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  1. #1366
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmeraldGladiator View Post
    To me it felt a lot like Hush, as mentioned earlier, good set up, suggest something earth shattering, but then pull back and play it safer. I understand the desire to play it safe but once that door to something earth shattering is suggested, you might as well go for it because now, just like Hush once cataclysmic opportunity was passed on, when it actually did happen it was met with a meh instead of having done it initially. If Hush was Jason Todd the effect would have been better than what we got when he was brought back later. MCU might do the fox-verse (X-men/FF) integration it won't have as much an impact if they would have just gone for it in WandaVision.
    I for one hope they just don't do it. I want full reboot none of the old actors honestly. WandaVision and the care and effort they took to craft great characterizations of not only Wanda and Vision, but Agatha, Monica, the early days of Wiccan and Speed.

    It's the exact reason I wanted the X-Men rights to go back to Marvel. I would LOVE to get that much attention and care and effort into our favorite mutants. Wanda and Vision have the best love story, relationship of all the MCU now.

  2. #1367

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Well, turning herself into the authorities so the people of Westview can actually feel like she's taking responsibility for what she did to them.

    I feel like they made Hayward more and more of a cliche as they went along. I think it would've been more interesting if he was just an official scrambling in desperation as a result of trauma from the Snap and overreach to try and make sure that never happens again, but then they have him shooting kids.
    That's exactly my point. It could have been, if I had to choose, Obstructive Bureaucrat the whole way through (the bolded), versus starting there but sinking (Hate Sink) into cartoon villainy.

    The only cliche they avoided seemed to be making Monica his successor. Guess that falls to Woo.

  3. #1368
    Extraordinary Member Hiromi's Avatar
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    never would have though that in comic movie during the climax battle my favorite scene would be two characters stopping their fight to discuss actual identity philosophy

  4. #1369
    Inquisitive Dzetoun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    To me this did play out as a guy who was watching his whole life spiraling out of control, but not because of trauma. It was his own ego and status. He thought he had it all worked out only to watch his plan falling apart. He knew that what he had done was going to get out at that point and was just doing anything he could to try and take back some control. To me it was watching a man who knew he should probably never have been in the bosses chair, but once he was there he was so desperate to keep it he would do anything not to be seen as a failure.
    Pretty much. It was asked upstream how Maria ever let someone like Hayward be in charge, and the answer is she may not have had much choice. We were pretty much told in Episode 4 that Hayward became director by literally being the last man standing after the snap and Maria’s unexpected death, vaulting over better qualified people, including Monica. The implication is that he never would have risen that high otherwise. In fact, he himself points out he is still technically an ACTING director, which indicates the folks above him weren’t exactly thrilled at their options. Even then, Monica doesn’t react to him at first with consternation, implying he had never before shown this level of, well, evil.

    As for Nate Grey’s point about Hayward’s successor, it is much too early to know - the man was literally just arrested. Jimmy is in charge at Westview because he called in the FBI. He would have to change agencies to head SWORD (not out of the question, particularly in a comic-book world, but not something done instantly, either).

  5. #1370
    Put a smile on that face Immortal Weapon's Avatar
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    I enjoyed the ending. I was glad that the more overlandish fan theories were wrong because I enjoy how straight forward the MCU is. I like that's avoid the yucky waters of the source material and I want it to stay that way.

    Wanda's costume needs to be more bright. That shade of red just won't do.

  6. #1371
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiromi View Post
    never would have though that in comic movie during the climax battle my favorite scene would be two characters stopping their fight to discuss actual identity philosophy
    That was probably my favorite bit. So true to MCU Vision's character, to try and resolve this conflict with his big ol' brain!

  7. #1372
    Incredible Member green_garnish's Avatar
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    Gotta say what I didn't expect was for them to leave Wanda and Vision's relationship in the same place as Gamora and Starlord's

    I guess also that Agatha would turn out to be Parasite.
    Last edited by green_garnish; 03-05-2021 at 04:35 PM.

  8. #1373
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    It's kind of ironic that this whole incident with Wanda kind of justifies the Accords trying to hold Superheroes accountable but also shows just how ill-prepared and incapable the government is to actually keep them accountable.
    Quote Originally Posted by AnakinFlair View Post
    Maybe at the end, when after taking Wanda's powers she told her that she lied about fixing or saving the spell. But up until that point, a lot of the time I couldn't tell if she was supposed to be evil, or just dedicated to her craft.
    All she wanted was Wanda's power. I think that was her main and only real goal for being there.
    I think she realized that what she did initially, she did by accident. She doesn't quite understand HOW she did it, and so even turning herself into the authorities she could still be dangerous to other. So by leavin to discover exactly what this power is, she can try to ensure she would never hurt people like she did in Westview again.

    Plus, after being locked up in the Raft, I doubt she wanted to go through that again.
    I get it was an accident, and she didn't mean to do it, but she kept the Hex going far, far longer than she should have and after she realized what she was doing. She only really stopped when Agatha forced her to confront what she was doing to the people of Westview. Monica never got through to her.

    She probably thinks she's better off mastering how powers but I'm not sure if that's really justice for what happened here or what she did. She hasn't really made up for her actions here in my opinion.

    (And I don't think having one bad prison experience means you're free to avoid another one if you do bad).

  9. #1374
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    I don’t love that they made Agatha the bad guy, but I have to hand it to Feige. Just when you think he’s jumped the shark, he pulls another rabbit out of his hat. The Disney+ branch of the MCU is turning out as successful as the movies.

  10. #1375
    Incredible Member green_garnish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I get it was an accident, and she didn't mean to do it, but she kept the Hex going far, far longer than she should have and after she realized what she was doing. She only really stopped when Agatha forced her to confront what she was doing to the people of Westview. Monica never got through to her.
    The level of self- deception necessary to do what she did, and keep doing it, is mind control territory. The fact it didn't turn out that way was one of the more disappointing aspects of the show.

    Great fight scenes, but between the weak resolution and the other 80% of the series taking place in a living room, it's one of the few Marvel productions I probably won't be returning to.

  11. #1376
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by green_garnish View Post
    The level of self- deception necessary to do what she did, and keep doing it, is mind control territory. The fact it didn't turn out that way was one of the more disappointing aspects of the show.

    Great fight scenes, but between the weak resolution and the other 80% of the series taking place in a living room, it's one of the few Marvel productions I probably won't be returning to.
    It was basically mind control, more or less, it's just not clear (depending on the episode) how willful she was doing it to the people.

    She didn't seem to realize how harmful it was until it was thrown into her face.

  12. #1377
    Extraordinary Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    That was probably my favorite bit. So true to MCU Vision's character, to try and resolve this conflict with his big ol' brain!
    And of course that scene happened in a library. (which was also significant because it was dealing with Vision's "library" bank)

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    It's kind of ironic that this whole incident with Wanda kind of justifies the Accords trying to hold Superheroes accountable but also shows just how ill-prepared and incapable the government is to actually keep them accountable.
    And yet, as we see in "Spider-Man: Far From Home," heroes are still embraced (unfortunately it was Mysterio ... and to a lesser degree Night Monkey) I would certainly want to see JJ Jameson's rant about Wanda, if he thinks Spider-Man is terrible...

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I get it was an accident, and she didn't mean to do it, but she kept the Hex going far, far longer than she should have and after she realized what she was doing. She only really stopped when Agatha forced her to confront what she was doing to the people of Westview. Monica never got through to her.
    Yes. It's one thing to be in denial about what she was doing, but she then began to justify it saying that she thought she was keeping them safe. Even if that were true, she still took it upon herself to take away their free will and didn't let them even live their lives with their children. Fietro made it seem like she was sparing the children, but the parents like Dottie had to deal with their kids in a coma.

  13. #1378
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    I was a little disappointed the toes of Agatha's boots didn't curl up when Wanda found them under the car.
    Sounds perfect.

  14. #1379
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    I am glad Agatha is still alive. She needs to team up with Loki.

  15. #1380
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    And yet, as we see in "Spider-Man: Far From Home," heroes are still embraced (unfortunately it was Mysterio ... and to a lesser degree Night Monkey) I would certainly want to see JJ Jameson's rant about Wanda, if he thinks Spider-Man is terrible...
    At least the old, "classic" heroes like Cap, Iron Man, Black Widow, etc.

    And Spider-Man's just been accused of murder, so it seems like the new generation isn't at their best right now.

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