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  1. #76
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Honestly, I’ve become rather unsympathetic to the statement “Wonder Woman is hard to write for”. Mainly because the more I hear it, the more it sounds like an excuse writers or fans of said writers want to give when a story they wrote involving her or about her didn’t set the world on fire or was recieved well.
    We'll see if her newfound popularity results in a more diverse array of creators doing stories with her. If they manage to create more great stories than the previous eight decades, then I'll agree with you.

    But if the character is left with the same handful of great stories amidst a sea of mediocrity and well-intentioned misfires, then I think we'll have to admit that Wonder Woman is a great character, but not easy to write for.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Power. The wealthy have it while the rest of the world largely doesn't.

    It's the reason why your boss flirting with you is viewed significantly differently than if a coworker does the same thing.

    A traumatized billionaire dressing up in body armor to beat the $#@! out of the mentally ill works just fine if it's firmly in the realm of fantasy wish fulfilment, though.

    On the other hand, the MCU's Tony Stark worked very well for me, because each movie took pains to explore Stark's actions and the moral implications of them. Nolan's films tried to do that, as well, but did a pretty piss poor job of doing so in the end, and just ended up falling back on fantastical secret societies of ninja assassins despite the realistic trappings.

    Granted, Nolan's Batman movies are beloved, so what do I know?

    As i said though the list of original communist and anarchist theorists is nearly exclusively made up of landowners, minor royalty, and industrialists. Even the head of kodak uk was an anarchist

    It does not follow that billionaire = self interested lynch pin of power. Plenty of uber rich found themselves in prison or on the run for preaching anarchism / communism etc etc.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by iron chimp View Post
    As i said though the list of original communist and anarchist theorists is nearly exclusively made up of landowners, minor royalty, and industrialists. Even the head of kodak uk was an anarchist

    It does not follow that billionaire = self interested lynch pin of power. Plenty of uber rich found themselves in prison or on the run for preaching anarchism / communism etc etc.
    I'm still not following. Where did I say that all billionaires are self-interested lynchpins of power? Are you having a different conversation with someone else and getting me confused with them?

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    I'm still not following. Where did I say that all billionaires are self-interested lynchpins of power? Are you having a different conversation with someone else and getting me confused with them?
    Im saying that many of the poster boys of emancipation of working class or whatever one wants to call it were billionaires / landed gentry / industrialists.

    It does not automatically follow that billionaire = power when there is a tradition of billionaires etc devolving their power to working class alongside a tradition of billionaires as the jackboot of power.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by iron chimp View Post
    Im saying that many of the poster boys of emancipation of working class or whatever one wants to call it were billionaires / landed gentry / industrialists.

    It does not automatically follow that billionaire = power when there is a tradition of billionaires etc devolving their power to working class alongside a tradition of billionaires as the jackboot of power.
    And I am not seeing what any of that has to do with what we're talking about in regards to Batman.

  6. #81
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    I honestly think the DC Universe as a whole is best set in a time before the widespread use of cell phones and the internet. Perhaps keep everything around the timing of the New Frontier
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pohzee View Post
    I honestly think the DC Universe as a whole is best set in a time before the widespread use of cell phones and the internet.
    I'm not gonna lie that I had that thought from time to time. I think it's because DC hasn't marketed their characters as well as Marvel has for a few decades now. We think of them as more "old-school" as a consequence of that even though they technically aren't.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    And I am not seeing what any of that has to do with what we're talking about in regards to Batman.
    Yr the one drawing the comparison between batman and a contemporary billionaire beating up poor people.

    Im making the very basic point that just because hes a billionaire doesnt equate to classist power by using real life examples from history.

  9. #84
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    Another that comes to mind is the original Crimson Avenger. Even if you strip the racist characterization of our Wing, and made him something closer to his inspiration, Kato, the idea of the mystery man and his East Asian chauffeur/servant/enforcer isn't going to work as well today.

  10. #85
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony View Post
    Batman and the like are the most problematic. The Bat super crime computer is now a phone, there is no possible way he could keep his identity with facial recognition and satellites tracking his Batmobile among so many other reasons the character is unrealistic in the modern world.
    Secret identities as a whole should be problematic these days, that's true, but at least Batman wears a cowl. The ones who only wear domino masks (like Nightwing) should certainly be outed by facial recognition (as should the Superman family, who don't wear masks at all). Cowl wearers, not so sure, since more of the face is hidden.
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  11. #86
    Extraordinary Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Secret identities as a whole should be problematic these days, that's true, but at least Batman wears a cowl. The ones who only wear domino masks (like Nightwing) should certainly be outed by facial recognition (as should the Superman family, who don't wear masks at all). Cowl wearers, not so sure, since more of the face is hidden.
    Why does deadpool talk to mid air? I know the guy is crazy. So, shouldn't people in universe put him in mental asylum. How the hell does harley use that giant hammer? You would think the weight distribution would be bad.People have taken superman's secret id so seriously. Sheesh!this whole thing is kinda like batmobile's tires going flat.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 09-25-2020 at 06:20 PM.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony View Post
    Batman and the like are the most problematic. The Bat super crime computer is now a phone, there is no possible way he could keep his identity with facial recognition and satellites tracking his Batmobile among so many other reasons the character is unrealistic in the modern world.
    Do you really think that a persona as rich as him can't afford good security?

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by iron chimp View Post
    Yr the one drawing the comparison between batman and a contemporary billionaire beating up poor people.

    Im making the very basic point that just because hes a billionaire doesnt equate to classist power by using real life examples from history.
    Yes, billionaires can certainly use their power for both good and bad things. Has anyone in this thread argued that this isn't true? Being a billionaire superhero can work, as I pointed out that the equally wealthy Tony Stark in the MCU was pulled off excellently. It just means the approach has to be right, which is why I think the more "realistic" interpretations of Batman are often better suited to the 20th Century, as being a billionaire today has more baggage than it did in the past.

    Again, this is simply my preference. There's clearly a giant market for a realistic Batman in the modern day and Matt Reeves looks to be going back to that well once again in his film. I wish him luck.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by iron chimp View Post
    Yes thats a good idea. People seem interested in issues around representation and identity in comics - stories like that are a good way to make relevant books by examining the past through todays lens - plus you get some cool looking different visuals.
    I think this is one of the elements that made Cooke's New Frontier so successful. The John Henry sections in particular were really interesting. I'd love to see that explored more.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    Another that comes to mind is the original Crimson Avenger. Even if you strip the racist characterization of our Wing, and made him something closer to his inspiration, Kato, the idea of the mystery man and his East Asian chauffeur/servant/enforcer isn't going to work as well today.
    Seth Rogan would agree with you.

    That said, I think you could make the Green Hornet and Kato work today as long as you make them equal partners, although I'd much prefer their stories be set in the 1930s.

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