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  1. #106
    Militantly Indifferent Kisinith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitou D. Kid View Post
    It's both a strength and a weakness. Its weakness is that readers will always connect more to another character than they do with X-Men. If you want to connect to a superhero experiencing classism, you would go to Spider-Man before going to the X-Men. If you want to connect to someone experiencing anti-black racism, you would go to Luke Cage or Black Panther before the X-Men (or Kamala Khan for anti-brown racism). If you want to connect to a character experiencing ableism, you would go to Daredevil before the X-Men. It's both versatile and at risk of ending up second-fiddle at the same time.
    This is only true if the only reason you are connecting with a certain character is their allegorical relationship to 1 specific topic. Further, these are comic books not an academic dissertation, generalization is strength not a weakness. Anecdotally, I would argue that people come for the claws and laser beams but stay because they made a connection to a character or theme. The X-Men are built on themes of "persecution" and "otherness", feelings that are generally relatable regardless of the readers own specific circumstances.. You could just as easily argue that your examples are so specific as to be a turn off unless the reader wants to cover that specific theme.
    Last edited by Kisinith; 09-27-2020 at 03:49 PM.

  2. #107
    Extraordinary Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    You’re scraping and you know it.
    Just pointing out that this whole narrative that KraKoa is strictly 100% Mutants only is a lie
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    Other as non-mutant which is what the X-men are not…
    Um what? The X-Men arrrre the others it's just a story about them watching a movie bout getting bullied that focuses on those getting bullied doesn't change the fact the kids getting bullied aren't seen as social outsiders

    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    What the mutants have done to feel secure has consequences… I have never heard before Hickman’s run Kitty Pryde using the phrase “my people” to name the mutants. They were “the mutants”, that’s all. In real life, nobody says this. Maybe in traditional societies… in movies?… Magneto? “my brothers and sisters”?…
    Real people DO talk this way
    just usually not around strangers/outsiders :/
    Quote Originally Posted by Kisinith View Post
    The number of people who don't understand "allegory" is both sad and frightening.


    It seems to me that if Dr. Seuss and Aesop's Fables can provide effective allegories than the X-Men aren't in any danger of losing its relevance.
    Lol ikr

    Quote Originally Posted by Kisinith View Post
    Note what's missing here? No mention of Black, LGBTQ, Jewish, Muslim, Native American or any other specific group. Why? Because the allegories aren't about any one specific group, some stories reference one form of discrimination more closely than others but so what? The "M-Word" and mutie are very much inspired by the "N-Word" and anti-black racism but is that the only thing it can reference? Spoiler alert, there are specific derogatory and hurtful words used to describe other groups as well. A story about the "M-Word" may actually evoke meaning for someone who is, I dunno, gay for example. Or Jewish. Or.... Or

    I suppose I could suggest that if someone really can't stand all the metaphor and allegory in the X-Men perhaps they should try other comics? I mean its not like Spider-Man and Captain America also contain deeply embedded allegorical references to perceived societal ills...
    Yes dude all this lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitou D. Kid View Post
    It's both a strength and a weakness. Its weakness is that readers will always connect more to another character than they do with X-Men. If you want to connect to a superhero experiencing classism, you would go to Spider-Man before going to the X-Men. If you want to connect to someone experiencing anti-black racism, you would go to Luke Cage or Black Panther before the X-Men (or Kamala Khan for anti-brown racism). If you want to connect to a character experiencing ableism, you would go to Daredevil before the X-Men. It's both versatile and at risk of ending up second-fiddle at the same time.
    well that's def not how I see it. How often does Spider-Man experience classism? Or how frequently does anti black sentiment show up in Luke Cage who is a hometown hero in his neighborhood where most of his adventures take place? BP is a king of an African country.... Not a buncha chances for anti black attitude showing up in a country of black people. Even when these kinda stories pop up there usually resolved in one issue or that one-story arc everything is wrapped up nice and tight which is not the way the real world works if you experiencing it was hers is your nation and you pretty much go through it your whole day-to-day life

    Quote Originally Posted by Kisinith View Post
    This is only true if the only reason you are connecting with a certain character is their allegorical relationship to 1 specific topic. Further, these are comic books not an academic dissertation, generalization is strength not a weakness. Anecdotally, I would argue that people come for the claws and laser beams but stay because they made a connection to a character or theme. The X-Men are built on themes of "persecution" and "otherness", feelings that are generally relatable regardless of the readers own specific circumstances..
    Exactly!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kisinith View Post
    You could just as easily argue that your examples are so specific as to be a turn off unless the reader wants to cover that specific theme.
    Damn Dude...killin it lol
    GrindrStone(D)

  3. #108
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I find that Gargoyles and Ninja Turtles are better suited as allegories than the X-men since they aren't walking WMDs.
    No they are perfect example because not every Muslim is going to fly a plane into a building, Not every White person is going to blow building in Oklahoma city. Potential danger of section of people in a larger group isn't reason to treat the whole group as the same thing. If that level of danger of mutants applied to all mutants it would be a bad example. People don't seem to understand being afraid "inherently dangerous mutant powers" and being afraid of "Mutants" are different things. Being afraid of Muslim Terrorist and being afraid of all Muslims are different things. If mutants were a group like Vampires and Zombies where every one had same abilities and the same threat of danger they would be a bad allegory.

    Just for fun Beast, Angel, Changeling, Mimic, Darwin, Nightcrawler, Wolverine, Colossus, Thunderbird, Shadowcat, Forge, Celia Reyes, Marrow, Sage, Stacy X, Lifeguard,etc. I can keep listing them and I guarantee you the list of mutants who powers are inherently dangerous and when you add it to people who have perfectly control over their powers makes the concern about mutants doing something dangerous as valid treating every white person as serial killer or mass shooter. You can't judge a group on a individual ability to be dangerous with all the school shooting and serial killers I have yet to see white people worry about potential danger of white males. That is because people have the ability to separate the individual threat from the masses when they want to do so.

    Mutants are amazingly good allegory for people treatment of Black or Muslim people or even people with AIDS or Asian people when the Covid crisis started. The scope of damage that a singular mutant can do doesn't change the point of not treating a group people like they are one thing. It has been a battle to in threads like these to get people to understand the correct statement is something like a Mutant with "inherently dangerous mutant powers" is something to be afraid. When you say "THEY" it is blanket statement which it seems that ALL of a group is dangerous because of individuals with dangerous powers. Going Mutants are WMDs, Is no different than when people say Muslims are terrorists or Black people are criminals,thugs and animals. The fantasy aspect of individual to blow up like a nuclear bomb doesn't change so you can apply the individual fear to a whole group.
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 09-28-2020 at 12:45 AM.

  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by H-E-D View Post
    "There's not enough humans in my X-Men" is a weird take.
    Having humans in the cast has been a tradition in X-men comics since the 60's. Notable human cast include Valeria Cooper, Trish Tilby, Moira MacTaggert - even Senator Robert Kelly and Gyrich got in on it during Operation: Zero Tolerance. Hickman's run is the exception. What's interesting about human cast is having them react to what the X-men are doing and being a voice for humans to be soundboard with. It creates more drama, adds more characters and examines issues like mutants being a metaphor for marginalised groups deeper, X-men need to do this since they don't have diverse casts like the Avengers where anyone can join. Mutant, Inhuman, Atlantean, if a character proves they're capable they're on the team. The X-men have came along way from Magneto's Genosha having high profile human ambassadors at the United Nations, Krakao's regressed in many ways what a mutant run government looks like with multiculturalism.

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Having humans in the cast has been a tradition in X-men comics since the 60's. Notable human cast include Valeria Cooper, Trish Tilby, Moira MacTaggert - even Senator Robert Kelly and Gyrich got in on it during Operation: Zero Tolerance. Hickman's run is the exception. What's interesting about human cast is having them react to what the X-men are doing and being a voice for humans to be soundboard with. It creates more drama, adds more characters and examines issues like mutants being a metaphor for marginalised groups deeper, X-men need to do this since they don't have diverse casts like the Avengers where anyone can join. Mutant, Inhuman, Atlantean, if a character proves they're capable they're on the team. The X-men have came along way from Magneto's Genosha having high profile human ambassadors at the United Nations, Krakao's regressed in many ways what a mutant run government looks like with multiculturalism.
    And none of that has actually changed the difference being it's not the focus of the story being told at the moment the X-Men still have human allies they wouldn't have been able to get Krakoa off the ground otherwise. The difference being that's not what the focus of the story is about right now it's not about the human allies who helped build mutantdom, it's about the birth of a nation, nationalism, cultural pride, and pride in one-self in being a oppressed minority who's finally managed to kick the boot off their neck.

  6. #111
    Astonishing Member Ptrvc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    No they are perfect example because not every Muslim is going to fly a plane into a building, Not every White person is going to blow building in Oklahoma city. Potential danger of section of people in a larger group isn't reason to treat the whole group as the same thing. If that level of danger of mutants applied to all mutants it would be a bad example. People don't seem to understand being afraid "inherently dangerous mutant powers" and being afraid of "Mutants" are different things. Being afraid of Muslim Terrorist and being afraid of all Muslims are different things. If mutants were a group like Vampires and Zombies where every one had same abilities and the same threat of danger they would be a bad allegory.

    Just for fun Beast, Angel, Changeling, Mimic, Darwin, Nightcrawler, Wolverine, Colossus, Thunderbird, Shadowcat, Forge, Celia Reyes, Marrow, Sage, Stacy X, Lifeguard,etc. I can keep listing them and I guarantee you the list of mutants who powers are inherently dangerous and when you add it to people who have perfectly control over their powers makes the concern about mutants doing something dangerous as valid treating every white person as serial killer or mass shooter. You can't judge a group on a individual ability to be dangerous with all the school shooting and serial killers I have yet to see white people worry about potential danger of white males. That is because people have the ability to separate the individual threat from the masses when they want to do so.

    Mutants are amazingly good allegory for people treatment of Black or Muslim people or even people with AIDS or Asian people when the Covid crisis started. The scope of damage that a singular mutant can do doesn't change the point of not treating a group people like they are one thing. It has been a battle to in threads like these to get people to understand the correct statement is something like a Mutant with "inherently dangerous mutant powers" is something to be afraid. When you say "THEY" it is blanket statement which it seems that ALL of a group is dangerous because of individuals with dangerous powers. Going Mutants are WMDs, Is no different than when people say Muslims are terrorists or Black people are criminals,thugs and animals. The fantasy aspect of individual to blow up like a nuclear bomb doesn't change so you can apply the individual fear to a whole group.
    That's exactly why it doesn't work though. Mutants are not dangerous because who they are bit because their powers. You're using terrorism as an example, but a perfectly morale mutant might blow up a building, out of intention bit because they can't control their powers.

  7. #112
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ptrvc View Post
    That's exactly why it doesn't work though. Mutants are not dangerous because who they are bit because their powers. You're using terrorism as an example, but a perfectly morale mutant might blow up a building, out of intention bit because they can't control their powers.
    And blunders happen quite regularly in comics…

    Like with Onslaught. Xavier was distraught by the outcome but he couldn’t do anything but assessing the damages. In the past, at least, I trusted Xavier to do the right thing and not to abuse his powers and though…

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by loke13 View Post
    And none of that has actually changed the difference being it's not the focus of the story being told at the moment the X-Men still have human allies they wouldn't have been able to get Krakoa off the ground otherwise. The difference being that's not what the focus of the story is about right now it's not about the human allies who helped build mutantdom, it's about the birth of a nation, nationalism, cultural pride, and pride in one-self in being a oppressed minority who's finally managed to kick the boot off their neck.
    Except humans were never the focus before this, they were in the supporting cast. There are no X-men at the moment, there is the Krkaoan government - teams like "Excalibur," "X-Force" and 'X-Factor"are extensions of that government. But they don't have human allies in the cast like they used to, even Jean gets creepy distancing herself from humanity in X-Force. There's a huge difference in how humanity is portrayed in Hickman's run. That's not the whole story about the theme of the X-books, - the run's built on Moira X. Her agenda and how far she's fallen through her life until she changed the course of the X-line and that its all built on lies. Krkaoa was made from the outset to be a ticking time bomb where the "X-men" have been making questionable decisions from House/Powers of X onward and blurred the lines between being super-hero and super-villains. It's not just about being oppressed its about how the oppressed become the oppressive when they allow themselves to be corrupted by outside forces. For example, working with cartels. If the X-titles ever did get more human allies in the supporting cast we'd be getting more characters like cartels members then another Moira MacTaggert. Hickman knows what he's doing, and it's not for readers to stop asking questions. Thats what makes his run so engaging, it wants the audience to participate in examining their heroes every step not just agree with whatever the protagonist do because they're the protagonists.

  9. #114
    Extraordinary Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Except humans were never the focus before this, they were in the supporting cast. There are no X-men at the moment, there is the Krkaoan government - teams like "Excalibur," "X-Force" and 'X-Factor"are extensions of that government. But they don't have human allies in the cast like they used to.
    Few Questions....Where ar you finding a these humans in your X-Books?? Cause outta all three of those teams I can count only one person 'Valerie Cooper" who served in any kinda support staff capacity

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    even Jean gets creepy distancing herself from humanity in X-Force.
    You mean away from the people who wanted to eat her? Stuck up B!tch
    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    There's a huge difference in how humanity is portrayed in Hickman's run. That's not the whole story about the theme of the X-books, - the run's built on Moira X. Her agenda and how far she's fallen through her life until she changed the course of the X-line and that its all built on lies. Krkaoa was made from the outset to be a ticking time bomb where the "X-men" have been making questionable decisions from House/Powers of X onward and blurred the lines between being super-hero and super-villains. It's not just about being oppressed .
    Uhhhh why not? Because they're not dying or about to die, or dead
    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    its about how the oppressed become the oppressive when they allow themselves to be corrupted by outside forces. For example, working with cartels..
    Remind me who are the Mutants and KraKoa oppressing?? Oh what outside forces are forcing them to do their evil bidding
    If the X-titles ever did get more human allies in the supporting cast we'd be getting more characters like cartels members then another Moira MacTaggert.[/QUOTE]Well isn't that what you claim sooo many people want?
    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Hickman knows what he's doing, and it's not for readers to stop asking questions. Thats what makes his run so engaging, it wants the audience to participate in examining their heroes every step not just agree with whatever the protagonist do because they're the protagonists.
    is spreading misinformation, repeating headcanon as fact, considered Examining? Hmm I Don't know....
    GrindrStone(D)

  10. #115
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    If the X-titles ever did get more human allies in the supporting cast we'd be getting more characters like cartels members then another Moira MacTaggert Well isn't that what you claim sooo many people want?
    Shhh Don't let them know that Shogo, Broo, Kyle, Corsair, Brian Braddock, Warlock,Beak's Parents, Human lab allies, etc have shown up in the books.

    Also with the exception of Vampires I think every single earthbound enemy until right now up till x of swords has been Humans. Why exactly would mutants be in rush to bring humans on the island when it has been Humans who are attacking mutants, the island itself has been at invaded or attack 3 times 2 twice by mask dudes and once by hordeculture. Why don't people seem to understand Brazil, North Korea stand in and Russia or out right hating mutants, You have various groups like Orchis, the Gang from fake Latin country and Plant Sentinels people attacking mutants. Why is weird for mutants to be lets keep to ourselves while you guys figure out your issues.
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 09-28-2020 at 08:51 PM.

  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    Few Questions....Where ar you finding a these humans in your X-Books?? Cause outta all three of those teams I can count only one person 'Valerie Cooper" who served in any kinda support staff capacity
    You’re going to have to read more X-books if all that comes to mind is Valerie Cooper.

    You mean away from the people who wanted to eat her? Stuck up B!tch
    No.

    Uhhhh why not? Because they're not dying or about to die, or dead
    Because Moira X is an outside context problem, and Krkaao is built on a house of cards. Hickman’s been laying time bombs for Krkaao to implode since House of X (Mystique). This is why it’s not simply about racism metaphors, but state building. If Moira X dies she risks taking this time line with her, as well. Among the secret triumvirate (Xavier, Moira X and Magneto) Krakoa’s built on Moira is the main fulcrum, without her Krakao remains a place where mutants get eaten not a living nation.

    Remind me who are the Mutants and KraKoa oppressing?? Oh what outside forces are forcing them to do their evil bidding
    The nation Beast turned into plant monsters. Krakao let Apocalypse put a puppet king in Avalon, who is Jaime Braddock. Reality warping King Joffrey. Themselves, the citiizens don’t have the right to a lawyer, the “trials” are more like sentencing hearings than kangaroo courts and whoever gets punished is thrown into Krkaao itself to be devoured for eternity, and they don’t have the right to vote for their leaders locally or federally. It’s a military junta. The victims of the cartels, thanks to Krakao they get more powerful in Marvel.

    The “outside forces” being the Dominions, something Hickman’s been building toward with House of X and New Mutants. Not only do we lack any clear idea of who they are (but not their implied powers which is universal in scale and the ability to be immune to Moira X’s powers), Hickman left loads of time between the transition and important gaps in Krakao’s government which is unknown to readers, and given how the Brood and Phalanx are their creations there’s nothing stopping them from subverting Moira X at some point and we’d never know it. Hickman’s saving Moira X’s fate to be revealed for act 3, we’re nearly at the end of act 1.

    Well isn't that what you claim sooo many people want?
    What’s your opinion on having cartel members being supporting cast in X-men titles?

    is spreading misinformation, repeating headcanon as fact, considered Examining? Hmm I Don't know....
    I'm not lying about anything. This is also supported by the fact I’ve read Hickman’s works before and know what stories he writes. With Trump and the rise of fascism in the world Hickman’s run is very important for politics right now Krakoa’s setting provides an interesting exploration of fascism from the inside. Normally the X-men are fighting from the outside, but the question with these “X-men” are the same ones we know is up for debate. Hickman’s really laid out a clever plan so anything’s up for grabs. Clones continuously being “resurrected” provides so much opportunities for writers to explore and reveal on that front, especially when they’re made by Mr. Sinister.
    Last edited by Steel Inquisitor; 09-30-2020 at 06:50 AM.

  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Shhh Don't let them know that Shogo, Broo, Kyle, Corsair, Brian Braddock, Warlock,Beak's Parents, Human lab allies, etc have shown up in the books.
    Shogo is a baby who spends more time in Otherworld as a dragon than an actual human being, Broo is a mutant Brood and what’s interesting is the distinct lack of presence on Krakao of mutant populations from other worlds like the Skrulls and Shi’Ar (both have ties to the X-men), Corsair’s a space pirate he’s not living in Krakoa, Warlock counts.

    Shown up in the books, sure, I’m talking about having a fairly large presence in the supporting cast. That’s a slim list in a nation of millions of people and none with communities in Krakaoa to speak of.

    The human lab allies, you mean the people from Xavier’s mega corporations who aren’t in krkaoa, I assume. Helpful, but hardly a glowing example of harmonious friendship with humanity, be our labs monkeys but don’t you dare glance in the direction of our island. Sounds like a place they’d put Moira if she had stayed human.

    Braddock’s not a member of Excalibur, though. Despite when Excalibur formed it was the most diverse team in the X-men books.

    Also with the exception of Vampires I think every single earthbound enemy until right now up till x of swords has been Humans. Why exactly would mutants be in rush to bring humans on the island when it has been Humans who are attacking mutants, the island itself has been at invaded or attack 3 times 2 twice by mask dudes and once by hordeculture. Why don't people seem to understand Brazil, North Korea stand in and Russia or out right hating mutants, You have various groups like Orchis, the Gang from fake Latin country and Plant Sentinels people attacking mutants. Why is weird for mutants to be lets keep to ourselves while you guys figure out your issues.
    Sure humans have been constant enemies of Krkaao, they were like that before as well. They didn’t mean every human the X-men fought wanted to kill them. Because not every human does that, under those conditions no mutant should be allowed in any human country again because Apocalypse tried to destroy the entire human race once. (Because that’d be wrong.) The X-men shouldn’t be in the business of judging people guilty simply because they have the wrong gene – the X-men have fought their own enemies, many of which are on the Quiet Counil about that. Even Magneto in the past let humans have a big presence in his government and culture in Genosha. Not anymore.

    I understand them fine, however, using them as strawman to make an ethnostate is the wrong conclusion. It’s not like the people responsible for the planet sentinels were supported by evrryone in that county but that entire country’s population is suffering for it because of Hank McCoy’s decision to turn them into plants.

    Because mutants are humans, and they’re not “keeping to themselves.” Immigration goes one way and it’s not to Krkaoa. They’d just be every other country in the world who have immigration, and they’re not doing this because they’re not able to they’re doing it by choice by buying into mutant supremacy. “You guys?” We’re not in Marvel universe and we’re both humans in the resal world. Neither of us would be allowed to go to Krakoa just because we’re not mutants.

  13. #118
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Shhh Don't let them know that Shogo, Broo, Kyle, Corsair, Brian Braddock, Warlock,Beak's Parents, Human lab allies, etc have shown up in the books.

    Also with the exception of Vampires I think every single earthbound enemy until right now up till x of swords has been Humans. Why exactly would mutants be in rush to bring humans on the island when it has been Humans who are attacking mutants, the island itself has been at invaded or attack 3 times 2 twice by mask dudes and once by hordeculture. Why don't people seem to understand Brazil, North Korea stand in and Russia or out right hating mutants, You have various groups like Orchis, the Gang from fake Latin country and Plant Sentinels people attacking mutants. Why is weird for mutants to be lets keep to ourselves while you guys figure out your issues.
    The weirdness comes from the double standard of it. Mutants can go into any country they want to, but no one can go into Krakoa. And when mutants do enter other countries, they are immune to that countries laws... ie if a mutant breaks a law, that other country can't hold them accountable. If mutants simply decided to only stay on Krakoa and not enter other countries that would be fine... but for them to decide they can freely go anywhere they choose and ignore proper due process while doing it, is problematic.

  14. #119
    Extraordinary Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Shhh Don't let them know that Shogo, Broo, Kyle, Corsair, Brian Braddock, Warlock,Beak's Parents, Human lab allies, etc have shown up in the books.
    lol Right? but apparently they want a Double sized, bi monthly book about the Fan Favorite 'Human Support Cast' thats been featured in EVERY Xbooks before this....

    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Why exactly would mutants be in rush to bring humans on the island when it has been Humans who are attacking mutants, the island itself has been at invaded or attack 3 times 2 twice by mask dudes and once by hordeculture. Why is weird for mutants to be lets keep to ourselves while you guys figure out your issues.
    I guess it makes some people uncomfortable the idea of minorities sneaking off and mapping out their own destiny without the protective and civilizing eye of the majority?
    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    You’re going to have to read more X-books if all that comes to mind is Valerie Cooper.
    Bruh Please tell me outta the Books you named(Excalibur, X-Force, X-Factor) which Human Support staff am I missing???

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Because Moira X is an outside context problem, and Krkaao is built on a house of cards. Hickman’s been laying time bombs for Krkaao to implode since House of X (Mystique). This is why it’s not simply about racism metaphors, but state building. If Moira X dies she risks taking this time line with her, as well. Among the secret triumvirate (Xavier, Moira X and Magneto) Krakoa’s built on Moira is the main fulcrum, without her Krakao remains a place where mutants get eaten not a living nation.
    Well theres no way of knowing what will happend when Moira is to die. It has never really been explained in detail. Sooooo stop with your head canon. +KraKoa hasnt been trying to eat/kill mutants for a while. Every since Wolverine and the Xmen....
    sooo have A Seat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    What’s your opinion on having cartel members being supporting cast in X-men titles?
    If they were mutants I'd still be annoyed they werent using my favorites....but I wouldnt have that much of an opinon about them. I beginning to think the Cartels of latin America are the only Cartels most people are familiar with...

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Braddock’s not a member of Excalibur, though. Despite when Excalibur formed it was the most diverse team in the X-men books.
    Dude why are you trying to make Excalibur diverse lol. The OG Lineup was Meggan, Cap Britain, Rachel, Shadowcat, and Nightcrawler. So please tell me how that team is more diverse than the New Mutants atm made up Dani, Rahne, Warlock, Doug, Sam, and Bobby.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    I'm not lying about anything. This is also supported by the fact I’ve read Hickman’s works before and know what stories he writes. With Trump and the rise of fascism in the world Hickman’s run is very important for politics right now Krakoa’s setting provides an interesting exploration of fascism from the inside. Normally the X-men are fighting from the outside, but the question with these “X-men” are the same ones we know is up for debate. Hickman’s really laid out a clever plan so anything’s up for grabs. Clones continuously being “resurrected” provides so much opportunities for writers to explore and reveal on that front, especially when they’re made by Mr. Sinister.
    Turning a group of heroes who are important metaphors for different kinds of people into fascists would be BEEEEYOND poor taste. But i guess its easy to see yourself in this franchise. +What does Sinister have to do with the ressurction protocols? Oh yeah not much at all

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Shogo is a baby who spends more time in Otherworld as a dragon than an actual human being, Broo is a mutant Brood and what’s interesting is the distinct lack of presence on Krakao of mutant populations from other worlds like the Skrulls and Shi’Ar (both have ties to the X-men), Corsair’s a space pirate he’s not living in Krakoa, Warlock counts.
    lol Still Shogo is a human and lives on KraKoa so does Kyle. And Damn you want humans, Skrull mutants...shiar mutants on KraKoa. You want every type of person BUT a 616 Mutant?
    Thats some weird Haterade

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Shown up in the books, sure, I’m talking about having a fairly large presence in the supporting cast. That’s a slim list in a nation of millions of people and none with communities in Krakaoa to speak of.
    Even Magneto in the past let humans have a big presence in his government and culture in Genosha. Not anymore.
    That was because those humans WERE Genoshans ... there were no people on KraKoa, why DA ACTUAL FVckk would KraKoa invite/permit humans anywhere near especially intended to govern over their soil
    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    “You guys?” We’re not in Marvel universe and we’re both humans in the resal world. Neither of us would be allowed to go to Krakoa just because we’re not mutants.
    Speak for Yourself Flatscan
    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    The weirdness comes from the double standard of it. Mutants can go into any country they want to, but no one can go into Krakoa. And when mutants do enter other countries, they are immune to that countries laws... ie if a mutant breaks a law, that other country can't hold them accountable.
    If mutants simply decided to only stay on Krakoa and not enter other countries that would be fine...
    but for them to decide they can freely go anywhere they choose and ignore proper due process while doing it, is problematic
    Woooow So Segreation....Oh I must be in the wrong board lol
    GrindrStone(D)

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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    lol Right? but apparently they want a Double sized, bi monthly book about the Fan Favorite 'Human Support Cast' thats been featured in EVERY Xbooks before this....
    Hyperbole.

    I guess it makes some people uncomfortable the idea of minorities sneaking off and mapping out their own destiny without the protective and civilizing eye of the majority?
    No. They're uncomfortable with Krakoa being a dictatorship, getting into wars, no letting their citizens have voting rights or the right to a lawyer, letting Sinister have his own Suicide Squad, and letting Apocalypse do whatever he wants with no supervision - which caused both wars. Mutants are the majority on Krakoa, they're not at the mansion in America.

    Bruh Please tell me outta the Books you named(Excalibur, X-Force, X-Factor) which Human Support staff am I missing???
    For Excalibur Dai Thomas, Alysande Stuart, her brother Alistair, Courtney Ross, Dane Whitman. Shatterstar from X-Force, not human but non-mutant. GW Bridge was a rec=occuring character in books like X-Force and Cable. Doc Samson was a therapist for X-Factor.

    Well theres no way of knowing what will happend when Moira is to die. It has never really been explained in detail. Sooooo stop with your head canon. +KraKoa hasnt been trying to eat/kill mutants for a while. Every since Wolverine and the Xmen....
    sooo have A Seat.
    All we need is to know Hickman's other works, and read what he does in his comics. House/Powers of X isn't subtle about planting seeds into his run. We know currently that Moira X's "death" resets the timeline, that's what House/Powers of X is built on. I don't need "head canon" all I need to know is how Hickman plans his comics and analyse the clues he leaves for foreshadowing which is abundant.


    If they were mutants I'd still be annoyed they werent using my favorites....but I wouldnt have that much of an opinon about them. I beginning to think the Cartels of latin America are the only Cartels most people are familiar with...
    This is a non-answer. The cartels shown Krkaow working with are exactly like their real life counterparts, that word has a specific meaning. There are good cartels?

    Dude why are you trying to make Excalibur diverse lol. The OG Lineup was Meggan, Cap Britain, Rachel, Shadowcat, and Nightcrawler. So please tell me how that team is more diverse than the New Mutants atm made up Dani, Rahne, Warlock, Doug, Sam, and Bobby.
    Read more Excalibur, the team has more non-mutant members than Brian (who by himself is still more representation in X-men teams being a non-mutant - that's the problem with the X-men you can be anything as long as you're a mutant). These include: Juggernaut, Karima Shapandar, Feron, and Cerise. Actual members, not supporting cast.

    Turning a group of heroes who are important metaphors for different kinds of people into fascists would be BEEEEYOND poor taste. But i guess its easy to see yourself in this franchise. +What does Sinister have to do with the ressurction protocols? Oh yeah not much at all
    Maybe, but people bought into it without any hesitation anyway. And it made the X-men a hit! Many of them being on the Quiet Council right now. Sinister provides the DNA, he's vital in the resurrection process - that's why he's allowed to be on the Council.

    lol Still Shogo is a human and lives on KraKoa so does Kyle. And Damn you want humans, Skrull mutants...shiar mutants on KraKoa. You want every type of person BUT a 616 Mutant?
    Thats some weird Haterade
    Two whole people. Krkaoa is meant to be for all mutants, why wouldn't they want mutants from other worlds? They have Broo. Please, stop with the straw men.

    That was because those humans WERE Genoshans ... there were no people on KraKoa, why DA ACTUAL FVckk would KraKoa invite/permit humans anywhere near especially intended to govern over their soil
    Except krakoa has adopted those mutant citizens as their own when they resurrect them and we haven't seen any hint that they're going to do this for the humans killed in Nova's attack. Because it's a nation.

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