Diverse Legacy: Where Are They Now?

[dietrich]

Honestly, I think Damian looks pretty white in the last image (as white as the white characters in the floor).

What make you think he looks Asian in that image?

the last image doesn't matter the point that matters is that you are debating the fact. Bruce Wayne is Caucasian no one debates that. the fact that Damian is often drawn to look Ethnic coupled with Ra's and Talia's presentation over years = Diverse character.

Not sure what the exact hue has to do with him being a minority. Even if you don't agree that he looks asian in that last picture or dispute Ra's and talia's background. Matha Wayne is still Jewish so however you slice it he is a minority who is mostly hand waved.

DC doesn't do enough for their diverse characters.

They have so many but keep push a handful.

Duke Thomas doesn't need to be a monitor in the next Death Metal to be a success. He needs Scott Synder to stop the gimmicks and write a series starring Duke.

Jamie is popular and while he might not sell gangbusters neither does Red Hood or BatBeyond. Yet they keep going.
Diverse characters need the kind of padding that are given to all other characters.


Why bring in a writer to specifically destroy the tanned Robin's character when all the others got to exit the roll without being demonised. [Glass is so hamfisted he had to tell us that when Damian gave his life to save Dick and Gotham he still went to hell]
So he is evil ya'all. Incase any of you missed it.smh. lol

[Dred]

While not the highlight of this thread, DC finally brought back the first interracial family in their history in the Wests, which includes minority legacy characters. Not that we ever got many stories with them in the past but it's something. I wouldn't say they handled it well...I'd say the exact opposite, really. But they're there.

[Konja7]

the last image doesn't matter the point that matters is that you are debating the fact. Bruce Wayne is Caucasian no one debates that. the fact that Damian is often drawn to look Ethnic coupled with Ra's and Talia's presentation over years = Diverse character.

Not sure what the exact hue has to do with him being a minority. Even if you don't agree that he looks asian in that last picture or dispute Ra's and talia's background. Matha Wayne is still Jewish so however you slice it he is a minority who is mostly hand waved.

DC doesn't do enough for their diverse characters.

They have so many but keep push a handful.

Duke Thomas doesn't need to be a monitor in the next Death Metal to be a success. He needs Scott Synder to stop the gimmicks and write a series starring Duke.

Jamie is popular and while he might not sell gangbusters neither does Red Hood or BatBeyond. Yet they keep going.
Diverse characters need the kind of padding that are given to all other characters.


Why bring in a writer to specifically destroy the tanned Robin's character when all the others got to exit the roll without being demonised. [Glass is so hamfisted he had to tell us that when Damian gave his life to save Dick and Gotham he still went to hell]
So he is evil ya'all. Incase any of you missed it.smh. lol

I just asked because I don't see that Damian looks Asian in that image.

Also, I'm not debating the fact that Damian is mixed race. I've already say that even if Damian looks white (which still happens in a good amount of comics), he wouldn't be less mixed race.

However, my point is that Damian is a special case, because when people wants diversity in comics, they usually want characters that don't look white.

And I know there are many times Damian isn't drawn as white. However, there are many times when he is drawn as white as Bruce too.

[mace11]

I Edited last page or page 2.

Honestly, I think Damian looks pretty white in the last image (as white as the white characters in the floor).

What make you think he looks Asian in that image?

Racially he looks asian to me in the last page(asian or maybe euro-asian asian).

[king81992]

Poll needs more options.

In my opinion, Marvel has surpassed DC when it comes to diverse legacy characters in the past few years. DC will push a minority character for a time, but will immediately backtrack once a certain segment of the fanbase starts whining and trolling on the internet. Marvel pushes characters(minority or not) and rarely listens to the backlash. On the rare occasions Marvel DOES cave to certain toxic fans, the minority characters are rarely sent to limbo or derailed and are still relevant. When DC caves, they either derail the character, send them to limbo or both.

[chief12d]

Poll needs more options.

In my opinion, Marvel has surpassed DC when it comes to diverse legacy characters in the past few years. DC will push a minority character for a time, but will immediately backtrack once a certain segment of the fanbase starts whining and trolling on the internet. Marvel pushes characters(minority or not) and rarely listens to the backlash. On the rare occasions Marvel DOES cave to certain toxic fans, the minority characters are rarely sent to limbo or derailed and are still relevant. When DC caves, they either derail the character, send them to limbo or both.

Pretty much this. There are entire subcultures on Youtube and other forums dedicated to attacking creators, characters, and Marvel at large for their diversity efforts. But Marvel keeps on and while they sometimes cave on stuff like New Warriors they continue the push for Ms. Marvel and Miles largely because they 1. put out good content with them, and 2. understand that a lot of the toxicity is in the grand scheme of things not that big.

DC doesn't even have that issue because there's not nearly as much hate thrown towards Jaime as there is Ms. Marvel or Falcon-Cap. Same goes for Cassandra, who is loved by most fans as well as Aqualad. No reason why they shouldn't be getting a push to the forefront other than the slight push back they might receive and the generally crappy investments made in their stories that make them fail.

[Robotman]

I think they were doing a good job with Jaime for a while and then just dropped him for some reason. For years he had a lot of good mainstream appearances and was featured in solo books and teams, then a few years ago he was just shelved. I don’t think he’ll be able to carry a solo book as it’s pretty difficult for mid tier characters to maintain a monthly, but I would love to see him on a team again. I think unlike Ryan, Cass, and Jason, Jaime had the best chance at succeeding since his look and power set is so different from his predecessor. There’s room in the DCU for both Ted and Jaime because they fill different roles.

[skyvolt2000]

I think they were doing a good job with Jaime for a while and then just dropped him for some reason. For years he had a lot of good mainstream appearances and was featured in solo books and teams, then a few years ago he was just shelved. I don’t think he’ll be able to carry a solo book as it’s pretty difficult for mid tier characters to maintain a monthly, but I would love to see him on a team again. I think unlike Ryan, Cass, and Jason, Jaime had the best chance at succeeding since his look and power set is so different from his predecessor. There’s room in the DCU for both Ted and Jaime because they fill different roles.

A lot of times what happens is that POC gets put in ONE bad story/series and that is it.

Unlike Ric Grayson-no matter how many cry about it-guess where the crying stops? At the store. That store is not going to lessen to the point of axing books like Teen Titans or Grayson or Red Hood or Green Lantern. Those books are going to see a restart.

A book with a POC-does not because some were not welcomed in the stores in the first place. If it's BAD-it's going to die quick. If it's good or decent it can survive like we saw with Silencer, Sideways & New Superman.

But Marvel keeps on and while they sometimes cave on stuff like New Warriors

Marvel has not cave in to the trolls who only take issue with the 3 new POC on that book.

Because if they did-folks would be getting refunded for final order cutoffs, subscriptions and Ebay orders for that Bagley variant that is still being listed on there at $75 and up.
If I get a refund for issue one variant that I ordered-I will let you know that book was axed.
The interesting thing about that book is unlike all the others that got attacked-the creators for that one have been left alone.

Marvel pushes characters(minority or not) and rarely listens to the backlash. On the rare occasions Marvel DOES cave to certain toxic fans, the minority characters are rarely sent to limbo or derailed and are still relevant. When DC caves, they either derail the character, send them to limbo or both.

Marvel stopped caring because many of those books did better as trades. As bad as Black Panther WOW and America were-I saw those books beat up on DC books in trade sales. Black Panther WOW was doing it BEFORE that movie. Even Amadeus Cho's trade pops up as top 100 seller on Amazon so often.

Here is another issue with DC.

Why is it stuff OUTSIDE of mainstream DC does a better job with POC than the mainstream?

Duke has to have a story in Dark Metal in a different universe to get a solo story or spotlight?
What does that say about Batman and the Outsiders and Batman Rebirth books? Where he was suppose to be in yet in most cases was background?
Same with Cyborg in Deceased. Cassandra Cain and Aqualad in their OGNs.
Ridley's Batman?
Ridley's Other Side of DC Universe.

Yeah I bought or will buy some of them but that is not helping any of them long term.

[OopsIdiditagain]

Before Marvel did it in the early to mid 2010’s (Miles, Kamala, Sam, Robbie, Laura) and made some huge waves, publicity wise, DC had done a similar thing in the early to mid 2000’s (Jaime, Jason, Ryan, Cassandra, Kendra). Both companies had the idea of introducing a new, diverse legacy for some of their heroes to better reflect the changing demographics of the USA. Of course the characters I’ve mentioned above aren’t the only examples as more came later (ie Khalid, Jessica, Simon for DC, Riri, Adameus for Marvel). In every instance from Miles to Jaime to Khalid to Adameus, the change was met with resentment and hostility from fans, though years later many of them have gone on to be successful in their own right and have large fan bases of their own. Since this is a DC thread, we will focus on the DC characters, but feel free to compare them to their Marvel counterparts as well, especially in regards to treatment and success.

1) How did you originally feel about the introduction of a new Hawkgirl (Kendra), Batgirl (Cass Cain), Firestorm (Jason Rusch), Blue Beetle (Jaime Reyes), and Atom (Ryan Choi) in the early 2000’s? Did it match the sentiment of others at the time?

2) How would you rate DC’s handling of these characters in the last 20 years? Are they still being handled well or were they used as just a publicity stunt?

3) What’s your opinion on the next generation of diverse legacies (ie Khalid Dr Fate, Jessica and Simon Green Lantern)?

4) Who would you say is the most successful of the diverse legacies?

3.) Jessica and Simon's comic was good. I like Khalid in Justice league dark. It looks like he could be the main Dr Fate.

4.) Blue Beetle by far. He's probably more popular than Ted.

[OopsIdiditagain]

1. Jaime was obviously the most successful, since he had the best creative team that managed to make him likable. Jason was a coward for 2/3rds of his run, which wouldn't win over fans. He was fine for the 5-10 issues McDuffie wrote, but nothing special. Ryan Choi was never going to work because the Atom concept is supporting player at best. Cassandra was popular and one of the edgiest Bat characters. She could still be a film character.

2. Not a publicity stunt, but these were never A-list concepts in the first place. Blue Beetle rose highest in terms of recognizability and actually has an in-universe niche as DC's Peter Parker, dealing with space and magic threats. New 52 hurt him in terms of characterization.

3. Dr. Fate should be an Arab character, especially given the origins of the helmet and the excellent voice work by Oded Fehr on JLU. Should be an adult character, not a teenager. Spellcasters have a harder time catching on, but he could be DC's Dr. Strange, which is kind of the John Constantine role. Right now he's just a half measure since there's no real push. Jessica has staying power as the Supergirl or Batgirl to the Green Lantern franchise. Simon is going to fade into obscurity since there are too many GLs. Best bet for him is joining another core or taking on a new identity. Maybe send him to the future to become a Legion member. Time shifting can de-age him.

4. Of the ones identified above, Jaime. DC needs to play up the Peter Parker thing though and have him be a good-hearted, smart kid who gets occasional advice from more established heroes.

I never understood why Egypt inspired like the OG Dr Fate and Hawk Man + Hawk Woman were mainly white. But Egypt Inspired villains like Black Adam have always been "ethnic".

[Robotman]

I never understood why Egypt inspired like the OG Dr Fate and Hawk Man + Hawk Woman were mainly white. But Egypt Inspired villains like Black Adam have always been "ethnic".

From an in continuity standpoint, Kent Nelson is an archeologist who discovers the helmet of Nabu/Fate in Egypt. So he’s not from the region. Carter Hall is the reincarnation of Prince Khufu. This particular reincarnation just happens to be a white American. Really it’s just because they were created in the 1940s and Egyptian mythology was trendy in pop culture and sci fi at the time.

Black Adam wasn’t a reincarnation or legacy character. He is the original Teth Adam from ancient Egypt.

[OopsIdiditagain]

Power Rangers and Doctor Who are not DC superheroes. Power Rangers are a team, Doctor Who has a tradition of metamorphosizing into a different looking doctor, but it is still the doctor regardless of gender.

Green Lanterns are an intergalactic team and Hawk Man + Hawk Woman are constantly reincarnating like Dr Who.

[Digifiend]

Hawkgirl (Kendra) - I generally think duplicate heroes are a bad idea because they pit the fanbase against each other, and cheapen the hero as they become a dime a dozen. I don't recall her in Geoff John's Hawkman run, so I'm assuming she was JLA? (I have a no Hal no JSA rule, so there are a ton a duplicate heroes in the JLA I'm not aware of.

She's actually part of the current Justice League roster, and had an Arrowverse counterpart in Legends of Tomorrow season 1. Pre-Flashpoint, she originally debuted in a 1999 issue of Justice Society of America.

[OopsIdiditagain]

Talia's mother is Chinese. I can't quite recall the issue but I have read a story with her and she is of Chinese descent

It wasn't for 5G since the instagram post made it very clear. It was for him to learn and deal with the consequences. That has nothing to do with 5G

Not to mention that all these about 5G are just speculation. We don't know the plans but we do they pre-planned to take Robin from Damian and how many times has Tim offered to come back and help?

Destroying a popular minority character is a great way to get readers on board and backing a less popular minority character.

There's no evidence 5G had anything to do with what they did to Damian but that's all besides the point.

It's a bad move to make a part Jewish, part Arabic character into a Hitler/suicide bomber

Pretty sure Ra's is a chinese nomad that migrated to north africa too.

[Aahz]

Pretty sure Ra's is a chinese nomad that migrated to north africa too.

IIRC he was from some asian tribe, that was (look wise) between Chinese and Arabic and had it's own culture.
He iirc killed the rest of this tribe and wiped all records of their existence from history.