View Poll Results: Overall has DC done a good job with handling these characters?

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  • YES, DC has done a great job

    17 43.59%
  • NO, they were just publicity stunts

    22 56.41%
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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by king81992 View Post
    In my opinion, Marvel has surpassed DC when it comes to diverse legacy characters in the past few years. DC will push a minority character for a time, but will immediately backtrack once a certain segment of the fanbase starts whining and trolling on the internet. Marvel pushes characters(minority or not) and rarely listens to the backlash. On the rare occasions Marvel DOES cave to certain toxic fans, the minority characters are rarely sent to limbo or derailed and are still relevant. When DC caves, they either derail the character, send them to limbo or both.
    From what I can tell both companies simply sent characters into limbo when they don't sell. It might just be that DC tends to cancel the books faster, and that Marvel has a few diverse characters that sell books.

    DC has also kept characters around despite massive Backlash, like for example "New Wally".

    And in some cases DC just doesn't get out of their way to market a title as diverse (like a last incarnation of Teen Titans for example).
    Last edited by Aahz; 09-22-2020 at 04:34 AM.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    From what I can tell both companies simply sent characters into limbo when they don't sell. It might just be that DC tends to cancel the books faster, and that Marvel has a few diverse characters that sell books.

    DC has also kept characters around despite massive Backlash, like for example "New Wally".

    And in some cases DC just doesn't get out of their way to market a title as diverse (like a last incarnation of Teen Titans for example).
    Hard to get rid of New Wally when he's on a tv show and the guy in charge does not care for OG Wally.

  3. #48
    Relaunched, not rebooted! SJNeal's Avatar
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    Overall, has DC done a good job of handling these characters?

    No.

    Are they just publicity stunts?

    Also no. They all had/have a lot of potential, and I've enjoyed most stories I've read with them.
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  4. #49
    Incredible Member Kingdom X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPSparkles View Post
    Thank you for remembering Damian. DC and fans always forget him. Even fans who campaign for representation routinely exclude him. There are such things as passers.

    Dc is very bad when it comes to representation. Robin is a high profile mantle and Damian is a very popular character. likely one of their most well known and popular character of colour and the only time they have ever made an effort to show him identify with that pert of his culture in a meaningful way was in TT Annual by Glass.

    The same Title weeks later then had him strap bombs to himself because of course all people of Arabic descent are suicide bombers.

    Disgusting.
    You canít blame fans for not counting Damian when writers consistently draw him as white and donít mention his heritage.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    You can’t blame fans for not counting Damian when writers consistently draw him as white and don’t mention his heritage.
    It isn't exactly consistent, since there are artists who drawn him with slightly darker skin.

    That said, he is still drawn as white many times.
    Last edited by Konja7; 09-22-2020 at 06:51 PM.

  6. #51
    Fantastic Member The_Lurk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samm View Post

    1) How did you originally feel about the introduction of a new Hawkgirl (Kendra), Batgirl (Cass Cain), Firestorm (Jason Rusch), Blue Beetle (Jaime Reyes), and Atom (Ryan Choi) in the early 2000¬’s? Did it match the sentiment of others at the time?
    Had a bit of a DC hiatus at that time so I really had no feeling at all about their introductions simply by missing out. I liked most of what I read later when I got back into it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Samm View Post
    2) How would you rate DC¬’s handling of these characters in the last 20 years? Are they still being handled well or were they used as just a publicity stunt?
    Not good. No, correction. Shameful abysmal. Those responsible should be very, very ashamed.




    ... and here is a victim /Harley Quinn sidekick that later get duct-taped to a toilet (by Quinn)




    Quote Originally Posted by Samm View Post
    3) What¬’s your opinion on the next generation of diverse legacies (ie Khalid Dr Fate, Jessica and Simon Green Lantern)?
    Whats not to love about Jessica :-)

    Quote Originally Posted by Samm View Post
    4) Who would you say is the most successful of the diverse legacies?
    From the older ones my guess would be Jamie since he lucked with his own Rebirth run followed by Choi and Cain as core team part of the JLA and Detective Comics run.


    For a company the wants to be diverse they are far too eager to treat classic characters like crap with desperate race/orientation/personality swapping ("Breaking news GL Scott is gay now!!1 Buy our comics now gay people!" The Ray jr: *facepalm*) instead of focusing on characters that are created diverse to begin with; worse; sidelining them as if they are not worth the effort.
    Last edited by The_Lurk; 09-22-2020 at 10:23 PM.

  7. #52
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samm View Post

    Before Marvel did it in the early to mid 2010’s (Miles, Kamala, Sam, Robbie, Laura) and made some huge waves, publicity wise, DC had done a similar thing in the early to mid 2000’s (Jaime, Jason, Ryan, Cassandra, Kendra). Both companies had the idea of introducing a new, diverse legacy for some of their heroes to better reflect the changing demographics of the USA. Of course the characters I’ve mentioned above aren’t the only examples as more came later (ie Khalid, Jessica, Simon for DC, Riri, Adameus for Marvel). In every instance from Miles to Jaime to Khalid to Adameus, the change was met with resentment and hostility from fans, though years later many of them have gone on to be successful in their own right and have large fan bases of their own. Since this is a DC thread, we will focus on the DC characters, but feel free to compare them to their Marvel counterparts as well, especially in regards to treatment and success.

    1) How did you originally feel about the introduction of a new Hawkgirl (Kendra), Batgirl (Cass Cain), Firestorm (Jason Rusch), Blue Beetle (Jaime Reyes), and Atom (Ryan Choi) in the early 2000’s? Did it match the sentiment of others at the time?

    2) How would you rate DC’s handling of these characters in the last 20 years? Are they still being handled well or were they used as just a publicity stunt?

    3) What’s your opinion on the next generation of diverse legacies (ie Khalid Dr Fate, Jessica and Simon Green Lantern)?

    4) Who would you say is the most successful of the diverse legacies?
    1) I wasn't in the fandom at that time. I just find it funny that the first thing Jaime did once in costume went on a space road trip with Batman to save the world
    Oh I didn't like the costume
    Cass Cain surprised me by debuting the first Batgirl series. I didn't know Barbara didn't have one. That kinda felt wrong considering how old and popular she is.

    2) The only one I hear outside comic is Jaime so It's Kinda Suck out of ten

    3) I like all of them. I didn't even know Doctor Fate was an Egyptian thing. Out of the three, I think Jessica catches on the most because of how Tumblr she is.

    4) Out of that list I'd say, Jaime, followed by Cass, then Jessica
    While Jessica is newer and in more outside media, comic fans still talk about Cass a lot more than Jessica. Well, they got more reason to be angry.

    I can't say anything on Kendra because I'm not sure which one that is. I'm assuming the black one since this is a diversity thread, so who's the white one? Shayera? The white one is who I see a lot.

  8. #53
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Dick Grayson and Robin didn't have a solo book until the 90s either, Tim's Robin came first, then Nightwing. So it's no real surprise that Babs never had a solo book before New 52, considering she originally stopped being Batgirl in the 80s.

    About Hawkgirl, yes, Kendra is black. Shayera is a redhead, and now called Hawkwoman.
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  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Dick Grayson and Robin didn't have a solo book until the 90s either, Tim's Robin came first, then Nightwing. So it's no real surprise that Babs never had a solo book before New 52, considering she originally stopped being Batgirl in the 80s.

    About Hawkgirl, yes, Kendra is black. Shayera is a redhead, and now called Hawkwoman.
    Wait. I thought Kendra was Hispanic/Native American?

  10. #55
    Fantastic Member witchboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    Wait. I thought Kendra was Hispanic/Native American?
    The Earth 2 Kendra is black, the New/Prime Earth Kendra is Hispanic/Native American.

  11. #56
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Either way, she has dark skin.
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  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchboy View Post
    The Earth 2 Kendra is black, the New/Prime Earth Kendra is Hispanic/Native American.
    Thank you. I know the Earth 2 one is black, but I don't think I ever saw the main earth version.

    So it's bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Dick Grayson and Robin didn't have a solo book until the 90s either, Tim's Robin came first, then Nightwing. So it's no real surprise that Babs never had a solo book before New 52, considering she originally stopped being Batgirl in the 80s.
    I was also surprised that the Robin series only started with Tim and Batman and Robin Damian, for the same reason. It seems a given that DC Comics should have a Batman, Batgirl, Robin, and a Batman and Robin series, but no, apparently those are pretty new.

    Oh and I didn't know Babs was Oracle until the 2000s because outside comics DC keeps promoting her as Batgirl, so I assumed the comic's the same.
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 09-23-2020 at 06:32 AM.

  13. #58
    Fantastic Member witchboy's Avatar
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    For what it's worth, Dick and Babs in the Bronze Age had regular stories in the Batman Family book, as well as back ups in other comics. So while they didn't have their own title, the Batman Family book served that purpose.

  14. #59
    Fantastic Member witchboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Lurk View Post
    Had a bit of a DC hiatus at that time so I really had no feeling at all about their introductions simply by missing out. I liked most of what I read later when I got back into it.



    Not good. No, correction. Shameful abysmal. Those responsible should be very, very ashamed.




    ... and here is a victim /Harley Quinn sidekick that later get duct-taped to a toilet (by Quinn)






    Whats not to love about Jessica :-)



    From the older ones my guess would be Jamie since he lucked with his own Rebirth run followed by Choi and Cain as core team part of the JLA and Detective Comics run.


    For a company the wants to be diverse they are far too eager to treat classic characters like crap with desperate race/orientation/personality swapping ("Breaking news GL Scott is gay now!!1 Buy our comics now gay people!" The Ray jr: *facepalm*) instead of focusing on characters that are created diverse to begin with; worse; sidelining them as if they are not worth the effort.
    I enjoyed the BoP movie for what it was, but it was a strange choice to stick the Cassandra name onto a character who was completely different from who the character was.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by SecretWarrior View Post
    1. Jaime was obviously the most successful, since he had the best creative team that managed to make him likable. Jason was a coward for 2/3rds of his run, which wouldn't win over fans. He was fine for the 5-10 issues McDuffie wrote, but nothing special. Ryan Choi was never going to work because the Atom concept is supporting player at best. Cassandra was popular and one of the edgiest Bat characters. She could still be a film character.

    2. Not a publicity stunt, but these were never A-list concepts in the first place. Blue Beetle rose highest in terms of recognizability and actually has an in-universe niche as DC's Peter Parker, dealing with space and magic threats. New 52 hurt him in terms of characterization.

    3. Dr. Fate should be an Arab character, especially given the origins of the helmet and the excellent voice work by Oded Fehr on JLU. Should be an adult character, not a teenager. Spellcasters have a harder time catching on, but he could be DC's Dr. Strange, which is kind of the John Constantine role. Right now he's just a half measure since there's no real push. Jessica has staying power as the Supergirl or Batgirl to the Green Lantern franchise. Simon is going to fade into obscurity since there are too many GLs. Best bet for him is joining another core or taking on a new identity. Maybe send him to the future to become a Legion member. Time shifting can de-age him.

    4. Of the ones identified above, Jaime. DC needs to play up the Peter Parker thing though and have him be a good-hearted, smart kid who gets occasional advice from more established heroes.
    You um...do realize that Oded Fehr is NOT Arab? Rather an Israeli Jew? So...not really a good argument. His work succeeded because he has a truly great voice, and is a fine actor. Far too underused IMO. But, regardless, I'd just go with the classic version....which is the version Fehr played. I prefer older, experienced Dr. Fate; I've seen the newbie magic type story played out all too often to want it here.

    As to the others, Jaime Reyes is the obvious stand-out. The biggest mistake they made with him happened before they introduced him, at least in universe, killing off Ted Kord to bring him on. Which didn't need to happen and unnecessarily pissed off Ted Kord fans. Still, they made Reyes enough of a fully realized and decent character that he could stand out and prosper to a degree. The others are a mixed bag.

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