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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    Well she's also a woman too, who happened to fall in love with and marry T'Challa. It's not a mistake, it just needed to be handled better than it was.
    Yea it all comes down to execution and it simply didn't work out. I think more effort should've gone into building up the romance to get more fans on board but I enjoyed the marriage for what it was and am fully in support of them moving on. Storm can be both a mutant and a queen, same way Gambit is a mutant and thief-king and Betsy is a mutant and Captain Britain.

    But her being queen failed and there's not much either of them can get out of each other. Storm isn't nearly as relevant as she once was and T'Challa has since completely surpassed her as Marvel's premier black character. Marvel should be investing in the black women in his franchise, whether they be love interests like Nakia or his sister Shuri.

    Why Coates and writers on books like AoW and seemingly Marauders are pushing the relationship between Storm and the BP mythos is quite frankly strange and unnecessary at this point. Marvel needs to give their premier black male hero a stable love interest with no editorial constraints and they need to give one of their best black female characters a genuine push not related to her ex-husband.

  2. #17
    Kurtty Fan Slicknickshady's Avatar
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    I agree with most here. The reason I started the thread is I was browsing the storm thread and I guess I was surprised the connection to Wakanda and Black Panther was as deep as it is now. I was thinking it was just relationship stuff and not as deep as it seems to be. Granted I only have pulled the Storm solo series and no of her in X men stuff. My take on Kitty with Guardians is the same. I never really followed those. I like the Black Panther characters. I love Storm. I don’t need them mixed. What exactly is Storms connection with Wakanda? Again, I made this thread based on what I read in the Storm thread.

    Everybody in the past wanted Coates to get a Storm book and I wouldn’t mind. My issue would be how deep would he make the Wakanda stuff? Would it take away her mutant heritage. After the way Hickman has ruined Moira. I wouldn’t want another writer to ruin Storm next. As a huge Moira fan. I’m still sick with what they’ve done with her.
    Last edited by Slicknickshady; 09-21-2020 at 06:44 PM.

  3. #18
    Astonishing Member Omega Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slicknickshady View Post
    After the way Hickman has ruined Moira. I wouldn’t want another writer to ruin Storm next. As a huge Moira fan. I’m still sick with what they’ve done with her.
    Great, another one of those "I hate that Moira was ruined by making her be alive, literally the single most important person in the world because if she dies, all changes,, and gave her a depth and connection to the X-men mythos that equals any other. I love her too much to not want her to stay as she was- dead and completely irrelevant for 20 years as a footnote to the franchise".

  4. #19
    Fantastic Member frostedemma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slicknickshady View Post
    I agree with most here. The reason I started the thread is I was browsing the storm thread and I guess I was surprised the connection to Wakanda and Black Panther was as deep as it is now. I was thinking it was just relationship stuff and not as deep as it seems to be. Granted I only have pulled the Storm solo series and no of her in X men stuff. My take on Kitty with Guardians is the same. I never really followed those. I like the Black Panther characters. I love Storm. I don’t need them mixed. What exactly is Storms connection with Wakanda? Again, I made this thread based on what I read in the Storm thread.

    Everybody in the past wanted Coates to get a Storm book and I wouldn’t mind. My issue would be how deep would he make the Wakanda stuff? Would it take away her mutant heritage. After the way Hickman has ruined Moira. I wouldn’t want another writer to ruin Storm next. As a huge Moira fan. I’m still sick with what they’ve done with her.
    In the x-men books there is no added history or connection between storm and wakanda/t'challa. Actually the two characters had never met before aside from a marvel team up i think from the 70's where black panther and x-men team up to fight some bad guys and there was a panel mentioning storm and t'challa briefly met as teenagers when they were both exploring the serengeti and then flash forward to 2010 and they got married. We don't talk about kitty joining the guardians and getting engaged with peter quill because we mostly forgot about and it was never mentioned in the comics.

    I don't mind when there's crossovers between different characters and teams and I generally think they're fun when its well writing and not just a cash crab.

    Oh and the storm thread doesn't reflect the feelings of all storm fans or the majority they're just the loudest I guess. They feel like since there hasn't been anything interesting happening to her in the x-men comics these last few years she might as well be in black panther where she got some character development but personally I'd rather we get storm back to her rightful place in the x-men and she continues to guest feature here and there in black panther.

  5. #20
    Mighty Member Ra-El's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    Yea it all comes down to execution and it simply didn't work out. I think more effort should've gone into building up the romance to get more fans on board but I enjoyed the marriage for what it was and am fully in support of them moving on. Storm can be both a mutant and a queen, same way Gambit is a mutant and thief-king and Betsy is a mutant and Captain Britain.

    But her being queen failed and there's not much either of them can get out of each other. Storm isn't nearly as relevant as she once was and T'Challa has since completely surpassed her as Marvel's premier black character. Marvel should be investing in the black women in his franchise, whether they be love interests like Nakia or his sister Shuri.

    Why Coates and writers on books like AoW and seemingly Marauders are pushing the relationship between Storm and the BP mythos is quite frankly strange and unnecessary at this point. Marvel needs to give their premier black male hero a stable love interest with no editorial constraints and they need to give one of their best black female characters a genuine push not related to her ex-husband.

    Romantic relationships among characters of different franchises usually don't go well, all is needed is the writer or editorial of one those franchises wanting it to end for things go off the rails. Also, usually the character of the less popular franchise end up getting craped on as a result of the break up.

    But even when things aren't that bad, the truth is that it will never be as iconic as Superman and Lois, Spider-Man and MJ, Reed and Sue, Batman and Catwoman, Cyclops and Jean, Cyclops and Emma and now Aquaman and Mera. The lack of stability, the fact that both characters come from the different franchises that sometimes are runned by people with different interests will always get on the way.

    Let's look at Storm and T'Challa. When they first got together, Hudlin wanted her, and he had enough pull to have her and T'Challa as a couple, or maybe no one on the X-Men side wanted her enough to fight to keep her under the x-office control. As a result of it, she was basically left out of any major role on the x-books during at time when great changes happened to the franchise as a whole, changes that catapulted character into a popularity that they didn't had before, like Cyclops and Emma Frost.

    Now looking at things from Black Panther perspective, the character and Wakanda are having a large portion of it's mythos tied to a character from a different franchise, that can at any moment be taken away by a different editorial office. Let's say that Coates decides to end his run turning Storm into the new patron godess of Wakanda and having her be the new person in charge of Wakanda mystic defenses. Then 2 months later Hickman decides that Storm was never an actual godess, that she and Cyclops are in love and have them move to Mars to establish a base from Krakoa there. That would make a major part of a 4 years Black Panther run not just invalid, because a lot of pages that should be used to promote a in house love interest to the main hero was wasted on a futureless relationship with a character that the BP editorial have almost zero control over.
    Last edited by Ra-El; 09-21-2020 at 07:31 PM.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ra-El View Post
    Romantic relationships among characters of different franchises usually don't go well, all is needed is the writer or editorial of one those franchises wanting it to end for things go off the rails. Also, usually the character of the less popular franchise end up getting craped on as a result of the break up.

    But even when things aren't that bad, the truth is that it will never be as iconic as Superman and Lois, Spider-Man and MJ, Reed and Sue, Batman and Catwoman, Cyclops and Jean, Cyclops and Emma and now Aquaman and Mera. The lack of stability, the fact that both characters come from the different franchises that sometimes are runned by people with different interests will always get on the way.

    Let's look at Storm and T'Challa. When they first got together, Hudlin wanted her, and he had enough pull to have her and T'Challa as a couple, or maybe no one on the X-Men side wanted her enough to fight to keep her under the x-office control. As a result of it, she was basically left out of any major role on the x-books during at time when great changes happened to the franchise as a whole, changes that catapulted character into a popularity that they didn't had before, like Cyclops and Emma Frost.

    Now looking at things from Black Panther perspective, the character and Wakanda are having a large portion of it's mythos tied to a character from a different franchise, that can at any moment be taken away by a different editorial office. Let's say that Coates decides to end his run turning Storm into the new patron godess of Wakanda and having her be the new person in charge of Wakanda mystic defenses. Then 2 months later Hickman decides that Storm was never an actual godess, that she and Cyclops are in love and have them move to Mars to establish a base from Krakoa there. That would make a major part of a 4 years Black Panther run not just invalid, because a lot of pages that should be used to promote a in house love interest to the main hero was wasted on a futureless relationship with a character that the BP editorial have almost zero control over.
    And on a conceptual level, given enough time and with editorial not a concern, a romance between them could've maybe reached the heights of Supes and Lois or Peter and MJ. There was narrative overlap between her desire to create a peaceful co-existence between mutants and humans and T'Challa's goal to integrate Wakanda globally.

    Both have lots of mystical connections that actually intermingle, the Elder goddess that blesses Storm's bloodline having also been a member of the same pantheon as T'Challa's god. Both are huge environmentalists and strong advocates for Africans. Wakanda could've been a new center of mutant power and an ally to Utopia at large with their own powerful and wealthy mutant population.

    There was a lot of potential to be explored but you're 100% right in saying being part of different offices made it impossible for that to truly develop. The different directions the creatives had in mind made both characters suffer and to this day they remain on separate tracks so continuing the relationship is futile.

    Storm missed out on what amounts to one of the most important eras in modern X-Men history and T'Challa had large portions of his franchise and identity built around a love interest and supporting cast member that was never going to be permanent. The situation was so bad they basically invented a love interest for him in the MCU because all the others were so poorly developed lol.

    I don't see them working as a couple unless it's in some AU where they aren't troubled by these issues. Like the Hudlin alternate reality where Wakanda conquers the world and Storm and T'Challa rule over a mutant paradise or something like that.

  7. #22
    Kurtty Fan Slicknickshady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    Great, another one of those "I hate that Moira was ruined by making her be alive, literally the single most important person in the world because if she dies, all changes,, and gave her a depth and connection to the X-men mythos that equals any other. I love her too much to not want her to stay as she was- dead and completely irrelevant for 20 years as a footnote to the franchise".
    It changes too much. She was great as is. I bet Claremont shares my view.

  8. #23
    Fantastic Member Shadey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ra-El View Post
    Romantic relationships among characters of different franchises usually don't go well, all is needed is the writer or editorial of one those franchises wanting it to end for things go off the rails. Also, usually the character of the less popular franchise end up getting craped on as a result of the break up.

    But even when things aren't that bad, the truth is that it will never be as iconic as Superman and Lois, Spider-Man and MJ, Reed and Sue, Batman and Catwoman, Cyclops and Jean, Cyclops and Emma and now Aquaman and Mera. The lack of stability, the fact that both characters come from the different franchises that sometimes are runned by people with different interests will always get on the way.

    Let's look at Storm and T'Challa. When they first got together, Hudlin wanted her, and he had enough pull to have her and T'Challa as a couple, or maybe no one on the X-Men side wanted her enough to fight to keep her under the x-office control. As a result of it, she was basically left out of any major role on the x-books during at time when great changes happened to the franchise as a whole, changes that catapulted character into a popularity that they didn't had before, like Cyclops and Emma Frost.

    Now looking at things from Black Panther perspective, the character and Wakanda are having a large portion of it's mythos tied to a character from a different franchise, that can at any moment be taken away by a different editorial office. Let's say that Coates decides to end his run turning Storm into the new patron godess of Wakanda and having her be the new person in charge of Wakanda mystic defenses. Then 2 months later Hickman decides that Storm was never an actual godess, that she and Cyclops are in love and have them move to Mars to establish a base from Krakoa there. That would make a major part of a 4 years Black Panther run not just invalid, because a lot of pages that should be used to promote a in house love interest to the main hero was wasted on a futureless relationship with a character that the BP editorial have almost zero control over.
    As a BP fan I would love for the last four year run to be forgotten.

  9. #24
    Mighty Member BlkGldBlu's Avatar
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    I am a super fan for TChalla and Ororo.
    I was not a fan of the in house fighting.
    The couple make perfect sense.
    And beside there's been so much development for her from being in BP . Than years with the X-Men.
    The excuse of not being able to use her due to dibs in being BP is a scam. Wolverine can have three solos and be in two outside books while making guess's appearance in others, while still being a major pillar and player within the XBooks.
    As a Storm Fan you won't get no complaint from me for picking up two books from two different franchise to get my Storm fix is just fine with me.
    But I do believe a BP book should remain a BP book.
    But if Marvel is serious about expanding the franchise. I don't know why we can't have a book show caseing both of them and all the Wakanda .

  10. #25
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    Eh. Coates picking up on a thread that has existed for Storm for ages doesn't make her any less of a mutant to me. Did it need to be connected to wakanda? No. She was already worshipped as a goddess in kenya so people already had faith in her, she was already blessed by oshtur via her heritage and magical potential so i don't think any thing coates did to explore that ruined her but it does kind of suck none of that is explored in the x-books and are instead just hinted at over and over again. It would be nice to see her village her own home village once and awhile here in the xbooks. one doesn't stop or ruin the other. Just last month wolverine was in how many books concurrently.
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  11. #26
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    Ennh!

    The writers (Claremont and Hudlin) had a really good premise that worked for the most part (I do think it was meant to last) unfortunately, Marvel Editorial in general, among other deciding factors (and opinions), just had no clue or thought or inclination on how to carry the marriage forward once Hudlin left and the X-Men were relegated to non-entity status. They just weren't invested.
    Understandable under the circumstances.

    Presently, I do like the connection Storm has with Wakanda via her friendship with T'Challa. There are great story potentials there on the political front with Krakoa being a recognised sovereign country.
    Storm and T'Challa do not need to be in a relationship for the storytelling between the two nations to be compelling...and while I do prefer the "easyness" of what they seem to have now...I would be just as happy if they were written as just dear friends with mutual respect and love (and benefits) for each other.
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Krakoa, FOREVER!!!

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormrocks View Post
    Somehow, the X-Men Writers and Editorial thought that it was reasonable for Storm to have the Mutant Haven in Hell (Limbo) because of a killer cloud. If only they knew somoene who could control the weather... That was just embarrassing really. And her stepping down after IvX was stupid and done only to push Kitty Pryde in X-Men Gold. This is the same woman who moved the X-Men to Australia as to strike at their enemies more freely. She is not afraid of war! Again, idiot writers and idiot editorial control...
    This is one of the things that made me jump off, god that was dumb!
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  13. #28
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    We neither recollect nor speak of such things. The "lost years" along with ALL they entail shall remain...lost.
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Krakoa, FOREVER!!!

  14. #29
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    I'm surprised Coates is still pushing this even tho Ororo got Isekai'd for Age of X-Man and the current state between Krakoa and Wakanda.
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  15. #30
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    Ennh!

    The writers (Claremont and Hudlin) had a really good premise that worked for the most part (I do think it was meant to last) unfortunately, Marvel Editorial in general, among other deciding factors (and opinions), just had no clue or thought or inclination on how to carry the marriage forward once Hudlin left and the X-Men were relegated to non-entity status. They just weren't invested.
    Understandable under the circumstances.

    Presently, I do like the connection Storm has with Wakanda via her friendship with T'Challa. There are great story potentials there on the political front with Krakoa being a recognised sovereign country.
    Storm and T'Challa do not need to be in a relationship for the storytelling between the two nations to be compelling...and while I do prefer the "easyness" of what they seem to have now...I would be just as happy if they were written as just dear friends with mutual respect and love (and benefits) for each other.
    And no Coates involved? Works for me.

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