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  1. #1
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Default Some Pre-Crisis Earth-2 Questions...

    It seems like parts of the Earth-2 history were a little fuzzy due to Superman, Batman, & Wonder Woman never really having clear demarcation between their Golden and Silver Age incarnations.

    Was there a Jimmy Olsen on Earth-2. If so, did he do anything notable? What about Perry White? If I'm remembering right, they established that Clark Kent was given the EiC of the Daily Star over Perry, correct?

    Alfred died of old age on Earth-2, right? When did this happen? What, if any, relationship did she have with Helena Wayne? Batman & Catwoman got married in 1954? Alfred was still around for the wedding, wasn't he?

    Did they ever go into detail about the circumstances of Lyta Trevor's birth? Or why so many of the JSAer all decided to have kids in the early 1960s? Was there some story that Levitz, Conway or Thomas retconned in there wherein the assassination of JFK reminded them of their own mortality or something? Or was it simply a byproduct of Thomas creating most of the members of Infinity Inc. in the early 80s, all of whom were about 20 years old?

    Were there any significant differences in the histories of Earth-2 from Earth-1, aside from the existence of superheroes during the 1940s?

    Thanks for the help!

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    It seems like parts of the Earth-2 history were a little fuzzy due to Superman, Batman, & Wonder Woman never really having clear demarcation between their Golden and Silver Age incarnations.
    Superman and Batman did get clear demarcations, but it was retroactive. Some hold that the publication of Superboy (1947?) was the demarcation for Superman, but that seems to me largely opinion. A clear break for both was their respective wedding stories, both set in 1955.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Was there a Jimmy Olsen on Earth-2. If so, did he do anything notable? What about Perry White? If I'm remembering right, they established that Clark Kent was given the EiC of the Daily Star over Perry, correct?
    Jimmy Olsen, I don't think so. But Perry definitely existed, although he was Lois and Clark's contemporary, rather than their elder (an unusual depiction actually). A story in the Mr. & Mrs. Superman feature that ran in Superman Family in the 1970s had Clark Kent accidentally beat White out for editorship of The Daily Star when George Taylor retired.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Alfred died of old age on Earth-2, right? When did this happen? What, if any, relationship did she have with Helena Wayne? Batman & Catwoman got married in 1954? Alfred was still around for the wedding, wasn't he?
    Alfred was alive and well in the mid-1980s. He played a brief role in the early issues of Infinity, Inc., so it stands to reason that he was part of the household during Helena's youth. However, I don't know if E2 Alfred was ever canonically shown before that, so he might have been retired for most of her life.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Did they ever go into detail about the circumstances of Lyta Trevor's birth? Or why so many of the JSAer all decided to have kids in the early 1960s? Was there some story that Levitz, Conway or Thomas retconned in there wherein the assassination of JFK reminded them of their own mortality or something? Or was it simply a byproduct of Thomas creating most of the members of Infinity Inc. in the early 80s, all of whom were about 20 years old?
    As far as I can recall, the Infinitors pretty well burst out of nowhere. We had no clue the JSA had had kids in any of their previous depictions. But then, the same was true of Power Girl and Huntress when they debuted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Were there any significant differences in the histories of Earth-2 from Earth-1, aside from the existence of superheroes during the 1940s?
    The only one that comes to mind is that Quebec separated from Canada. No idea how peacefully. In our world their attempt at it in the 1970s was as bloody as it was unsuccessful.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Thanks for the help!
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  3. #3
    Incredible Member NeathBlue's Avatar
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    Jimmy Olsen debuted in the early golden age, so I would assume he was somewhere on Earth 2...
    I didn’t know, or had forgotten, that Quebec had gained independence from Canada... Where is this mentioned?

  4. #4
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeathBlue View Post
    Jimmy Olsen debuted in the early golden age, so I would assume he was somewhere on Earth 2...
    Jimmy did indeed inhabit Earth-2 and worked under George Taylor at the Daily Star.
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  5. #5
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    South Africa had got rid of apartheid earlier than on our Earth. That and Quebec separation were both during the Paul Levitz run--the Quebec one was in a J.S.A. story, but the apartheid might have been in a Huntress story, since Richard Grayson (I think) had some kind of ambassador role in South Africa.

    In a Gardner Fox "what-if" story, DETECTIVE COMICS 347, Fox imagines that if Batman had died on Earth-One, Bruce and Alfred from Earth-Two would come over to Earth-One to take up their roles on that Earth (Alfred being dead on Earth-One, at the time). Alfred looks just the same as his counterpart. Since this story never actually happened, it's not official, but it came from Gardner Fox whose mind was perfectly in tune with Earth-Two reality, which is how we know what happened there. Fox was our primary contact with that other Earth--so I would tend to trust him over any other source.

    Roy and Danette Thomas introduced Lyta Trevor in WONDER WOMAN 300 (February 1983). She's younger there than when she shows up in INFINITY, INC. 1 (March 1984). I don't remember anything special about her upbringing. Roy and Danette perhaps had flashbacks in INFINITY, INC., establishing that the Trevors and Halls had family vacations together when their kids were younger--at least, I recall something like that.
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  6. #6
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Thanks guys! This was all very helpful.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeathBlue View Post
    Jimmy Olsen debuted in the early golden age, so I would assume he was somewhere on Earth 2...
    I didn’t know, or had forgotten, that Quebec had gained independence from Canada... Where is this mentioned?
    This was late in the second run of All-Star Comics, #74 published in 1978. The last issue of the title's revival before the DC Implosion got it.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    Jimmy did indeed inhabit Earth-2 and worked under George Taylor at the Daily Star.
    I didn't know about the Olsen thing. I guess it shouldn't surprise me, but somehow it did.

  8. #8
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    Wasn't there some difference about Atlantis too?

    Actually, a mini set in this version of Earth 2 would be a good thing, to set up the whole world for fans who've never even seen the back issues.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by achilles View Post
    Wasn't there some difference about Atlantis too?

    Actually, a mini set in this version of Earth 2 would be a good thing, to set up the whole world for fans who've never even seen the back issues.
    I don't even know if there was an Atlantis in E2. Golden Age Aquaman was an experiment of his father's. The Atlantis retcon came later, but I'm not sure when.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    Roy and Danette Thomas introduced Lyta Trevor in WONDER WOMAN 300 (February 1983). She's younger there than when she shows up in INFINITY, INC. 1 (March 1984). I don't remember anything special about her upbringing. Roy and Danette perhaps had flashbacks in INFINITY, INC., establishing that the Trevors and Halls had family vacations together when their kids were younger--at least, I recall something like that.
    AH! I had actually read the WW 300 story, but forgot when it was published relative to the I Inc's debute in All-Star Squadron.
    Last edited by DrNewGod; 09-22-2020 at 08:23 AM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    I don't even know if there was an Atlantis in E2. Golden Age Aquaman was an experiment of his father's. The Atlantis retcon came later, but I'm not sure when.
    I might be just me, but I was sort of sure I heard something about that. Probably just me.

  11. #11
    Amazing Member mrjames21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    It seems like parts of the Earth-2 history were a little fuzzy due to Superman, Batman, & Wonder Woman never really having clear demarcation between their Golden and Silver Age incarnations.

    Was there a Jimmy Olsen on Earth-2. If so, did he do anything notable? What about Perry White? If I'm remembering right, they established that Clark Kent was given the EiC of the Daily Star over Perry, correct?

    Alfred died of old age on Earth-2, right? When did this happen? What, if any, relationship did she have with Helena Wayne? Batman & Catwoman got married in 1954? Alfred was still around for the wedding, wasn't he?

    Did they ever go into detail about the circumstances of Lyta Trevor's birth? Or why so many of the JSAer all decided to have kids in the early 1960s? Was there some story that Levitz, Conway or Thomas retconned in there wherein the assassination of JFK reminded them of their own mortality or something? Or was it simply a byproduct of Thomas creating most of the members of Infinity Inc. in the early 80s, all of whom were about 20 years old?

    Were there any significant differences in the histories of Earth-2 from Earth-1, aside from the existence of superheroes during the 1940s?

    Thanks for the help!
    I believe that the reason the JSAers had their kids in the late 50's/60's was due to McCarthyism which tried to force them all to reveal their identities or retire. They chose to retire.

  12. #12
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    In the Marston Wonder Woman of the 1940s, there was an Atlantis under the sea. This was divided among two monarchies--one was Aurania ruled by the good Queen Eeras and the other was Venturia ruled by the bad Queen Clea. Later Clea is deposed and replaced by the daughter of Eeras, Octavia who becomes the acting queen before Venturia becomes a democracy and elects her as president.

    Thomas paid a lot more attention to the actual stories from the 1940s than Paul Levitz did. I'm sure Roy used some of the 1940s Wonder Woman comics for ALL-STAR SQUADRON. However, I don't think he ever got around to the Atlantean queens--or tried to make their world fit with the Aquaman of Earth-Two--but if the series had continued, he might have. It's the kind of thing he would do.

    On Earth-One, Wonder Woman had her own Atlantis where Mer-Boy/Mer-Man lived. Then there was the Atlantis of Lori Lemaris in the Superman comics. And there was the Atlantis of Aquaman. Lori and Mer-Boy's Atlantis might be retroactively viewed as the same--since they both had fish tails on the lower half of their bodies. Whereas, Aquaman's folks had no fish tails. And it was later said there were two main cities of Atlantis--Poseidonis for Aquaman and Tritonis for Lori.

    As well, in the 1940s Wonder Woman comics (presumably on Earth-Two), there was an island continent in the Pacific called Neptunia--which was formed from an asteroid that was a broken off piece of the planet Neptune. Wonder Woman defeated Neptunia's tyrant ruler--Solo--and made the continent a protectorate of the United States. The Amazing Amazon then instituted an all-female government there, headed by President Una.
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  13. #13
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    Correction: I meant to type this--Presidenta Una.

  14. #14
    Incredible Member NeathBlue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    This was late in the second run of All-Star Comics, #74 published in 1978. The last issue of the title's revival before the DC Implosion got it.
    .
    Thanks for that... Still got the whole run, 58-74, so will have to give it a read as I haven’t read it in decades.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    I didn't know about the Olsen thing. I guess it shouldn't surprise me, but somehow it did.
    There's an office boy in ACTION COMICS 6 (November 1938) which is assumed to be Jimmy Olsen--which would put him appearing in the comics before the radio show. This office boy keeps showing up until, in SUPERMAN 13 (November-December 1941), he's given the name Jimmy. And in SUPERMAN 15 (March-April 1942), he's given the last name Olsen. But by that time, Jimmy Olsen was fully established on the radio show--he made his first appearance there on April 15, 1940.

    However, this iteration of Jimmy Olsen is more fully developed on the radio show and in the serials than he is in the comics. He's pretty much forgotten in the comics after 1948 (around when Siegel and Shuster were sacked). Yet he remains prevalent in other media and is part of the cast for THE ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN--played by Jack Larson--with the first episode airing September 19, 1952.

    It's after the popularity of Jimmy on T.V. that the comics remember this character's existence and he's brought back as the Jimmy Olsen we all know and love in SUPERMAN 86 (January 1954). And this new Jimmy Olsen is rewarded with his own comic book not long after--with SUPERMAN'S PAL, JIMMY OLSEN 1 (September-October 1954) on sale July 2, 1954.
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