Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 46
  1. #16
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    5,866

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    I wouldn't call that neutered. I would love a more grounded take with guy who only jumps 1\8th a mile(at best) ,faster than a locomotive, left incredible weights, bursting shell durability... Etc.
    In the Golden Age, when Superman had that powerset he fought enemies even weaker than that, so he still felt powerful and dangerous by comparison.

    It isn't just Superman's powers have increased, he's also fought increasingly tougher enemies.

  2. #17
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    7,859

    Default

    DC tends to get weaker or stronger as a whole. Like they didn't keep Flash at pre crisis speed while cutting down Superman.

    Why? Because it was a mess. Not hard to write a fun story, but more difficult to create a coherent canon. There was a story where he moved the entire population of Earth. How do you factor that sort of speed into every story?

    ... they didn't. Stuff like that would just come and go. Very fun but when you're losing in sales to the likes of Marvel soap opera, not really a recommended direction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laufeyson View Post
    They raised those questions for Thor and Silver Surfer too. I think we have to remember while Thor is now enjoying the place where he is one of the top sellers of Marvel Superheroes comic, he is in limbo for I think 10 years since the Dissasembled events and that's for the same reason as Superman is which is he is too strong, he had a very campy personality and uninteresting villain and cast. And the same can be said with Silver Surfer that struggles to maintain his title because his alien themed stories really unattrative to people.
    Superman has regularly outsold and out muscled Thor, where the very powerful Surfer struggles to maintain a title.

    Quote Originally Posted by Netherman14 View Post
    From when I understood, whenever Superman time-traveled Pre-Crisis he became intangible and thus rendered unable to intervene unlike in the Donner movies.
    He would be intangible if within his lifetime, otherwise tangible but rendered unable to alter history. If he fixes your engine, you're still late because your tire then blows, etc.
    Welcome or welcome back! Please check out the updated
    CBR Community STANDARDS & RULES

  3. #18
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,956

    Default

    I'm pretty sure Byrne and Wolfman said they didn't know what to do with characters that had vast powers like that on a regular basis and they were pretty much put in charge of "fixing" the character when his sales were in the toilet. In general the concept of writing characters with high power levels has become a forgotten art within western comics. At least when it comes to cape stuff. It's really more of an asian niche these days, with things like Mob Psycho and One Punch Man, DBZ, etc.

    As for the Pre-Crisis stuff getting back into continuity. Even if you take a look at just his childhood, the Pre-Crisis and Post-Crisis are telling pretty opposite tales. Pre-Crisis he was a a full blown adventurer as a youngster, Post-Crisis he basically was ignorant of anything outside of his hometown until he was 17-18. Then you've got the matter of the Kents which imo the Post Crisis kind of drank the Batman Kool-aid about death and loss. IDK it's kind of hard to merge two timelines with some pretty fundamental differences.
    Last edited by The World; 09-23-2020 at 12:19 PM.
    Rules are for lesser men, Charlie - Grand Pa Joe ~ Willy Wonka & Chocolate Factory

  4. #19
    Astonishing Member Adekis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,430

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Netherman14 View Post
    From when I understood, whenever Superman time-traveled Pre-Crisis he became intangible and thus rendered unable to intervene unlike in the Donner movies.
    Correct - he could time travel, but not to his own lifetime. Any time he time travels, he becomes spectral if he was already present anywhere in the universe at that time period. It's actually one of the things that really bothers me about the two Donner movies - he can't fcbfdking do that!

    Still, I do miss Superman being able to time travel at will. I agree with CTTT, in that I think Superman should reference his pre-Crisis adventures like Batman sometimes did under Morrison. We got a little of that in the Rebirth era, actually, like Kal telling Bruce about the time he wore a rainbow colored Bat-Suit, to Bruce's confusion.

    Grant Morrison also did something similar in his Action run. You can read a lot of "Classic" Superman stories into the in-between spaces in Morrison's run. For example, in Action Comics v2 # 8, Kal moves into Brainiac's ship and it becomes his first Fortress, but later in Action # 13, he has his normal arctic Fortress. When did he lose the space Fortress?

    It was in Superman # 187, from 1966! Urko the Terrible, a gaseous being set on conquest, invaded the Fortress, forcing Superman to abandon it when he realized how it might draw alien threats!

    Other stories are simply implied, like the entirety of the early Golden Age being present "in spirit" in the way Superman acts with that street level mindset, or the Silver Age in the zaniness of some of the threats Superman faces later on!
    WHEN YOU DON'T VOTE, IT ISN'T REBELLION, IT'S SURRENDER!

    "You know the deal, Metropolis. Treat people right or expect a visit from me."

  5. #20
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Metropolis USA
    Posts
    4,861

    Default

    I don't agree with all of the decisions made post-Crisis but even I have to admit that some kind of attempt to make him more realistic was necessary in order for him to survive. His numbers were in the toilet and it's hard to argue that stuff like Krypto and Superboy and all of the SA stuff wasn't holding him back a little bit. I think at that time that DC only had something like 30% of the market. A year earlier DC approached Marvel to publish their books for them.
    WAKANDA FOREVER! Chadwick Boseman 1976-2020 BLM

  6. #21
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    7,859

    Default

    So there really are different things mentioned, between continuity and the powers. The power thing is a lot like David's grey Hulk in that his powers were scaled to give him a higher ceiling of challenge.
    Welcome or welcome back! Please check out the updated
    CBR Community STANDARDS & RULES

  7. #22
    Courage looks like this Powerboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    5,864

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CTTT View Post
    I liked his powers just how crazy they were, being able to spin the world around time travel...I wish current Supe issues referenced his Pre-Crisis adventures and powers much like Grant Morrison did on Batman
    He kind of was because the power reduction was not across the board as I recall. Superman, Wonder Woman and Kid Flash/ the Flash got a huge power reduction but I think the Green Lanterns and some others stayed about the same.

    Superman at his Silver Age levels is a tough character to write. Most writers did things like have him move planets then be hurt by a giant robot. In other words, massive inconsistency. Others just threw kryptonite or magic at him constantly. The few really good writers gave him quandaries of an ethical and humanity nature that he couldn't resolve justly with a punch. But it comes down to only the very best writers being able to write him properly at those levels of power.
    This is what courage looks like.

  8. #23
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    5,866

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    Superman at his Silver Age levels is a tough character to write. Most writers did things like have him move planets then be hurt by a giant robot. In other words, massive inconsistency. Others just threw kryptonite or magic at him constantly. The few really good writers gave him quandaries of an ethical and humanity nature that he couldn't resolve justly with a punch. But it comes down to only the very best writers being able to write him properly at those levels of power.
    The main thing about Silver Age Superman is that most of his stories were comedies, i.e. they were humorous adventurous stories for kids and that was fine in the '50s, but when comics Post-Marvel started targeting a teenage crowd, and went for some kind of baseline realism, which is to say, superhero stories are default dramatic, then you couldn't really justify the fantasy element of the silver age anymore.

  9. #24
    Extraordinary Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    5,409

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    In the Golden Age, when Superman had that powerset he fought enemies even weaker than that, so he still felt powerful and dangerous by comparison.

    It isn't just Superman's powers have increased, he's also fought increasingly tougher enemies.
    I don't care either way. Every fleischer cartoon had him struggle to pull off a feat.That's all that is needed really.Moreover,i want competent superman more than powerful one.Finaly,the character is an overdog not one punch man.He is powerful.but,ain't invincible .Goldenage atleast for starters would be great for me.

  10. #25
    Incredible Member Laufeyson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    509

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The World View Post
    At least when it comes to cape stuff. It's really more of an asian niche these days, with things like Mob Psycho and One Punch Man, DBZ, etc.
    Well, you can't blame them as cool as Mob Psycho, One Punch Man, or DBZ, they are not Silver Age Superman's level crazy. I mean as strong as Ultra Instinct Goku is Silver Age Superman is just pure bullshit power and not to mention it's not that the Asian market (South Korea and Japan) loves to write OP character, but the strange market that they please love OP character because they can just self-instert to them for how bland they are. So yeah.
    Akui, Kyōfu, Fun'nu, Zōo, Zetsubō, Tōsō, Satsui, Hametsu, Zetsumetsu, Metsubō

    PERFECT CONCLUSION: LEARNING END

  11. #26
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    24,346

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ra-El View Post
    Basically this. For DC, the notion that Superman is te most powerful hero is more useful than actually making him the most powerful. So when they need to establish a new threat or show how competent a hero is, they only need to have them beating Superman and the public gets the message.

    The new Suicide Squad game is a good example of this, they could have used Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, Flash or any other JL member, but they chose Superman, because they new that by using him, they would establish the stakes much easier and the wow factor would be bigger. Eventually the knowledge that we, fans of comics have, that Superman would never win a fight against any "underdog" will branch to the general audiences too, then maybe we will have a pause on that kind of use for the character. Maybe Wonder Woman is the next one.
    They're using the entire Justice League not just Superman. The subtitle of the game is "Kill The Justice League". And I'd argue WW gets this treatment just as much if not more than Superman.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 10-01-2020 at 01:28 PM.

  12. #27
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,091

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    I don't care either way. Every fleischer cartoon had him struggle to pull off a feat.That's all that is needed really.Moreover,i want competent superman more than powerful one.Finaly,the character is an overdog not one punch man.He is powerful.but,ain't invincible .Goldenage atleast for starters would be great for me.
    I don't know. I find the Fleischer struggling a bit boring. The story beats are always the hero is knocked back on his feet and then puts his back into it and triumphs. A challenge isn't really a challenge to me if the hero is always going to overcome it. I'd prefer that if you have the challenge be a 10 on the scale that Superman not find a way to achieve 11 in order to triumph. Either give me a price that Superman has to pay for getting to 11 or make him find a way to overcome the challenge that doesn't involve overpowering it.

  13. #28
    Mighty Member Johnny Thunders!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    WGBS
    Posts
    1,877

    Default

    I've said it before and I'll say it again. Golden Age Superman is the most powerful being in his Universe. I think it's not until Mxyzptlk that he ever meets anyone in his power class. Superman is almost a Bugs Bunny or Popeye like figure in the Golden Age.

  14. #29
    Courage looks like this Powerboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    5,864

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    The main thing about Silver Age Superman is that most of his stories were comedies, i.e. they were humorous adventurous stories for kids and that was fine in the '50s, but when comics Post-Marvel started targeting a teenage crowd, and went for some kind of baseline realism, which is to say, superhero stories are default dramatic, then you couldn't really justify the fantasy element of the silver age anymore.
    Yes. Superboy towing a veritable galaxy of planets is not going to work today which is ironic because you could have Q or Galactus do the same thing with their "mental powers" or "cosmic powers" and it would be completely accepted because the method by which they do it is complete fantasy while Superboy with the chain is laughed at. The funniest thing is nobody necessarily dismisses the strength, speed and durability it would take, just the chain.

    As a little kid, those stories were dramatic but so was the Adam West Batman. But, for the adult audience, at least the audience that still reads comics, they are too whimsical.

    I wonder sometimes if it's a "chicken vs. egg" argument. I remember a debate that occurred about Spike on "Buffy" where some people contended that the Spike of later seasons was very popular and someone else argued that he was, with the people still watching the show but those people were a fraction of what the audience was at the show's height. Everybody else stopped watching.

    To be sure, there was a massive drop-off of the comics audience before the changes which led to them. But I do wonder if the push towards a very deconstructionist style resulted in some people loving it but, in the long term, a greater drop-off.

    Regardless, it is what it is today, a niche market where the movies, shows and merchandise are what matters.
    This is what courage looks like.

  15. #30
    Courage looks like this Powerboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    5,864

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Clark View Post
    I don't know. I find the Fleischer struggling a bit boring. The story beats are always the hero is knocked back on his feet and then puts his back into it and triumphs. A challenge isn't really a challenge to me if the hero is always going to overcome it. I'd prefer that if you have the challenge be a 10 on the scale that Superman not find a way to achieve 11 in order to triumph. Either give me a price that Superman has to pay for getting to 11 or make him find a way to overcome the challenge that doesn't involve overpowering it.
    I liked the Fleischer style. One story that stands out, however silly in many ways, was the one where he had to stop a meteor and he can't do it but he can single-handedly make the jammed machine designed to do it work.
    This is what courage looks like.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •