Krakoa because of her race, being a super-hero who's saved the world how many tires and knowing any X-men don't count for anything. No human is, that's how Krakoa likes it, it's a closed society by choice - like Attilan is. Actually no, even Attilan was ok letting in humans and treating them like honored guests despite the fact they wanted to go to war with them. They did this with Sentry during Civil War.

And? she has the rest of the world and im pretty sure there's more private property in new york alone where she can't go to than krakoa in it's entirity. she isn't entitled to a tiny sentient island because shes a hero this is a petty and childish argument that's like how spoiled toddlers trow tantrum's when it's someone's birthday and they can't blow the candles or they don't get a gift even when it's not about them.
Krakoa ISNT FOR HUMANS, get it in your head, they have 99.9% of the world/

It's pure entitlement and greed, jennifer doesn't need krakoa, she doesn't even want to go there how is it a negative?

Is she gonna rise up to every piece of private propriety now? because krakoa wasnt populated but im pretty sure theres golf camps and private country clubs that used to be sacred burrial sites, Is she going to rise up agaist those or just cry like a karen over not being allowed to gentrify a sentient island?
And considering no human superheroes have ever done anything for mutants, they don't deserve to be "honored guests"

[BroHomo]

There is, she's forbidden form going to Krakoa because of her race, being a super-hero who's saved the world how many tires and knowing any X-men don't count for anything. No human is, that's how Krakoa likes it, it's a closed society by choice - like Attilan is. Actually no, even Attilan was ok letting in humans and treating them like honored guests despite the fact they wanted to go to war with them. They did this with Sentry during Civil War.

Yeah Guys aren't allowed in women's bathrooms...Call the Coast Guard lol


The bit about the Inhumans is just flat out wrong...

They attacked him, then cautiously let him chill there cause they looked in his brain and saw how powerful and how utterly batsh!t crazy he was and didn't want to provoke him

[Ferro]

Yeah Guys aren't allowed in women's bathrooms...Call the Coast Guard lol
The bit about the Inhumans is just flat out wrong...They attacked him, then cautiously let him chill there cause they looked in his brain and saw how powerful and how utterly batsh!t crazy he was and didn't want to provoke him

it's literaly that one anoying cousin that has the whole house and a tv and other kids to play with but trows a trantrum to be allowed with the grow up kids and forces everyone to stop having a nice time because his parents are going trough a divorce so he hasn't learned that not everything Is for you and respect for others is a thing.

[BroHomo]

it's literaly that one anoying cousin that has the whole house and a tv and other kids to play with but trows a trantrum to be allowed with the grow up kids and forces everyone to stop having a nice time because his parents are going trough a divorce so he hasn't learned that not everything Is for you and respect for others is a thing.

that's the cousin to gang up on

[Agent Z]

Imma just gonna put this here. It's a fanfiction excerpt where Shatterstar challenged the Quiet Council to bring the alien-looking refugees from his building to Krakoa for their safety:

“Krakoa is an island of refuge-” ‘Star began.

“For mutants,” Magneto cut in. ‘Star’s swords were in front of him. One wrong word or action and the Omega-level mutant would turn the otherworldly metals into an unusable ball. “And mutants only.”

“Israel is not exclusive to Jews and Jews only,” ‘Star responded briskly. His voice carried a hint of the disdain that Magneto practically embodied when not dealing with his own kind. The Master of Magnetism caught the tone, as well as the clear intent of the simple sentence, and fell into disapproving silence.

Would you happen to have a link to this?

[Ferro]

that's the cousin to gang up on

krakoa is that one cousin that's nice but somewha weird and bullied, so the parents are helping out and getting therapy but they need their own space so they lock themselves in their room to have their space, coming out once in a while to say hi.

then that kid wants to see krakoa's room and play with their stuff even tho it's immensly anoying and disrespectfull