Diverse Legacy: Where Are They Now?

[mace11]

The Earth 2 Kendra is black, the New/Prime Earth Kendra is Hispanic/Native American.

Earth 2 kendra is african american/hispanic.
It's the same for prime earth kendra.
Pre flashpoint kendra is Hispanic but not black.

[Crazy Diamond]

1) How did you originally feel about the introduction of a new Hawkgirl (Kendra), Batgirl (Cass Cain), Firestorm (Jason Rusch), Blue Beetle (Jaime Reyes), and Atom (Ryan Choi) in the early 2000’s? Did it match the sentiment of others at the time?

Most of the sentiment I remember from the time (I was in high school back then) was some of the older fans constantly complaining about these characters without reading a single story they were in. It was like just seeing a character who wasn't white was offensive to them so I didn't take their criticisms seriously.

Then under Dan Didio there was a gradual pushback against "diverse" characters that they had no role in creating (ex. Cassandra Cain being thrown under the bus repeatedly) and over time I just lost interest and drifted over to what other companies and creators were putting out instead.

As far as Jaime, Jason, and Ryan went I liked Jason the most at first but once the original writer and artist quit the book it just lost direction and never got back on track. Jaime was the best handled of the three of them and while I hated what they did to Ted Kord and most of the JLI cast during that time I didn't see the point in taking it out on the new character. Ronnie Raymond's death was stupid as well but those two were in trouble regardless because the editorial didn't want them around and most people were not buying books with them in it. I remember reading Power Company which had original characters and was diverse at that and yet no one was buying it. Ronnie Raymond got added later on and still no one supported the book. Yet all of a sudden these fans now cared about Ronnie once he was dead? I didn't buy it at the time. The slurs and BS thrown at Jamal Igle didn't help matters.

I liked Cassandra Cain and didn't understand why she was treated so badly. Same with Onyx and Orpheus. Two more characters with wasted potential.

2) How would you rate DC’s handling of these characters in the last 20 years? Are they still being handled well or were they used as just a publicity stunt?

Neither. The handling of each character has to be looked at as a case-by-case basis. I hate using the term publicity stunt because it implies that no one would want to read a character who isn't a white male unless if it's done to get attention and it has been said by some fans over and over again going back to when the likes of John Stewart showed up. Was bringing back Hal Jordan, Barry Allen, Barbara Gordon, and Kara Zor-El a publicity stunt?

Unlike Marvel, DC's management was obsessed with their nostalgia and it eventually poisoned any attempt to push characters like Jaime. It was telling to me that the spinoffs handled characters like Blue Beetle (ex. Brave and the Bold) better than he had been handled outside of his own comic. Say what you want about Marvel but they got behind characters like Ms. Marvel, Kate Bishop, Miles Morales, even older characters like Black Panther and Luke Cage in a way that I have NEVER seen at DC Comics.

3) What’s your opinion on the next generation of diverse legacies (ie Khalid Dr Fate, Jessica and Simon Green Lantern)?

I don't have much of an opinion on them tbh because I barely read most of them. Once I realized there were better options out there I just started reading those instead. Far Sector and Naomi sounded interesting but these days I'm more of a trade reader.

4) Who would you say is the most successful of the diverse legacies?
To say that would imply that DC did a great job which they haven't. However, Jaime Reyes was the only one who really developed and grew over time. He also had a push outside of comics which contributed to his popularity. I think Cassandra Cain sold the best but she had the advantage of being a Batman character and selling the best in a dying market isn't exactly a win.

[mathew101281]

The only time I’ve ever seen these legacy characters ever really work is, the character is so obscure that you can replace them without to many people getting upset or the character has been dead for years. If the old character has moved on to a different identity it can work to.

[armlessphelan]

I wonder how much the absolute failure that was Steel (at the box office, not in the comics) played a role in DC shelving that character for the rest of his existence. Yeah, he's been a supporting Superman character, but since the 90s he never had another ongoing.

[Crazy Diamond]

I wonder how much the absolute failure that was Steel (at the box office, not in the comics) played a role in DC shelving that character for the rest of his existence. Yeah, he's been a supporting Superman character, but since the 90s he never had another ongoing.

That seems unlikely otherwise they'd have to give up on the likes of Superman, Batman, Green Lantern, and Supergirl who also had failed movies.

It's more likely that after his series ended if there were any pitches for a new series they weren't greenlit. But that's another problem with DC.

[Dred]

That seems unlikely otherwise they'd have to give up on the likes of Superman, Batman, Green Lantern, and Supergirl who also had failed movies.

It's more likely that after his series ended if there were any pitches for a new series they weren't greenlit. But that's another problem with DC.

Steel as a character does not have the same level of privilege and cultural cred as the rest of the characters you listed. And even their failures were profitable.

[skyvolt2000]

Steel as a character does not have the same level of privilege and cultural cred as the rest of the characters you listed. And even their failures were profitable.

How were Green Lantern and Supergirl profitable?

Both were flops. Green Lantern was so bad that stores wouldn't sell the toys.

Supergirl's failure got the movie rights to Superman sold to another company.

Steel did not have the promotion those two had.

The point stands DC didn't give up on those guys. Heck we have seen other movies BOMB and those characters did not get buried. John Carter, Red Sonja & Green Hornet say HI. Funny they can still get comics unlike many of POC and legacies at the big two.

[Konja7]

How were Green Lantern and Supergirl profitable?

Both were flops. Green Lantern was so bad that stores wouldn't sell the toys.

Supergirl's failure got the movie rights to Superman sold to another company.

Steel did not have the promotion those two had.

The point stands DC didn't give up on those guys. Heck we have seen other movies BOMB and those characters did not get buried. John Carter, Red Sonja & Green Hornet say HI. Funny they can still get comics unlike many of POC and legacies at the big two.

To be fair, Supergirl/Kara died one or two years after her movie. So, DC give up on her for a good amount of time.

[Fergus]

Before Marvel did it in the early to mid 2010’s (Miles, Kamala, Sam, Robbie, Laura) and made some huge waves, publicity wise, DC had done a similar thing in the early to mid 2000’s (Jaime, Jason, Ryan, Cassandra, Kendra). Both companies had the idea of introducing a new, diverse legacy for some of their heroes to better reflect the changing demographics of the USA. Of course the characters I’ve mentioned above aren’t the only examples as more came later (ie Khalid, Jessica, Simon for DC, Riri, Adameus for Marvel). In every instance from Miles to Jaime to Khalid to Adameus, the change was met with resentment and hostility from fans, though years later many of them have gone on to be successful in their own right and have large fan bases of their own. Since this is a DC thread, we will focus on the DC characters, but feel free to compare them to their Marvel counterparts as well, especially in regards to treatment and success.

1) How did you originally feel about the introduction of a new Hawkgirl (Kendra), Batgirl (Cass Cain), Firestorm (Jason Rusch), Blue Beetle (Jaime Reyes), and Atom (Ryan Choi) in the early 2000’s? Did it match the sentiment of others at the time?

2) How would you rate DC’s handling of these characters in the last 20 years? Are they still being handled well or were they used as just a publicity stunt?

3) What’s your opinion on the next generation of diverse legacies (ie Khalid Dr Fate, Jessica and Simon Green Lantern)?

4) Who would you say is the most successful of the diverse legacies?

Jamie is the most successful of the characters listed [Damian Wayne is DC's most successful character of colour. I know he's often not shown as mixed but my kids don't look mixed - doesn't stop them being Nigerian-Irish]

Jessica started off great but suddenly no longer seems to be priority

Cass is popular within comics but BOP botched her intro to movie goers. X-23 and the female from the Boys beat Dc to the market

Firestorm was on flash though I think he was white washed.

Characters like Damian and Cass were introduced perfectly. They were characters 1st and foremost. Not diverse characters.

Their 'diverseness' was secondary. they were character who happened to be diverse. I like that.
Unlike say Duke who there was a lot of focus on his skin colour 'a Black Robin' which hurt the character.

Luke is/was also being setup for the same pitfall with the Black batman headlines. DC PR should get on that. Luke as Batwing has a far better chance than Luke as Batman which is just a gimmick. dc should look to the longterm rather than chasing shortterm shock gains

[Dred]

Jamie is the most successful of the characters listed [Damian Wayne is DC's most successful character of colour. I know he's often not shown as mixed but my kids don't look mixed - doesn't stop them being Nigerian-Irish]

Jessica started off great but suddenly no longer seems to be priority

Cass is popular within comics but BOP botched her intro to movie goers. X-23 and the female from the Boys beat Dc to the market

Firestorm was on flash though I think he was white washed.

Characters like Damian and Cass were introduced perfectly. They were characters 1st and foremost. Not diverse characters.

Their 'diverseness' was secondary. they were character who happened to be diverse. I like that.
Unlike say Duke who there was a lot of focus on his skin colour 'a Black Robin' which hurt the character.

Luke is/was also being setup for the same pitfall with the Black batman headlines. DC PR should get on that. Luke as Batwing has a far better chance than Luke as Batman which is just a gimmick. dc should look to the longterm rather than chasing shortterm shock gains

Firestorm was not white washed. The original Firestorm, Ronnie Raymond, was white and that was the first version in the Arrowverse. Later on, the newer version as Jefferson Jackson was in the show and he was black.