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  1. #31
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambaryerno View Post
    Also, I guess the Utopia years no longer happened if Krakoa is the "first time" mutants have had a safe place?
    In what world was Utopia a safe place?

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunty View Post
    Or the different writers have different ideas on what ever Wolverine is a doubting loner who stands with the nation out of personal responcibility as per usual for his portrayl, or another one of the unshaken believers in the Nation of Krakoa as most X-men characters are written at the moment.

    Will be interesting how these moments will be reflected on once the Dawn of X status quo is over.
    I mean I don't think the two are mutually exclusive if everything and makes the Wolverine character more rounded. There are some things that Wolverine has doubts about when it comes to Krakoa not that he would share them with Jen. But he also believes that the nation is a safe haven for mutants and that part of the animosity from the human race towards Krakoa is coming from that fact with a little bit of jealousy baked in.

    Mutants literally took a speck of land in the middle of the ocean and said "This place is for us, you guys stay over there." so of course the human entitlements going to kick in.

  3. #33
    Incredible Member Kingdom X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loke13 View Post
    Yep way to prove Logan's point. This is fear-mongering at its finest in the Marvel Universe humans are considered naturally good so when they do something bad it's a good person doing a bad thing. Mutants are seen as inherently bad so they do something good it's only a matter of time before that monster shows its true nature.

    Since Krakoa's announcement as a mutant nation (give or take 4 months) they have been repeatedly attacked by human elements any number of attacks which could have sparked an international incident. But Krakoa isn't interested in a war with humans ( probably because they know exactly how that ends) as per Magneto's comment their perfectly content flexing their economic power instead of their mutant one.
    100% this. People wanna talk about how “aggressive” mutants are now, but Krakoa doesn’t even have a military. Like any nation they aren’t 100% innocent (looking at you X-Force), but people really like to blow things out of proportion.

  4. #34
    MXAAGVNIEETRO IS RIGHT MyriVerse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Since the comparison you seem to be making is essentially "Apple"/"Orange", I'd have to politely disagree.
    It really isn't apples and oranges. Segregation in any form is the same.

    Krakoa doesn't really offer mutants anything any other separatist nation of the past had either. Mutants are no better protected on Krakoa than they were on Utopia or at Xavier's school.
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  5. #35
    Spectacular Member Solitaryhawk's Avatar
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    Imma just gonna put this here. It's a fanfiction excerpt where Shatterstar challenged the Quiet Council to bring the alien-looking refugees from his building to Krakoa for their safety:

    “Krakoa is an island of refuge-” ‘Star began.

    “For mutants,” Magneto cut in. ‘Star’s swords were in front of him. One wrong word or action and the Omega-level mutant would turn the otherworldly metals into an unusable ball. “And mutants only.”

    “Israel is not exclusive to Jews and Jews only,” ‘Star responded briskly. His voice carried a hint of the disdain that Magneto practically embodied when not dealing with his own kind. The Master of Magnetism caught the tone, as well as the clear intent of the simple sentence, and fell into disapproving silence.

  6. #36
    Incredible Member Kingdom X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyriVerse View Post
    It really isn't apples and oranges. Segregation in any form is the same.

    Krakoa doesn't really offer mutants anything any other separatist nation of the past had either. Mutants are no better protected on Krakoa than they were on Utopia or at Xavier's school.
    Not really because human life isn’t being inconvenienced by Krakoa in the way that Jim Crow Laws actively inconvenienced black people. In an ideal world would Krakoa be open to everyone? Yes. But as of now they’re still establishing themselves and consistently defending against human attacks. Plus, they already have human citizens, so there is clearly space for more inclusionary policies.

  7. #37
    Astonishing Member Omega Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyriVerse View Post
    It really isn't apples and oranges. Segregation in any form is the same.

    Krakoa doesn't really offer mutants anything any other separatist nation of the past had either. Mutants are no better protected on Krakoa than they were on Utopia or at Xavier's school.
    Yeah, this is objectively wrong and you know that. Not only they have literal resurrection available if something goes wrong, they are in a place where they don't have to worry about a mob trying to lynch them at every corner, a terrorist moving next door, or being framed for a crime they didn't commit, plus they have the entire mutantkind to fight for them.

    Also, the segregation in Krakoa: a) Isn't being forced on them by people trying to oppress them; b) Is not being forced on them by Krakoa's leaders (they can live elsewhere); c) Doesn't keep them to be with humans who are not evil or racists (since there are humans that live or visit Krakoa).

    Again, funny how the idea of minorities being pro-active triggers some people.

  8. #38
    Hi, Sage. nandes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solitaryhawk View Post
    Imma just gonna put this here. It's a fanfiction excerpt where Shatterstar challenged the Quiet Council to bring the alien-looking refugees from his building to Krakoa for their safety:

    “Krakoa is an island of refuge-” ‘Star began.

    “For mutants,” Magneto cut in. ‘Star’s swords were in front of him. One wrong word or action and the Omega-level mutant would turn the otherworldly metals into an unusable ball. “And mutants only.”

    “Israel is not exclusive to Jews and Jews only,” ‘Star responded briskly. His voice carried a hint of the disdain that Magneto practically embodied when not dealing with his own kind. The Master of Magnetism caught the tone, as well as the clear intent of the simple sentence, and fell into disapproving silence.
    Mutants' companions are allowed on Krakoa though? We have seen Kyle and Broo getting along just fine
    Last edited by nandes; 09-18-2020 at 03:00 PM.

  9. #39
    Out Fighting for Peace! AJpyro's Avatar
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    Logan throwing shade on Utopia is a given.

    I only care about how the talk of two death experiences go.
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  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by MyriVerse View Post
    It really isn't apples and oranges. Segregation in any form is the same.

    Krakoa doesn't really offer mutants anything any other separatist nation of the past had either. Mutants are no better protected on Krakoa than they were on Utopia or at Xavier's school.
    The main difference is the recognition from most of the nations of the world and the trade. Attacks on Krakoa can impact medicine production and delivery which I think receiving nations would have a problem with.
    Boop! Krakoa forever!

  11. #41
    Sad & Brazilian PrezValentine's Avatar
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    Someone on Facebook said these days "imagine that page of Wolverine in House of X#1 being his first exposure in this new era and then his solo and X-Force just have him doing the exact stuff he did before" and I'm glad Ewing seems to get what's wrong with this and has a way more balanced take on the character than Percy.
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  12. #42
    Spectacular Member Solitaryhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nandes View Post
    Mutants' companions are allowed on Krakoa though? We have seen Kyle and Broo getting along just fine
    You hit the nail on the head right there: "Mutants' companions".

    Xavier's announcement just turned mutant/human relations on a dime. What's happening to the aliens, time and/or dimension-displaced refugees, and others who don't look human and have nowhere to run? Pretty convenient that no writer is telling their story.

  13. #43
    Cosmic Sandwich Metal Sphere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    I love that the mutants have their own place. It makes sense given everything they have been through. I would love to see it last. But sadly I think it will turn into a Mutants vs The world story line. Which would make me sad because it would be lazy writing that dissolve a good idea into just another useless event.
    That's exactly what it will turn into. Not just because we're all genre-savvy here, but because anyone who has read Hickman's work before knows that this is how he does things. There is enough seeded in both the foundations and maintenance of Krakoa (the mutant nation-state) that stinks of a poisoned well from which all the desperate, battered, and parched are drinking from. Right around X-Men #4 launched some of my relatives who heard about mutants new status wanted to find out more, so I gave them my HOX/DOX and X-Men books up until then. Even they could feel the the unstable Jenga tower that was being created.

    Honestly, I'd love to see that storyline and have Marvel make the mutants win. Just smash every other non-mutant species on Earth into the dirt. Humans? Subservient and declawed. Deviants? Subservient and declawed. Inhumans? Subservient and declawed. Molemen? Subservient and declawed. Assorted gods and goddesses? Same. Make it a long form version of House of M or the Phoenix 5 with unapologetic mutant dominance across all books. Just the friction and implications behind that would lead to interesting stories. Would it piss off every other corner of Marvel's fans? Yes, but Marvel stokes fan enmity for sales.

  14. #44
    Out Fighting for Peace! AJpyro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solitaryhawk View Post
    You hit the nail on the head right there: "Mutants' companions".

    Xavier's announcement just turned mutant/human relations on a dime. What's happening to the aliens, time and/or dimension-displaced refugees, and others who don't look human and have nowhere to run? Pretty convenient that no writer is telling their story.

    With all respect. WHo cares. THe Aliens and such don't stay long and are never the focus. WHy should Krakoa house them after all the Death threats? Is America too full? Other nations?

    Krakoa just happened and asking them to take on more is selfish.
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  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    In what world was Utopia a safe place?
    Not that Krakoa is much safer either. Also knowing it will (very likely) all come crumbling down too in the end. One could say the mutants will still not have a safe place for long in the current status quo either.

    But if we are honest, nobody is ever truely safe in the Marvel Universe. In the hands of the changing gods with their magic keyboard the next destructive super natural event or crime is just around the corner for everyone normal humans, mutants, gods or aliens.

    Quote Originally Posted by loke13 View Post
    I mean I don't think the two are mutually exclusive if everything and makes the Wolverine character more rounded. There are some things that Wolverine has doubts about when it comes to Krakoa not that he would share them with Jen. But he also believes that the nation is a safe haven for mutants and that part of the animosity from the human race towards Krakoa is coming from that fact with a little bit of jealousy baked in. Mutants literally took a speck of land in the middle of the ocean and said "This place is for us, you guys stay over there." so of course the human entitlements going to kick in.
    That is a good point. Though for me it feels like the two sides are so far presented as a bit too seperated. Hence getting the impression it's conflicting writers viewpoints. But if they are meant to be both equally part of the character in the current status quo it would indeed offer some rounded characterization.

    Personaly i think any different viewpoints and doubts displayed by various mutants is a good addition, since it rounds the whole setup of better, even if a majority of mutants can believe in the future of the Nation or at least believe it's one possible future for them.

    Also can we really talk of an animosity from the "human race"? As in the collective of all humans on Earth?

    First, mutants are still part of the human race too, so all the failings one could list for the normal humans would apply to the mutants aswell. To seperate them makes little sense for the readers and in universe will just keep a vicious cycle up that will result in no progress being made. Not to forget that ignoring their human nature just means they are more likely to repeat the same mistakes as the rest of humanity. Even if you think yourself above something you can still fall for it, if not deeper.

    Someone like Wolverine who has seen humanity powered or not in all it's good, bad and ugly, from above and below should be aware of that. Though here he might not display in order to shoot down Jen's possible implied accusation.

    Second, how are we supposed to see into 7.8 billion minds of non-mutants in the marvel universe and know: "Yep everyone without powers hates mutants and is jealous for what they have now." therefor knowing if a collective accusation against the entirety of mankind feels warranted? To tar them all with the same brush like this seems a bit lazy, given that in the real world humanity is full of conflicting and varied opinions and viewpoints and the marvel universe is supposed to reflect that.
    Especialy given the many people who have lived in situations worse than those of mutants and yet don't get a magic island that resolves all their needs.
    Not to forget that the reader is normal human after all. So shouldn't the marvel universe be full of people like the readers too?

    Quote Originally Posted by Solitaryhawk View Post
    You hit the nail on the head right there: "Mutants' companions".

    Xavier's announcement just turned mutant/human relations on a dime. What's happening to the aliens, time and/or dimension-displaced refugees, and others who don't look human and have nowhere to run? Pretty convenient that no writer is telling their story.
    Reminds me to Futurama episode with the planet of robots where Leela tried to make the robots aware that she is an alien and not a human, so the whole "crime of being human" thing shouldn't apply to her. "Count. One Eye. Not human." (Though it later got revealed she is a mutant and therefor technicaly of human origins).

    One could joke that Xavier just got tired of otherworldly beings seeing mutants as just humans with super powers, so he passive agressively counted every non-mutant as "human".
    Last edited by Grunty; 09-18-2020 at 05:07 PM.

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