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  1. #16
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Hmm, could have sworn that was a thing in GA Wonder Woman given it's mentioned on the Wikipedia page about Diana's bracelets. Though maybe you're right if that came later given it's unsourced and I haven't read that far into Marston yet.
    *checks* It's not sourced there.

    Might be something to look for in Marston's (and Joye Hemmel's) run.

    ETA: Found a digital copy of Comic Cavalcade #14, which details the consequences of an Amazon-trained woman removing her bracelets. It's quite an interesting story, but very different from later interpretations of how the bracelets work.

    I think going over various depictions of the bracelets could be quite an interesting research project, but not for me right now.
    Last edited by kjn; 09-22-2020 at 11:31 AM.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  2. #17
    Chad Jar Jar Pinsir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    I don't remember that being any part of Marston's Golden Age run, at least not as far as I have read. The only similar thing mentioned is that if her bracelets are chained or tied together by a man, any Amazon loses her strength.

    Looking at the DC fandom wiki, the source for the bracelets being a restraint on Amazon power seems to come from Azzarello. And yes, it's one of the many elements of Azzarello's run that should be buried with extreme prejudice.
    Check out the story “The Crimson Centipede” (Wonder Woman v1 #169). Its technically the last Silver Age story and shows a 'power' of Wonder Woman going berserk when she loses her bracelets. This idea was repeated throughout the Bronze Age as well.
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  3. #18
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Not saying I really disagree with anything here but isn't the bracelets being a source of controlling power that goes back to Marston. Granted it is debatable if that's an element that should really be brought back.

    But yeah, I would have preferred Bats and Supes weren't in this story. Not like she shows up in there Elseworld stuff that often, or when she does if it's beneficial to her.
    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    I don't remember that being any part of Marston's Golden Age run, at least not as far as I have read. The only similar thing mentioned is that if her bracelets are chained or tied together by a man, any Amazon loses her strength.

    Looking at the DC fandom wiki, the source for the bracelets being a restraint on Amazon power seems to come from Azzarello. And yes, it's one of the many elements of Azzarello's run that should be buried with extreme prejudice.
    It happened at least once in the Golden Age. Her bracelets were removed in Sensation Comics #19, where she went berserk and was "free to destroy like a man" before Paula put them back on and they restored control. That's why they were called Bracelets of Submission.

    Azzarello's version being tied to a "God Mode" as a modern update seems potentially less problematic than the original.

  4. #19
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    It happened at least once in the Golden Age. Her bracelets were removed in Sensation Comics #19, where she went berserk and was "free to destroy like a man" before Paula put them back on and they restored control. That's why they were called Bracelets of Submission.
    Interesting! Thanks for pointing out that issue!

    There should definitely be enough material for a nice overview and discussion of the bracelets.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  5. #20
    Mighty Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    It happened at least once in the Golden Age. Her bracelets were removed in Sensation Comics #19, where she went berserk and was "free to destroy like a man" before Paula put them back on and they restored control. That's why they were called Bracelets of Submission.

    Azzarello's version being tied to a "God Mode" as a modern update seems potentially less problematic than the original.
    Thought so, though I guess I assumed it was more common as other places I've seen usually bring it up as often as the bondage stuff and "powerless when bound by men" weakness.

    Though given Dead Earth I wouldn't be surprised if it was Azzarello/New 52 where it was pulling from instead of Golden Agen.

  6. #21
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Interesting! Thanks for pointing out that issue!

    There should definitely be enough material for a nice overview and discussion of the bracelets.
    No prob!
    I have a more difficult time recalling the events of individual Sensation Comics issues than the Wonder Woman ones, but for some reason I could recall that and found it in my omnibus lol. It may have popped up more than once.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Not saying I really disagree with anything here but isn't the bracelets being a source of controlling power that goes back to Marston. Granted it is debatable if that's an element that should really be brought back.
    I for one do not wish to see that re-introduced verbatim as it suffers some of the same problems as Joe Kelly's attempted revision to Jonn's fire weakness a while ago in addition to some obvious problems around gender.

    I did like a couple times where the concept was refined or winked at. An example of the former was during Perez and Berger's extraordinarily tight world building. They reintroduced it as a deep phobia of or aversion to being bound (but especially chained) that all Amazons had. It triggers an "Imperius Rex!" style freak out where they are not as cautious with their powers and go ham.

    An example of a successful wink was under Messner-Loebs when newly minted mob boss Julia Sazia had Cheshire, Cheetah, and Ivy set about capturing the Amazon.
    Last edited by Stanlos; 09-22-2020 at 03:14 PM.

  8. #23
    Mighty Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanlos View Post
    I for one do not wish to see that re-introduced verbatim as it suffers some of the same problems as Joe Kelly's attempted revision to Jonn's fire weakness a while ago in addition to some obvious problems around gender.

    I did like a couple times where the concept was refined or winked at. An example of the former was during Perez and Berger's extraordinarily tight world building. They reintroduced it as a deep phobia of or aversion to being bound (but especially chained) that all Amazons had. It triggers an "Imperius Rex!" style freak out where they are not as cautious with their powers and go ham.

    An example of a successful wink was under Messner-Loebs when newly minted mob boss Julia Sazia had Cheshire, Cheetah, and Ivy set about capturing the Amazon.
    I doubt it'd ever be fully re-introduced as it was, even Azzarello's re-working tweaked it.

  9. #24
    Chad Jar Jar Pinsir's Avatar
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    Okay, I read the rest of Dead Earth and uh, wow, there are things in this book that I would suggest as being a good idea as a joke!

    >>> I roll my eyes whenever I read the word grimdark most of the time (I've legit heard the claim that Man of Steel is grimdark), but Jesus, this is a bit over the top
    >>> The Amazons turning into monsters and Hippolyta being the mind behind them is just super edgy. So Wonder Woman basically genocides her own people...I get that this probably is a reference to Echidna...maybe, but uh, it's still pretty edgy
    >>> Wonder Woman killing Superman, holy crap that came out of nowhere. I really don't like it when people use else world stories to beat up Superman, be it Wonder Woman or Batman. It come across as kind of petty. This stuff seems to happen in a lot of graphic novel too.
    >>> Holy crap, using Superman's neck as a weapon! OMG! OMG! They know, they KNOW! They have to right? This is legit insane.
    >>> Not a fan of the new origin story for Wonder Woman...at least this confirms Hippo is legit crazy
    >>> Eh, I don't buy the reason for the war between humanity and the amazons. So...the US decided to nuke Amazon Island because Wonder Woman was too uppity? That's a bit weak. As a rewrite I would just say mankind nuked themselves because man is wanton to do just that. You don't need to involve the Amazons at all, even if they turn into monsters.

    I do recall liking the first issue, but now that I've read the whole thing I can't say I'm a fan. I think a lot of people might see me as a Brian Azzarello stan, but I don't think Azzarello's work is edgy or grimdark.
    Last edited by Pinsir; 09-22-2020 at 11:25 PM.
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  10. #25
    Mighty Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    Okay, I read the rest of Dead Earth and uh, wow, there are things in this book that I would suggest as being a good idea as a joke!

    >>> I roll my eyes whenever I read the word grimdark most of the time (I've legit heard the claim that Man of Steel is grimdark), but Jesus, this is a bit over the top
    >>> The Amazons turning into monsters and Hippolyta being the mind behind them is just super edgy. So Wonder Woman basically genocides her own people...I get that this probably is a reference to Echidna...maybe, but uh, it's still pretty edgy
    >>> Wonder Woman killing Superman, holy crap that came out of nowhere. I really don't like it when people use else world stories to beat up Superman, be it Wonder Woman or Batman. It come across as kind of petty. This stuff seems to happen in a lot of graphic novel too.
    >>> Holy crap, using Superman's neck as a weapon! OMG! OMG! They know, they KNOW! They have to right? This is legit insane.
    >>> Not a fan of the new origin story for Wonder Woman...at least this confirms Hippo is legit crazy
    >>> Eh, I don't buy the reason for the war between humanity and the amazons. So...the US decided to nuke Amazon Island because Wonder Woman was too uppity? That's a bit weak. As a rewrite I would just say mankind nuked themselves because man is wanton to do just that. You don't need to involve the Amazons at all, even if they turn into monsters.

    I do recall liking the first issue, but now that I've read the whole thing I can't say I'm a fan. I think a lot of people might see me as a Brian Azzarello stan, but I don't think Azzarello's work is edgy or grimdark.
    Thought the nuclear armageddon thing could have worked if it was a like a "what if" of the Perez origin where Ares actually succeeded in starting World War III.
    Last edited by Gaius; 09-23-2020 at 09:23 AM. Reason: added some words

  11. #26
    Chad Jar Jar Pinsir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Thought the nuclear armageddon thing if it was a like a "what if" of the Perez origin where Ares actually succeeded in starting World War III.
    Yeah, its pretty much a trope at this point. The island gets invaded everyday of the week it seems.
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  12. #27
    Mighty Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    Yeah, its pretty much a trope at this point. The island gets invaded everyday of the week it seems.
    Yeah, thinking on it I think there's been at least three uses Themyscira being invaded this year between this and the mainline books.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by lotchj View Post
    Wonder Woman Dead Earth is sick!! I don't mean in a good way!! Always wanting to make WW a murder!! Always wanting to make WW dark! Just plain awful!!
    Hey,I feel ya. Seems like they want to do that with Superman all the time too! I can't stand it sometimes.

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