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Thread: Silver Swan

  1. #1
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Default Silver Swan

    Who do you want to be Silver Swan? Also we never saw Vanessa again in rebirth.

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    I’d love to see the original, Helen Alexandros, come back. I never liked the whole idea of Vanessa as the Silver Swan.

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    Mighty Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Helen Alexandros could mostly still work as an ongoing enemy as Valerie and Vanessa have largely limited shelf-life. And Vanessa only really worked because Jimenez was picking up on actual history and then Rucka resolved it fairly early on in his run, which is why re-visiting it in Robinson's run didn't really mean anything.

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    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    With Helena which orgin would you go for? Her being Ares Champion?

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    Spectacular Member Natamaxxx's Avatar
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    I’ll take anyone as long as her main motivation isn’t simply “being jealous of Wonder Woman” (ditto Veronica Cale & Cheetah)

    I liked Vanessa becoming the Silver Swan, but that particular story really only made sense in that particular timeline, so I think it’s time has passed. Besides, the close friend-turned-enemy concept has been recycled over to Cheetah pretty successfully.

    I didn’t particularly care for poor Valerie Beaudry. She was kind of a simpering pawn under the control of a sadistic abusive man who used her for his own ends. Zero motivation. Zero agency.

    So, I guess the time would be right for Helen Alexandros to make her return, but her origin would need a complete overhaul. A little more on the sci-fi side rather than myth. Perhaps she personally creates the Silver Swan cybernetics and has them grafted onto herself for some purpose or another. Whatever - as long as it’s “I’m not pretty like Wonder Woman”...

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    The Last Dragon masterwitcher88's Avatar
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    I think the story of the silver swan is at its best when its about manipulation and losing agency of yourself, she isn't a world conqueror or inherently evil and her "hatred" of WW stems from that manipulation. She's actual the most sympathetic villain in Diana's gallery I think. In a way, its one of the reasons why like Vanessa's origin; a teenage girl who feels abandoned by those she looks up to turns to anyone that would give her some attention, enter Dr. Cyber and Cale. You WANT to feel sorrow towards silver swan because its a real tragic story that does happen.

    Maybe we can take Helen and put her in Vanessa's place, while keeping the myth stuff. Ares is still an ancestor to Helen and she will eventually get a power boost from him, but first she goes through the cybernetic enhancements with Cyber, Cale, and Poison. Keeping the theme of manipulation, Helen needs real help and she thinks people like Ares and Cyber are giving that, but Diana and the audience know they aren't. Helen is nothing to them but a weapon being bought a sold between the highest bidders. The scene in Rucka's first run where Vanessa is saying "I hate you, I hate you" at Diana and Diana lassos her then "I hate you" becomes "Please help me" is the message you are trying to get across with silver swan.
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  7. #7
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    I mean Helena was a Dance. She looked plain. That was her origin. I mean it’s either Ares or maybe going with Cale. She got her hands on Amazonian tech and wanted to use against Diana. She gave Helen beauty of a swan

  8. #8
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    I'd have Helen Alexandros finally make her long overdue comeback

    I have to agree with Natamaxxx: the original arc by Jimenez making Vanessa the Swan was a really cool and interesting way to bring the Kapatelis women back to the book. But it depended on a certain context and continuity to work, and we are long past that. The execution of using her in Rebirth and in Bloodlines left a lot to be desired. And I've never had much use for Valerie. She was neither the original Swan who has a neat tie to the myth side of WW while also being a unique villain, nor did she have the "dramatic return of a former supporting character" twist Nessie benefitted from. The final resolution to her arc was sweet, but I can't say the WW mythos would be hurt by her never coming back.

  9. #9
    Mighty Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterwitcher88 View Post
    I think the story of the silver swan is at its best when its about manipulation and losing agency of yourself, she isn't a world conqueror or inherently evil and her "hatred" of WW stems from that manipulation. She's actual the most sympathetic villain in Diana's gallery I think. In a way, its one of the reasons why like Vanessa's origin; a teenage girl who feels abandoned by those she looks up to turns to anyone that would give her some attention, enter Dr. Cyber and Cale. You WANT to feel sorrow towards silver swan because its a real tragic story that does happen.

    Maybe we can take Helen and put her in Vanessa's place, while keeping the myth stuff. Ares is still an ancestor to Helen and she will eventually get a power boost from him, but first she goes through the cybernetic enhancements with Cyber, Cale, and Poison. Keeping the theme of manipulation, Helen needs real help and she thinks people like Ares and Cyber are giving that, but Diana and the audience know they aren't. Helen is nothing to them but a weapon being bought a sold between the highest bidders. The scene in Rucka's first run where Vanessa is saying "I hate you, I hate you" at Diana and Diana lassos her then "I hate you" becomes "Please help me" is the message you are trying to get across with silver swan.
    I've also had the idea of combining the Helen version of the Swan with elements from Vanessa. She originally still gets powered by Ares but he later strips of her it after her failures and she falls in with Cale who gives her the body-horror cyborg look Vanessa sported.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    I've also had the idea of combining the Helen version of the Swan with elements from Vanessa. She originally still gets powered by Ares but he later strips of her it after her failures and she falls in with Cale who gives her the body-horror cyborg look Vanessa sported.
    Ooo, I like that! And do we want Doctor Psycho to be part of her story as well? He was there in the original story (WW Vol 1 #288-290) and he was also the one who brainwashed Vanessa when she took on the role.

  11. #11
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    In a weird sense what if Helen was an Amazons or at least a swept away baby?

  12. #12
    Fantastic Member wonder39's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    In a weird sense what if Helen was an Amazons or at least a swept away baby?
    Meh. Not a fan of forcing so much direct connection tonthe Amazons. They did that in the Odyssey and I wasn't crazy about it then either.

    No reason why it couldn't be the Bronze Age tale, with her being the pawn of Ares.

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    Bring back Helen.

  14. #14
    Spectacular Member Natamaxxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterwitcher88 View Post
    I think the story of the silver swan is at its best when its about manipulation and losing agency of yourself, she isn't a world conqueror or inherently evil and her "hatred" of WW stems from that manipulation. She's actual the most sympathetic villain in Diana's gallery I think. In a way, its one of the reasons why like Vanessa's origin; a teenage girl who feels abandoned by those she looks up to turns to anyone that would give her some attention, enter Dr. Cyber and Cale. You WANT to feel sorrow towards silver swan because its a real tragic story that does happen.

    Maybe we can take Helen and put her in Vanessa's place, while keeping the myth stuff. Ares is still an ancestor to Helen and she will eventually get a power boost from him, but first she goes through the cybernetic enhancements with Cyber, Cale, and Poison. Keeping the theme of manipulation, Helen needs real help and she thinks people like Ares and Cyber are giving that, but Diana and the audience know they aren't. Helen is nothing to them but a weapon being bought a sold between the highest bidders. The scene in Rucka's first run where Vanessa is saying "I hate you, I hate you" at Diana and Diana lassos her then "I hate you" becomes "Please help me" is the message you are trying to get across with silver swan.
    That’s all great stuff, but in one form or another, it’s pretty much all happened before, no? I know the main reason for all the reboots and rebirths is to clear out convoluted continuity, but I think they’re also a great opportunity to get some fresh takes on characters that haven’t been properly spotlighted in a while - in stories that haven’t been told yet. Why re-hash the past or shuffle the same origins and motivations around different characters?

    I personally don’t think Helen needs a tie to Ares. Why create an avatar to take on Wonder Woman when he routinely does that himself these days? An association with Veronica Cale would make a lot of sense, though, but it needn’t be a pawn/manipulator relationship. There are a host of other relationship dynamics to explore. Perhaps mentor/mentee (ok, with a little manipulation there, lol).

  15. #15
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Okay maybe Helena and Cale are childhood friends? That much like Dr.Cyber , Cale helps Helena?

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