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  1. #31
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mystical41 View Post
    The power level conversation happens a lot. It's tiring for all of us. But it happens often because well. You see how DC treats WW and her characters.

    I think that the way Cheetah goes down according to leaks, can give the GP the notion that Cheetah is not very durable. Which is the same thing that happens with the jason todd case and others. I think that they should give Cheetah better showins for that notion to change. I don't expect a high tier that is durable enough to trade blows with Wondy to be put down by you know what according leaks.
    She's always been durable enough to take some hits from WW, which makes her bad news for anyone street level or mid-tier, but she's almost never been as durable as Diana. Her main advantage is being faster, using hit and run tactics, and her unpredictable savagery and divine claws. Diana getting ahold of her should be difficult, but if she manages it and isn't holding back the fight can be over quickly. Cheetah's main power over her now aside from the speed advantage is hurting her emotionally, which is far more interesting. Greater attention should also be paid to ability as a schemer and resourcefulness in using dangerous artifacts.

    Cheetah shouldn't just be a "she hits super hard and is super durable" arch nemesis. Defining things this way is incredibly boring. Lex doesn't need it, and he fights a slightly higher tier superhero than Cheetah does. Superman has taken him out with a literal flick of his finger at times and it hasn't harmed Lex's reputation any.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    I'm not really that bothered by Max being a big villain - Cheetah is the one getting all the spotlight, hype, and love. I don't see Max Lord getting any Barbie dolls. She's the one people will likely remember.
    Yep. People seem excited for Cheetah for being Cheetah.

    Max is getting love for the actor playing him first and foremost, I think
    Last edited by SiegePerilous02; 09-20-2020 at 10:25 AM.

  2. #32
    Spectacular Member mystical41's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    She's always been durable enough to take some hits from WW, which makes her bad news for anyone street level or mid-tier, but she's almost never been as durable as Diana. Her main advantage is being faster, using hit and run tactics, and her unpredictable savagery and divine claws. Diana getting ahold of her should be difficult, but if she manages it and isn't holding back the fight can be over quickly. Cheetah's main power over her now aside from the speed advantage is hurting her emotionally, which is far more interesting. Greater attention should also be paid to ability as a schemer and resourcefulness in using dangerous artifacts.

    Cheetah shouldn't just be a "she hits super hard and is super durable" arch nemesis. Defining things this way is incredibly boring. Lex doesn't need it, and he fights a slightly higher tier superhero than Cheetah does. Superman has taken him out with a literal flick of his finger at times and it hasn't harmed Lex's reputation any.



    Yep. People seem excited for Cheetah for being Cheetah.

    Max is getting love for the actor playing him first and foremost, I think
    Cheetah is not a lex luthor type of character and never was. She is supposed to be designed as a physical threat for WW, something lex never was for Superman. And in Cheetah's case, her role as a physical threat to WW is rarely achieved, because there are more times with Cheetah getting low showings than with her getting good ones. And if she goes down the way the leaks suggest. That means she is not very durable. It is an anti climatic feat after battling it out with WW moments earlier. How do you explain the way she goes down other than low durability? Or maybe DCEU WW is not that durable either, considering the fact she hasn't taken much without her gear. So Cheetah being less durable than WW is even worse. What i'm saying here is nothing ridiculous. I'm talking about the way WW and her rogue tend to suffer from low showings more than other characters. Even though WW is overall well done for the most part in the DCEU. The way her gear has been geeting more important feats than her actual super powers is a let down for me. I'm tired of the first and foremost, the gear of warrior woman and then some of her super powers approach. It's great that WW84 will throw away the sword and shield. But i still need to see my WW and her villains to be treated as powerhouses like they are supposed to be.
    Last edited by mystical41; 09-20-2020 at 10:43 AM.

  3. #33
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mystical41 View Post
    Cheetah is not a lex luthor type of character and never was. She is supposed to be designed as a physical threat for WW, something lex never was for Superman. And in Cheetah's case, her role as a physical threat to WW is rarely achieved, because there are more times with Cheetah getting low showings than with her getting good ones. And if she goes down the way the leaks suggest. That means she is not very durable. It is an anti climatic feat after battling it out with WW moments earlier. How do you explain the way she goes down other than low durability? Or maybe DCEU WW is not that durable either, considering the fact she hasn't taken much without her gear. So Cheetah being less durable than WW is even worse. What i'm saying here is nothing ridiculous. I'm talking about the way WW and her rogue tend to suffer from low showings more than other characters. Even though WW is overall well done for the most part in the DCEU. The way her gear has been geeting more important feats than her actual super powers is a let down for me. I'm tired of the first and foremost, the gear of warrior woman and then some of her super powers approach. It's great that WW84 will throw away the sword and shield. But i still need to see my WW and her villains to be treated as powerhouses like they are supposed to be.
    That is false. That's not how Priscilla Rich was conceived as a character, and Perez created Minerva to be both a schemer and a physical threat. And his writing of her as a physical threat had her rely more on speed than directly fighting Diana, nor should she be written as being stupid enough to throw down with Wonder Woman without some advantage going in. What you want is a feline Doomsday or Zod, and you're setting yourself up for disappointment because she was never that.

    Cheetah is more innately powerful than Lex or Joker and can go toe to toe with her arch nemesis more readily than they can theirs, but that's not all she is or ever was. Joker, Lex, Sivana and Black Manta all go down fairly quickly when their schemes unravel and their male superhero rivals stop screwing around. Why are we judging her by standards and moving the goalposts for her but not for the men? Why is she lame for not being durable enough despite hurting her nemesis in other ways, but Lex isn't (even with alien battle armor)?

  4. #34
    Mighty Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mystical41 View Post
    Cheetah is not a lex luthor type of character and never was. She is supposed to be designed as a physical threat for WW, something lex never was for Superman. And in Cheetah's case, her role as a physical threat to WW is rarely achieved, because there are more times with Cheetah getting low showings than with her getting good ones. And if she goes down the way the leaks suggest. That means she is not very durable. It is an anti climatic feat after battling it out with WW moments earlier. How do you explain the way she goes down other than low durability? Or maybe DCEU WW is not that durable either, considering the fact she hasn't taken much without her gear. So Cheetah being less durable than WW is even worse. What i'm saying here is nothing ridiculous. I'm talking about the way WW and her rogue tend to suffer from low showings more than other characters. Even though WW is overall well done for the most part in the DCEU. The way her gear has been geeting more important feats than her actual super powers is a let down for me. I'm tired of the first and foremost, the gear of warrior woman and then some of her super powers approach. It's great that WW84 will throw away the sword and shield. But i still need to see my WW and her villains to be treated as powerhouses like they are supposed to be.
    I don't think power levels are what really determine if an audience buys them as a credible villain. Look at the Bat rogues gallery, not really much of the A-listers there are actual physical threats to Batman at the end of the day and even the ones who are more defined by their physical threat status (like Bane) have often been a struggle for writers to find a reason to keep them around or do much of anything interesting with them.

  5. #35
    The Last Dragon masterwitcher88's Avatar
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    Look I think its important to show characters and their villains as comicbook accurate as possible. Ideally a final battle scenario between Diana and Barbra would look something like the fights between Baulder and Kratos in GOW, with Diana mostly on the defensive looking for an opening. What we do know is that Cheetah is the reason Diana goes full golden eagle so its not like she isn't going to put up a fight. I don't particularly like the leaks as to how Cheetah falls, but we also don't know the specifics. I can really only criticize the final product.

    Cheetah as 2 PhDs and who knows how many minors. The most insulting thing a writer can do to her is making her 0 brains and barely any brawn. And yes, she is a physical threat to Diana and really anyone in her league. Cheetah doesn't need an advantage really going in, most of the time she holds back because she plays with her food.
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  6. #36
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterwitcher88 View Post
    Look I think its important to show characters and their villains as comicbook accurate as possible. Ideally a final battle scenario between Diana and Barbra would look something like the fights between Baulder and Kratos in GOW, with Diana mostly on the defensive looking for an opening. What we do know is that Cheetah is the reason Diana goes full golden eagle so its not like she isn't going to put up a fight. I don't particularly like the leaks as to how Cheetah falls, but we also don't know the specifics. I can really only criticize the final product.

    Cheetah as 2 PhDs and who knows how many minors. The most insulting thing a writer can do to her is making her 0 brains and barely any brawn. And yes, she is a physical threat to Diana and really anyone in her league. Cheetah doesn't need an advantage really going in, most of the time she holds back because she plays with her food.
    spoilers:
    and she gets to destroy the armor! I think that will stick with people more than how the fight wraps up, especially with how heavily promoted and iconic the armor is becoming
    end of spoilers

    The bolded really needs to be emphasized more. I want writers to remember that she is an archaeologist, and knows where to find dangerous relics and is very willing to use them to create all sorts of chaos. Trinity War revolving around Pandora's Box and not being a Cheetah-focused event was a major missed opportunity, especially as Johns was hyping her up as a key player before it fizzled out into nothing.

  7. #37
    Spectacular Member mystical41's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    That is false. That's not how Priscilla Rich was conceived as a character, and Perez created Minerva to be both a schemer and a physical threat. And his writing of her as a physical threat had her rely more on speed than directly fighting Diana, nor should she be written as being stupid enough to throw down with Wonder Woman without some advantage going in. What you want is a feline Doomsday or Zod, and you're setting yourself up for disappointment because she was never that.

    Cheetah is more innately powerful than Lex or Joker and can go toe to toe with her arch nemesis more readily than they can theirs, but that's not all she is or ever was. Joker, Lex, Sivana and Black Manta all go down fairly quickly when their schemes unravel and their male superhero rivals stop screwing around. Why are we judging her by standards and moving the goalposts for her but not for the men? Why is she lame for not being durable enough despite hurting her nemesis in other ways, but Lex isn't (even with alien battle armor)?
    Minerva, the version being used here. Is a character designed to be powerful enough to face WW physically. You can have the emotional aspect too. But that was never my point. I am talking about the power perspective. I am not asking for a feline Doomsday or Zod. I am asking for a Cheetah that doesn't go down the way the leaks say. If she can take hits from WW, she shouldn't go down the way the leaks suggest. Oh and the Perez introduction had Cheetah matching WW in strength. So i don't see why she couldn't be as strong as WW. A hero is as good as their villains, what's wrong with wanting Cheetah to be portrayed as a powerful oppoent for WW? She is supposed to be very powerful after all. So they need to show it. But the leaks have her going down in a way that is not powerful at all.

  8. #38
    Spectacular Member mystical41's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    I don't think power levels are what really determine if an audience buys them as a credible villain. Look at the Bat rogues gallery, not really much of the A-listers there are actual physical threats to Batman at the end of the day and even the ones who are more defined by their physical threat status (like Bane) have often been a struggle for writers to find a reason to keep them around or do much of anything interesting with them.
    But Cheetah is supposed to challenge WW physically(and emotionally too). So if the leaks have Cheetah going down in a weak way. Then the part of her being a challenge for WW in power is just lost. And i'm tired of Cheetah getting low moments more often than high moments. How can we see Cheetah as a real powerhouse if the writers don't show her in that way? This also affects WW. Who gets her good amount of bad writing moments too. If her so called archy villain who is supposed to be powerful enough to face WW, goes down in a weak way. It puts WW under a negative light too.

  9. #39
    The Last Dragon masterwitcher88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    spoilers:
    and she gets to destroy the armor! I think that will stick with people more than how the fight wraps up, especially with how heavily promoted and iconic the armor is becoming
    end of spoilers

    The bolded really needs to be emphasized more. I want writers to remember that she is an archaeologist, and knows where to find dangerous relics and is very willing to use them to create all sorts of chaos. Trinity War revolving around Pandora's Box and not being a Cheetah-focused event was a major missed opportunity, especially as Johns was hyping her up as a key player before it fizzled out into nothing.
    That is typically how john's writing plays out.
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  10. #40
    Spectacular Member Primal Slayer's Avatar
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    I dont think it will help Cheetah, especially with her seemingly not being the main villain of the film. The way they seem to be going about Cheetah isnt the way I would've chosen to do so.

  11. #41
    Incredible Member Psy-lock's Avatar
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    In most comics Diana beats Cheetah by punching her real hard, I don't think the way she goes down in the movie is any worse. We should see how it actually plays out on screen before making judgments.

  12. #42
    Spectacular Member mystical41's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psy-lock View Post
    In most comics Diana beats Cheetah by punching her real hard, I don't think the way she goes down in the movie is any worse. We should see how it actually plays out on screen before making judgments.
    That wouldn't be a problem. Because i'm sure that WW's hit>>>>>>>the thing that takes Cheetah out in WW84 according to leaks.

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