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  1. #1351
    【Cool And Good】 The Gold Stream's Avatar
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    witch hunter wanda

  2. #1352
    Incredible Member PsionicHero's Avatar
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    Woke up at 5:00 am to watch this because I knew I wouldn't be able to avoid spoilers until tomorrow morning:
    spoilers:
    Like mentioned before - I think the strength of this show was taking two under developed characters and making them both some of the most meaningful characters in the MCU so far. I had an issue with Wanda when she arrived in AoU because she was a Jean Knock off powerset wise. However this really did the character and Elizabeth Olsen justice. Same for Bettany and Vision.

    I am very happy with how it was done. I am not disappointed at all, I think the MCU is looking to roll out some of the bigger baddies a little slower than we were expecting. I think they peppered hints along the way, and focusing on Wanda, her grief, her love and her awakening as the Scarlet Witch was just top knotch what was needed. Having this culminate in a multiverse shattering, getting demons and mutants would have made Wanda feel too much like a plot device like she's been handled in the comics. With the after credit sequences I think we get a tease of Dr. Strange: MOM & Captain Marvel 2. Which is all I need. I'm excited.

    As far as the Pietro thing is concerned. I am in the minority of the internet: I am absolutely THRILLED he was just some random guy. I wasn't expecting him to be Ralph...since Agatha made it seem like Ralph was her husband for such a long time. Not just a rando-neighbor she took possession of. But I am so happy he wasn't Fox-Pietro. I want to be done with the FoX-Men completely. I want new actors and new versions of the X-Men that actually make sense for the MCU. I don't want them spilling over from the mess that was FOX.
    end of spoilers
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  3. #1353
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    spoilers:
    I really can't help but see the Phoenix comparisons to how they're depicting the Scarlet Witch with this red-hued being of unimaginable power who will bring great catastrophe if not stopped or if the woman can't control her powers. I guess now the MCU probably won't redo the Phoenix Saga for a third time to avoid redundancy.

    Wanda in a proper Scarlet Witch costume! Complete with the headpiece! And it looks glorious! Felt like a mix of her various modern costumes.

    Who needs Scarlet Witch and Agatha when you've got Jimmy Woo using magic to escape those handcuffs.

    It's kind of ironic that Vision's first big action sequence since AoU is him fighting himself...and, ironically, I thought White!Vision's cold and logical voice sounded a lot like James Spader's Ultron.

    So Fietro was Ralph all along. Was Agatha using him as her fake husband the whole time, and only later decided to make him into Pietro? Or was he just on standby in-case she needed him?

    I am kind of disappointed they didn't do that scene from the comics of Monica outrunning Pietro, but I guess she can't master her powers that quick.

    Hayward was getting pretty bad the whole series, but him shooting two kids was way over the line. Like, why shoot the kids and then Monica when she ran in to protect them? Did Hayward not think the kids were real? How the fudge did Maria ever let this dude be in charge?

    Vision is able to stop White!Vision through his greatest weapon...logic. And I guess now White!Vision is around in case they ever want to bring Vision back. He has all the memories now, but not the emotions, like the comic version. I kind of wonder what Wanda will think of him to be honest. Could she put the piece of the Mind Stone she has in him to restore some semblance of the original Vision? Lot of questions thee.

    So, yeah, Wanda really did brainwash a lot of people. It was accidental compared to what Agatha was doing, but she still did it and kept it going far, far longer than she should have and after she realized what she'd done. The people of Westview have every reason to hate her, and I'm not really sure if there's anything she can do to make up for it other than make sure it doesn't happen again. Is losing her family proper recompense? I dunno. Did she properly take responsibility for her crimes? I dunno. She immediately bowed out of there when the police arrived, probably because she can't master her new powers from a prison cell, but is she a wanted fugitive now for what happened to Westview? I can't say it wouldn't be justified.

    So Agatha is now stuck as Agnes in Westview, with Wanda as her keeper. It kind of sounds like Wanda might actually visit her once or twice for genuine advice, so I guess some form of their mentor/protege relationship from the comics might bet kept, albeit in a more twisted and bitter way? At least Kathryn Hahn is still around in case the MCU ever wants to use her again.

    Wanda gets one last night with her family before it all fades away, saying goodbye to her kids and Vision again, and then everything fades away like it was never there. I can't condone what she did, even in grief, but I feel so bad for her.

    I guess Fury is back to doing post-credits scenes about recruiting people, just sending Skrulls in to invite people like Monica to his Skrull space station in the sky. Is that going to turn out to be the real SWORD?

    So Wanda is now learning from the Darkhold...which I don't really see ending well. But it seems like she detects her kids souls in the Multiverse, and that leads to her team-up with Dr. Strange in Multiverse of Madness?
    end of spoilers

  4. #1354
    Extraordinary Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    As much as we might want the best for Wanda or to sympathize with her, I think the writing was too easy on her. Wanda sentenced Agatha to a cruel fate, but Wanda delivers it almost non-chalantly. Then she tells Monica that line about how she can't change how the townspeople see her - placing it on them for their viewpoint, not that she did something horrible to them. And sure Wanda can still just be in a bit of denial and not taking full responsibility,(saying "I'm sorry" to Monica isn't really enough) but then we have Monica letting her off the hook by saying she might've done the same thing... and even Vision earlier saying "I know you'll make it right" or something... but she doesn't. Hayward was wrong, but he wasn't totally wrong about her but the show doesn't seem to allow for that - he's just painted as a bad guy. I would have appreciated a more nuanced approach there since the situation had been presented as grey but then kinda wrapped it up nicely in favor of letting Wanda off the hook where only the bad guys were critical of Wanda, and the good guys didn't seem to have any reservations about what she had done.

  5. #1355
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    As much as we might want the best for Wanda or to sympathize with her, I think the writing was too easy on her. Wanda sentenced Agatha to a cruel fate, but Wanda delivers it almost non-chalantly. Then she tells Monica that line about how she can't change how the townspeople see her - placing it on them for their viewpoint, not that she did something horrible to them. And sure Wanda can still just be in a bit of denial and not taking full responsibility,(saying "I'm sorry" to Monica isn't really enough) but then we have Monica letting her off the hook by saying she might've done the same thing... and even Vision earlier saying "I know you'll make it right" or something... but she doesn't. Hayward was wrong, but he wasn't totally wrong about her but the show doesn't seem to allow for that - he's just painted as a bad guy. I would have appreciated a more nuanced approach there since the situation had been presented as grey but then kinda wrapped it up nicely in favor of letting Wanda off the hook where only the bad guys were critical of Wanda, and the good guys didn't seem to have any reservations about what she had done.
    So, yeah, it seems like in the same situation Monica would have totally brainwashed and basically held a bunch of people hostage if it meant getting her mom back. Like, I understand empathizing with her, but still...

    I feel like they really tipped Hayward too over the edge when he had legitimate reasons to want to take Wanda out. Okay, yeah, the whole weaponizing Vision thing was bad but then he's shooting kids and someone he's apparently known for years.

  6. #1356
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    I agree with some of the sentiment. I feel Wanda needs to make more overt effort to repair the damage.

    I actually hoped Hayward would be working for a future villain down the line because that would explain him going too far.

  7. #1357
    The Nature Boy AnakinFlair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    As much as we might want the best for Wanda or to sympathize with her, I think the writing was too easy on her. Wanda sentenced Agatha to a cruel fate, but Wanda delivers it almost non-chalantly. Then she tells Monica that line about how she can't change how the townspeople see her - placing it on them for their viewpoint, not that she did something horrible to them. And sure Wanda can still just be in a bit of denial and not taking full responsibility,(saying "I'm sorry" to Monica isn't really enough) but then we have Monica letting her off the hook by saying she might've done the same thing... and even Vision earlier saying "I know you'll make it right" or something... but she doesn't. Hayward was wrong, but he wasn't totally wrong about her but the show doesn't seem to allow for that - he's just painted as a bad guy. I would have appreciated a more nuanced approach there since the situation had been presented as grey but then kinda wrapped it up nicely in favor of letting Wanda off the hook where only the bad guys were critical of Wanda, and the good guys didn't seem to have any reservations about what she had done.
    Wanda made things right in the only way she really could- by freeing everyone (except Agatha). There's really nothing else she could have done to make up for the torment they went through.

    Agatha was... strange, to me. I could never quite peg if she was a villain or not. Yes, she sucked the magic out of the coven, but the way it was played I never knew for sure if it was an accident, or on purpose (despite what Wanda said in the mindscape). As for Wanda, yeah, she wanted her power as well, but on the flip side Agatha was an experienced witch who sees this woman with no training making all kinds of trouble with her powers. It could be debated she felt it was for the greater good that she took Wanda's power from her to protect the world. As for her holding the kids hostage- well, she knew they weren't real.

  8. #1358
    The Kid 80sbaby's Avatar
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    So I was wrong about Dottie and Agnes being a red herring but right about Quicksilver being a fake-out. I do wish they said something about Woo's witness simply because Witness Protection is kind of a big deal. Not saying he needed to be anyone special to the MCU but they should have been brought up/shown in my opinion.

    Really looking forward to what happens with the twins and Dr. Strange 2 now.

  9. #1359
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnakinFlair View Post
    Wanda made things right in the only way she really could- by freeing everyone (except Agatha). There's really nothing else she could have done to make up for the torment they went through.

    Agatha was... strange, to me. I could never quite peg if she was a villain or not. Yes, she sucked the magic out of the coven, but the way it was played I never knew for sure if it was an accident, or on purpose (despite what Wanda said in the mindscape). As for Wanda, yeah, she wanted her power as well, but on the flip side Agatha was an experienced witch who sees this woman with no training making all kinds of trouble with her powers. It could be debated she felt it was for the greater good that she took Wanda's power from her to protect the world. As for her holding the kids hostage- well, she knew they weren't real.
    Weren't they pretty clear on Agatha though? I mean she flat out stated what she wanted. "It's what I do". I think she was firmly established as a villian. In the vein of a Loki. There is room for her to blur the lines a bit if the situation calls for it later. I don't think it diminishes her at all. This is our introduction to her and it was great. Plenty of room in the future magic side of MCU to see her again.

  10. #1360

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    Loved it. No complaints really. I mean I guess, if I did...kinda sorta Hayward. I'm glad he wasn't connected to someone else, but they simply swapped one trope for another in the end with him, when I wish they had stuck with one of those two tropes all the way. That and I wanted to see Monica use her powers more but I guess they're saving that for Captain Marvel 2.

  11. #1361
    Extraordinary Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nate Grey View Post
    That and I wanted to see Monica use her powers more but I guess they're saving that for Captain Marvel 2.
    I know there wasn't a whole lot of post-amble, but Monica seemed to really take having powers in stride. Didn't seem at all concerned about getting herself checked out or even seeming at all uncomfortable with it - just a bit surprised. I'm sure we'll see more of that later, though.

    I've been posting nitpicks or criticisms, but overall the show was great! Full-on Marvel fun with great characterization and a fun, experimental format. Looking forward to the MCU doing more out-there stuff!

    Anyone have thoughts about where Vision went? If he has all the memories wouldn't he have wanted to help Wanda? I can understand if he felt traumatized and was reeling from the experience... or maybe he has the memories but no emotional capacity to connect to them? Hopefully we'll find out ... somewhere...
    Last edited by j9ac9k; 03-05-2021 at 12:43 PM.

  12. #1362
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    To me it felt a lot like Hush, as mentioned earlier, good set up, suggest something earth shattering, but then pull back and play it safer. I understand the desire to play it safe but once that door to something earth shattering is suggested, you might as well go for it because now, just like Hush once cataclysmic opportunity was passed on, when it actually did happen it was met with a meh instead of having done it initially. If Hush was Jason Todd the effect would have been better than what we got when he was brought back later. MCU might do the fox-verse (X-men/FF) integration it won't have as much an impact if they would have just gone for it in WandaVision.

  13. #1363
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnakinFlair View Post
    Wanda made things right in the only way she really could- by freeing everyone (except Agatha). There's really nothing else she could have done to make up for the torment they went through.
    Well, turning herself into the authorities so the people of Westview can actually feel like she's taking responsibility for what she did to them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nate Grey View Post
    Loved it. No complaints really. I mean I guess, if I did...kinda sorta Hayward. I'm glad he wasn't connected to someone else, but they simply swapped one trope for another in the end with him, when I wish they had stuck with one of those two tropes all the way. That and I wanted to see Monica use her powers more but I guess they're saving that for Captain Marvel 2.
    I feel like they made Hayward more and more of a cliche as they went along. I think it would've been more interesting if he was just an official scrambling in desperation as a result of trauma from the Snap and overreach to try and make sure that never happens again, but then they have him shooting kids.

    I think it would've been cool to see Monica use her powers to outrun Fietro, but I guess they had to be careful how "good" with her powers Monica was at this point.
    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    Anyone have thoughts about where Vision went? If he has all the memories wouldn't he have wanted to help Wanda? I can understand if he felt traumatized and was reeling from the experience... or maybe he has the memories but no emotional capacity to connect to them? Hopefully we'll find out ... somewhere...
    White!Vision's whole deal is that he has Vision's memories but none of the emotional connection to them. That seems to be what they're going for here.

  14. #1364
    The Nature Boy AnakinFlair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidfresh512 View Post
    Weren't they pretty clear on Agatha though? I mean she flat out stated what she wanted. "It's what I do". I think she was firmly established as a villian. In the vein of a Loki. There is room for her to blur the lines a bit if the situation calls for it later. I don't think it diminishes her at all. This is our introduction to her and it was great. Plenty of room in the future magic side of MCU to see her again.
    Maybe at the end, when after taking Wanda's powers she told her that she lied about fixing or saving the spell. But up until that point, a lot of the time I couldn't tell if she was supposed to be evil, or just dedicated to her craft.


    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Well, turning herself into the authorities so the people of Westview can actually feel like she's taking responsibility for what she did to them.
    I think she realized that what she did initially, she did by accident. She doesn't quite understand HOW she did it, and so even turning herself into the authorities she could still be dangerous to other. So by leavin to discover exactly what this power is, she can try to ensure she would never hurt people like she did in Westview again.

    Plus, after being locked up in the Raft, I doubt she wanted to go through that again.

  15. #1365
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post

    I feel like they made Hayward more and more of a cliche as they went along. I think it would've been more interesting if he was just an official scrambling in desperation as a result of trauma from the Snap and overreach to try and make sure that never happens again, but then they have him shooting kids.
    To me this did play out as a guy who was watching his whole life spiraling out of control, but not because of trauma. It was his own ego and status. He thought he had it all worked out only to watch his plan falling apart. He knew that what he had done was going to get out at that point and was just doing anything he could to try and take back some control. To me it was watching a man who knew he should probably never have been in the bosses chair, but once he was there he was so desperate to keep it he would do anything not to be seen as a failure.

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