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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    WHy would grown up care what people label him?
    What is that suppose to me? Just because he is an adult doesn’t mean he can’t care about labels. Plenty of people care about labels regardless the age. Alex just wants to be treated like a regular person instead of some freak. Like people treat Thor more like a regular person and he’s a mythical god of thunder

  2. #17
    Extraordinary Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dboi2001 View Post
    What is that suppose to me? Just because he is an adult doesn’t mean he can’t care about labels. Plenty of people care about labels regardless the age. Alex just wants to be treated like a regular person instead of some freak. Like people treat Thor more like a regular person and he’s a mythical god of thunder
    Yeah so does everyone else. Difference is Thor never said "Don't call me Norse, or God etc.
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  3. #18
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dboi2001 View Post
    Some people feel like Alex Summer’s speech in Uncanny X-Men was backwards and even All New X Men took a shot at it with Kitty Pryde telling the young X Men she wants people to know she is a mutant and that it isn’t derogatory. While I do think the wording of Alex’s speech is a little off I agree with him. He should be forced to be seen only as a mutant. He’s a human being. All mutants are humans at the end of the day and calling them mutants separates them. Even then I don’t think his beliefs are any worse than what Morgan Freeman said a while ago about race. I mean I don’t think it is wrong for a mutant to identify as a mutant but it also defeats Xavier’s dream of mutants integrating with humans. Like even later on in All New X Men I think Scarlet Witch said that they don’t have mutant problems or human problems. Just problems period.
    I think labels will always be in the eye of the beholder even if you refuse them. So you have to take them in account no matter what because they have an impact on your life.

    I’m more interested, actually, by Kitty Pryde’s counterpart story: Alex Summer was giving a discourse as a mature adult, Kitty Pryde was a very young girl back then and she had a crush. Her answer was emotional and she didn’t give the opportunity to the young boy to change his mind about what a Jew meant. She shouted and run away.

    Words are boxes, you can put in them different ideas and they certainly simplify our vision of the world. Their content change according to our experience.

    As a reader, I never consider that being a mutant was something very important, I was more interested by stories. So mutant metaphor…

  4. #19
    Extraordinary Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Prob not

    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    You have to look a little bit outside the story though. It's true that in-universe, it doesn't really make sense to talk of mutants as a "people" because they have nothing in common except a gene that gives them superpowers (though in real life, of course, there are a lot of groups that are defined on a flimsier basis than that).

    But millions of readers identify with the X-Men because they're a metaphor for the idea that

    a) you can be the target of prejudice for reasons that make absolutely no sense (like getting picked on for having super powers even as people with non-mutant powers are treated fine), and
    b) the thing that makes you the target of prejudice isn't a weakness, something to be ashamed of, but something that makes you special.

    So when Havok made the speech about mutants not being a separate people, he's right, but the writer and editor should have known that people would react that way, because he's not just saying that about mutants, he's saying that about the real people who identify with mutants. That was a point that Bendis made by having Kitty reply to Alex's speech: being Jewish doesn't actually make you different from any other person in any way, but that doesn't mean people wouldn't get mad at a Jewish celebrity saying not to call him Jewish. And when people read X-Men comics they're reading mutants as allegories for whatever makes them different in real life.
    SOoooo Much this response tho. ONe of the best retorts I've read on the matter lol
    GrindrStone(D)

  5. #20
    ...of the Black Priests Midnight_v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dboi2001 View Post
    Some people feel like Alex Summer’s speech in Uncanny X-Men was backwards and even All New X Men took a shot at it with Kitty Pryde telling the young X Men she wants people to know she is a mutant and that it isn’t derogatory. While I do think the wording of Alex’s speech is a little off I agree with him. He should be forced to be seen only as a mutant. He’s a human being. All mutants are humans at the end of the day and calling them mutants separates them. Even then I don’t think his beliefs are any worse than what Morgan Freeman said a while ago about race. I mean I don’t think it is wrong for a mutant to identify as a mutant but it also defeats Xavier’s dream of mutants integrating with humans. Like even later on in All New X Men I think Scarlet Witch said that they don’t have mutant problems or human problems. Just problems period.
    No you're not the only one, and not you're not wrong

    Alex was right. Ostensibly he was in line with Xavier's dream and Mlk's I have a dream speech in which the sentiment is "judge me by the content of my character" …
    but... That falls out of line with modern progressivism so we got the infamous fall out on twitter.

    Just look at how the dream is viewed in the X-books now?

    Don't feel bad or be concerned about, just kind of pick where you stand and dig in, because we're in for a rough one on both sides of that.
    If there are people who want to be accepted by society and large and be a part of it vs people who feel like society irredeemable as it stands. Art imitating life.
    My priority is enjoying and supporting stories of timeless heroism and conflict.
    Everything else is irrelevant.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantor View Post
    Can we just be real for second and put aside the fantasy? A person with dwarfism living in India does not have the same issues as a person living with dwarfism in England. They have nothing in common but being short. And yeah people with dwarfism do talk about the struggle of being short together online and in social media but they don’t move into an island nation and become the land of dwarfs. I chose this because I hate the racial analogy of mutants. They are not a race they are genetic predisposition. And the fact that we can’t even talk about disability or ableism in comics is sad because we stuck with a race analogy so dated Deadpool 2 made fun of it. The X-men are a broken franchise because even now with their biggest changes in years it’s still rehashing the same story beats from 20 years ago
    Yeah you misunderstand the point and XoS is the best event by marvel in years and its only 3 issues in, the x-franchise is everything but broken my dude.

    and Some people don't want to remove what makes them them just to make the majority comfortable, alex was a mutant who looks like a skinny cap so him droping it isn't much to him but other mutants cant drop it becuase of their apearence or simply don't want to, but like kitty who is a jewish woman and a mutant would wear it with pride since SHE IS all those things, and if you have a problem with it, she wants to know.
    But i guess people need to endure bigotry to teach the poor misunderstood bigots to be better, right zelena?
    Last edited by Ferro; 09-24-2020 at 02:12 AM.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight_v View Post
    No you're not the only one, and not you're not wrong

    Alex was right. Ostensibly he was in line with Xavier's dream and Mlk's I have a dream speech in which the sentiment is "judge me by the content of my character" …
    but... That falls out of line with modern progressivism so we got the infamous fall out on twitter.

    Just look at how the dream is viewed in the X-books now?

    Don't feel bad or be concerned about, just kind of pick where you stand and dig in, because we're in for a rough one on both sides of that.
    If there are people who want to be accepted by society and large and be a part of it vs people who feel like society irredeemable as it stands. Art imitating life.
    Martin luther king had many many many other statements that wouldn't agree with havok or this team's statement, only because people focus on " i have a dream" doesnt erase everything else that he said and what he stood for, like serious reformation and deep cut changes to the systems that are instrumental in the opression of black people in the united states, and many other speeches that aren't so Idealisitc or easy to put into shirts or facebook posts .


    Xavier's "dream" is a neo-liberal nonsense that hinges on xavier's picked soldiers being model minorities and never achieving anything that helps other mutants that are far less priveledged or protected.
    Last edited by Ferro; 09-24-2020 at 02:14 AM.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantor View Post
    The X-men are a broken franchise because even now with their biggest changes in years it’s still rehashing the same story beats from 20 years ago
    As long as this 'broken franchise' continues to pull in more fan enthusiasm and fan dollars than all the not-broken-franchises, I don't see where being, in your view, 'broken' is a bad thing for Marvel/Disney/Fox/whoever-is-milking-the-mutant-as-minority-metaphor-money-teat-this-week.

    And as long as humans who are not members of disenfranchised minorities like to get morally outraged on behalf of fictional tales of those who are, in lieu of actually doing anything about inequality in the real world, it'll keep selling.

  9. #24
    Extraordinary Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post

    And as long as humans who are not members of disenfranchised minorities like to get morally outraged on behalf of fictional tales of those who are, in lieu of actually doing anything about inequality in the real world, it'll keep selling.
    Soooo Forever...
    GrindrStone(D)

  10. #25
    Astonishing Member Blind Wedjat's Avatar
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    X-Men characters: largely made up of characters that aren't BIPOC or LGBTQ+

    X-Men writers: largely made up of writers that aren't BIPOC or LGBTQ+

    Marvel fans when the X-books say something that isn't particularly intelligent about oppression:



    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantor View Post
    Can we just be real for second and put aside the fantasy? A person with dwarfism living in India does not have the same issues as a person living with dwarfism in England. They have nothing in common but being short. And yeah people with dwarfism do talk about the struggle of being short together online and in social media but they don’t move into an island nation and become the land of dwarfs. I chose this because I hate the racial analogy of mutants. They are not a race they are genetic predisposition. And the fact that we can’t even talk about disability or ableism in comics is sad because we stuck with a race analogy so dated Deadpool 2 made fun of it. The X-men are a broken franchise because even now with their biggest changes in years it’s still rehashing the same story beats from 20 years ago
    Someone had to say it.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    Yeah you misunderstand the point and XoS is the best event by marvel in years and its only 3 issues in, the x-franchise is everything but broken my dude.

    and Some people don't want to remove what makes them them just to make the majority comfortable, alex was a mutant who looks like a skinny cap so him droping it isn't much to him but other mutants cant drop it becuase of their apearence or simply don't want to, but like kitty who is a jewish woman and a mutant would wear it with pride since SHE IS all those things, and if you have a problem with it, she wants to know.
    But i guess people need to endure bigotry to teach the poor misunderstood bigots to be better, right zelena?
    My rabbi read kitty pride when he was a young man and found her to only be slightly less anti-Semitic than magneto. Don’t claim to know about a race your not a part of how they feel about representation

  12. #27
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    [QUOTE=Blind Wedjat;5158395]X-Men characters: largely made up of characters that aren't BIPOC or LGBTQ+

    X-Men writers: largely made up of writers that aren't BIPOC or LGBTQ+

    Marvel fans when the X-books say something that isn't particularly intelligent about oppression:





    Someone had to say it.[/

    I don’t actually understand what you are trying to say?
    Last edited by Gigantor; 09-24-2020 at 04:38 AM.

  13. #28
    Astonishing Member Blind Wedjat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantor View Post
    Did you just call me a racist?
    No? I'm agreeing with you.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post
    No? I'm agreeing with you.
    Your post was vague lol

  15. #30
    Extraordinary Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantor View Post
    My rabbi read kitty pride when he was a young man and found her to only be slightly less anti-Semitic than magneto. Don’t claim to know about a race your not a part of how they feel about representation
    In what way?
    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post
    No? I'm agreeing with you.
    Lawd...
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