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  1. #76
    Uncanny King-Kamalu lemonpeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    Most randos probably don't know who Wally West is or think he's black.
    most randos also aren't gonna see a grown man and thing "Kid" just because his hair out. especially if, based on what you're saying, most people think of Wallace when they think "Wally West". so they double won't be associating him with kid flash because of his hair since, if they are thinking Wallace first anyway, then they are thinking of Kid Flash being a black kid not a grown white man. so if his hair out it doesn't matter anyway, so it's a viable way to distinguish him as his own Flash without jacking Barry's style. the whole reason the Kid Flash design as we know it now was created in the first place was to distinguish Wally from Barry. It would be like saying Arsenal shouldn't be in red because his coloring is based off his Speedy design.

    I'm not wholly against Wally's old suit as The Flash, someone earlier suggested if they could just give him his old suit but make it blue like his suit is now, in that context I think it could work. but short of that sort of drastic color distinction, having them in an almost identical suit just doesn't seem like a realistic option to me.
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  2. #77
    Incredible Member Midnighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    most randos also aren't gonna see a grown man and thing "Kid" just because his hair out. especially if, based on what you're saying, most people think of Wallace when they think "Wally West". so they double won't be associating him with kid flash because of his hair since, if they are thinking Wallace first anyway, then they are thinking of Kid Flash being a black kid not a grown white man. so if his hair out it doesn't matter anyway, so it's a viable way to distinguish him as his own Flash without jacking Barry's style. the whole reason the Kid Flash design as we know it now was created in the first place was to distinguish Wally from Barry. It would be like saying Arsenal shouldn't be in red because his coloring is based off his Speedy design.

    I'm not wholly against Wally's old suit as The Flash, someone earlier suggested if they could just give him his old suit but make it blue like his suit is now, in that context I think it could work. but short of that sort of drastic color distinction, having them in an almost identical suit just doesn't seem like a realistic option to me.
    Well they're not entirely identical. Wally's is sleek and streamlined and Barry's still has that overly complicated New52 aesthetic.

  3. #78
    Uncanny King-Kamalu lemonpeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midnighter View Post
    Well they're not entirely identical. Wally's is sleek and streamlined and Barry's still has that overly complicated New52 aesthetic.
    it's not entirely identical but they fundamentally are, they don't pass the elementary school test or the glance test. if you look at it at a glance, they're basically the same, and if you asked the average elementary school aged kid to draw them, they would basically be the same. that was the whole point of Wally's Flash suit, it's supposed to be overall the same just with contemporary (for the time) tweaks to make it distinct, but it's still effectively the same costume for branding purposes; just like Barry's initial design v. his current design.
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  4. #79
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    Semiotics.
    Dammit. Now I gotta use the dictionary. Are you happy now?

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    Because it makes him look like Kid Flash. That characteristic is a distinguishing and downright iconic aspect of the KID Flash suit. That is why it looked like that in the first place.
    But Wally was Kid Flash. He established that look. It's his look, in the same way that the helmet is Jay's look. Is John Fox less of a Flash because his hair is out? Of course not. It's a better look, too.

    If Wally was stuck in the original yellow and red Kid Flash suit, it'd be a different situation, but he's not. He's wearing a Flash suit, but with his hair out that pays homage to Wally's original look and also showing that he's moved on.

  6. #81
    It sucks to be right BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Dammit. Now I gotta use the dictionary. Are you happy now?
    Very. Keep in mind that I’m not a native speaker and may have spelled that wrong. Good luck on the search.��
    ConnEr Kent flies. ConnOr Hawke has a bow. Batman's kid is named DamiAn.

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  7. #82
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    Very. Keep in mind that I’m not a native speaker and may have spelled that wrong. Good luck on the search.��
    You spelled it right, but I think the meaning implied by having Wally wear a suit patterned after Barry is worse than wearing one he made himself, even if it was first worn when he was Kid Flash.

    If anything, having him go back to wearing Barry's suit is infantilizing him since that's what he first wore when when he was Kid Flash until he started forging his own path and becoming his own hero.

    The idea that Wally will only be viewed as Kid Flash unless he's wearing a costume that looks like Barry's is kind of odd to me because it implies that only Barry's look is what The Flash looks like. I didn't like it when they ditched Kyle Rayner's more unique costume for one that was more evocative of Hal Jordan's either.

    I have no problem with Wally wearing a costume based upon Barry's, but I think it would be better if he wore something that was more his own, and his evolution from sidekick to adult hero is something that I think he's earned and should be reflected in this costume.

  8. #83
    Astonishing Member Robanker's Avatar
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    What a fun ride. It was so nice to see my boy Wally West again.

    "Batman Who Tries Too Hard." Hah. That was fun. I know TBWL is going to eventually get the upper hand, but this felt great.

    It's a shame it took all this for Wally to get some respect, but I'm glad he did.

    First money I've spent on Flash outside a cool cover in a long time.

    I like the Rebirth suit, but if we're going back to the classic model, I still prefer his hair be out so he's a little more distinct. He doesn't need to visually honor Barry so much since he's alive and the Kid Flash hair out feels very much a Wally thing, so I'd rather keep it.
    Last edited by Robanker; 09-25-2020 at 05:29 AM.

  9. #84
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    Fundamentally, a good superhero look has to pass the silhouette test. Remember this?



    Everyone was going "that's Wally, isn't it?" because of the single-jog DCAU-style lightning symbol and the shaggy hair (this was after Wallace's Kid Flash look was unveiled, with the crew-cut, note). If you used one of his 1980s-early 2000s suits, everyone would just have thought it was Barry. They tried too hard to have near-identical costumes that were just about distinguishing enough in Johns' Flash Rebirth, with the nose-covering cowl and the clip-on metal trim. It really didn't work, especially the cowl, and that was before Barry nicked the symmetrical belt.

    I would say just to run with the blue at this point. I don't like the crimson w/blue lightning combo much anyway.

    [And let's be fair here, the alternate design Booth posted in that "Kid Flash" tweet was pretty awful. Rebirth Wally was definitely better than that.]

  10. #85
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Kid Flash image or not I like his Rebirth costume because it makes him looks trendy and younger because he is younger. I find the Flash costume to be too old fashioned and unsexy for a twenty something fun guy like Wally.

  11. #86
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    One thing I just remembered that I loved about this issue is how it quietly erased the notion that Barry generates the Speed Force. It's now every speedster generating it, not just one person

  12. #87
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SanityOrMadness View Post
    Fundamentally, a good superhero look has to pass the silhouette test. Remember this?



    Everyone was going "that's Wally, isn't it?" because of the single-jog DCAU-style lightning symbol and the shaggy hair (this was after Wallace's Kid Flash look was unveiled, with the crew-cut, note). If you used one of his 1980s-early 2000s suits, everyone would just have thought it was Barry. They tried too hard to have near-identical costumes that were just about distinguishing enough in Johns' Flash Rebirth, with the nose-covering cowl and the clip-on metal trim. It really didn't work, especially the cowl, and that was before Barry nicked the symmetrical belt.

    I would say just to run with the blue at this point. I don't like the crimson w/blue lightning combo much anyway.

    [And let's be fair here, the alternate design Booth posted in that "Kid Flash" tweet was pretty awful. Rebirth Wally was definitely better than that.]
    Agreed on all points. I think the Flashhatton suit was kinda dope honestly. And it definitely didn't make me think Kid Flash. Even more than the red it sets itself apart. Plus, blue light travels faster than red light!
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
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  13. #88
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    One thing I just remembered that I loved about this issue is how it quietly erased the notion that Barry generates the Speed Force. It's now every speedster generating it, not just one person
    Damn you’re right, that didn’t even register. Good, I always hated that retcon from Johns.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    But Wally was Kid Flash. He established that look. It's his look, in the same way that the helmet is Jay's look. Is John Fox less of a Flash because his hair is out? Of course not. It's a better look, too.

    If Wally was stuck in the original yellow and red Kid Flash suit, it'd be a different situation, but he's not. He's wearing a Flash suit, but with his hair out that pays homage to Wally's original look and also showing that he's moved on.
    Well John Fox's claim to fame is being a shitty Flash so not the best choice. He also doesn't have lead potential or visibility.

    I don't get the point of paying homage to yourself. Regardless, when DC's actual character designers say it looks that way to make him look more like Kid Flash and less like The Flash I'm not sure what else to say. That is the literal design intent. It's the same reason he DID show up in the Kid Flash outfit on return. I'd rather leave the anti Wally agenda in the past given the progress we finally made. And your philosophy lines up with that defunct view.

  15. #90
    Mighty Member Waterfall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Kid Flash image or not I like his Rebirth costume because it makes him looks trendy and younger because he is younger. I find the Flash costume to be too old fashioned and unsexy for a twenty something fun guy like Wally.
    Unfortunately a lot of Wally fans like him being utterly boring, in his 30s and vanilla for some reason. I was hopeful that Rebirth would give him a "trendy" reboot but now we are back to circa 2009 Wally, who is spiritually 50 years old.

    Yes the slate is clean for Flash family but Wally's greatest modern problem remains: What's his personality? He's clearly not the "fun loving", quippy Wally his fans make him out to be. He's just Barry but with a terrible temperament now.

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