Am i the only person who agrees with Havok’s “M Word” sentiment?

[BroHomo]

the mutant metaphor works because readers connect to it that way as a general allegory for oppressed minority groups, as long as the audience feels it, and writers don't do dumb things like "the m-word," it works despite different in-universe logistics, it not being a 1-1 thing is a strength that lets it be more broadly relatable, not a weakness

THANK YOU! I was like do these people NOT know what either an allegory or a metaphor is??
lol

[Steel Inquisitor]

the mutant metaphor works because readers connect to it that way as a general allegory for oppressed minority groups, as long as the audience feels it, and writers don't do dumb things like "the m-word," it works despite different in-universe logistics, it not being a 1-1 thing is a strength that lets it be more broadly relatable, not a weakness

The mutant metaphor fails when it is viewed in a black and white spectrum, and the nuances involved with Krakoa (being a nation state) are overlooked. In conversations about Krakao, the government, are not solely about oppressed groups any longer it's about geopolitics and nation building. Hickman bought in a whole new status quo to the metaphor and many readers assume one is identical to the other. Bering a mutant right now is not solely about being oppressed it's about being a citizen of Krakoa, and mutants not joining Krakoa unheard of.

That can be a strength, it's a weakness when it isn't acknowledged in a conversation. For example, I've had conversations where not supporting Krakoa is viewed as the same as not supporting Black Lives Matter, simply because mutants are a metaphor for minorities, which completely ignores the not 1 = 1 nature of the metaphor.

[JTHM]

the mutant metaphor works because readers connect to it that way as a general allegory for oppressed minority groups, as long as the audience feels it, and writers don't do dumb things like "the m-word," it works despite different in-universe logistics, it not being a 1-1 thing is a strength that lets it be more broadly relatable, not a weakness

That's why I said that they work within their own brand of fantastic racism where they don't represent anything but the idea of a general minority/underdog. My problem is when they are an allegory of actual racism, which is what stuff like the "M-Word" tried to do. Basically equating mutants to black people. Or LGBT people, or any number of minorities.

[Zelena]

Bering a mutant right now is not solely about being oppressed it's about being a citizen of Krakoa, and mutants not joining Krakoa unheard of.

Oppressed in the rest of the world but a member of an ethnically pure society on Krakoa.
Who is not mutant on Krakoa? Even the island is mutant.
It doesn’t promote tolerance and acceptance of the other.

More, in the eyes of the Krakoan, a mutant from everywhere in the world is first a mutant, they deny him his other allegiances like with the mutants in Latveria, if I’m not mistaken.
It’s a totalitarian view.

[JTHM]

Oppressed in the rest of the world but a member of an etnically pure society on Krakoa.
Who is not mutant on Krakoa? Even the island is mutant.
It doesn’t promote tolerance and acceptance of the other.

More, in the eyes of the Krakoan, a mutant from everywhere in the world is first a mutant, they deny him his other allegiances like with the mutants in Latveria, if I’m not mistaken.
It’s a totalitarian view.

I seem to remember the Latverian mutants were a set up by Doom. Not that I think anyone would prefer Latveria over Krakoa, let's be real.

[Steel Inquisitor]

I seem to remember the Latverian mutants were a set up by Doom. Not that I think anyone would prefer Latveria over Krakoa, let's be real.

They're not going to touch Doom. Krakoa isn't going to risk a war with him over the events in FF/X-men, they prefer softer opponents like Russia or when their interests align with Apocalypse, who gets into wars in Otherworld every few months at this rate. Despite the fact they know Doom himself was implicated with M-Day.

Out of universe, Doom belongs under the Fantastic Four umbrella and Hickman might want to use him down the line. But for now Doom and Latveria will be ignored by Krakoa so those mutants are on their own.

[BroHomo]

Oppressed in the rest of the world but a member of an etnically pure society on Krakoa.

You mean free from racism and discrimination. lol

Who is not mutant on Krakoa? Even the island is mutant.

Kyle Northstar's husband Shogo

It doesn’t promote tolerance and acceptance of the other.

lol the X-Men are the other...Damn they can't chill and work on their community without rousing suspicion just like minorities

More, in the eyes of the Krakoan, a mutant from everywhere in the world is first a mutant, they deny him his other allegiances like with the mutants in Latveria, if I’m not mistaken.
It’s a totalitarian view.

Its a realistic view the fact you can't grasp that is telling

They're not going to touch Doom. Krakoa isn't going to risk a war with him over the events in FF/X-men, they prefer softer opponents like Russia or when their interests align with Apocalypse, who gets into wars in Otherworld every few months at this rate. Despite the fact they know Doom himself was implicated with M-Day.

Hmmm no one knows that for sure ...they just know crazy AF Wanda killed scores of them and is throwing the blame somewhere else

Out of universe, Doom belongs under the Fantastic Four umbrella and Hickman might want to use him down the line. But for now Doom and Latveria will be ignored by Krakoa so those mutants are on their own.

Better call the Avengers or the FF lol

[Zelena]

Kyle Northstar's husband Shogo

You’re scraping and you know it.

lol the X-Men are the other...Damn they can't chill and work on their community without rousing suspicion just like minorities

Other as non-mutant which is what the X-men are not…

Its a realistic view the fact you can't grasp that is telling

What the mutants have done to feel secure has consequences… I have never heard before Hickman’s run Kitty Pryde using the phrase “my people” to name the mutants. They were “the mutants”, that’s all. In real life, nobody says this. Maybe in traditional societies… in movies?… Magneto? “my brothers and sisters”?…

[Steel Inquisitor]

You mean free from racism and discrimination. lol

The X-men in the past would be against both, not these days. Now their ideology and nationalism rests in being a mutant.

Kyle Northstar's husband Shogo

In nation of millions of people, where mutants are not only the majority they are the majority by staggering degrees where non-mutnast are in the single or double digits. And who don't get anywhere near screen time they would like they used to in Magneto's Genosha.

lol the X-Men are the other...Damn they can't chill and work on their community without rousing suspicion just like minorities

Not in Krakoa, Hickman's flipped that. Sure they can, but when they do questionable things like having kangaroo courts without lawyers, have an unelected council who have no mechanisms for removal and are at the mercy of Krakao - a living island who hates non mutants so much Apocalypse looks like a progressive for human rights.

Its a realistic view the fact you can't grasp that is telling

The X-men are supposed to be a force against fascism.

Hmmm no one knows that for sure ...they just know crazy AF Wanda killed scores of them and is throwing the blame somewhere else

If they truly cared they'd bother investigating and keep Doom in their sights, they have more to fear from him than Wanda. Lots of blame to throw around for M-day - didn't stop Magneto, Xavier and Emma getting on their Council. maybe those three don't want everyone to remember what they were doing during that fateful incident, especially since the Moira X retcon.

Better call the Avengers or the FF lol

They definitely have shown more incentive to stop Doom and help Latveria when it counted but as long as Doom is somewhere we know Krakao won't be.

[Agent Z]

Honestly,they're never were. People like Professor X, Magneto, Storm, Ice-Man are inherently dangerous due to their powers, which bv they don't have perfect control of all the time.

Each of these characters are walking extinction level events. There is a justified fear of mutants because one can randomly manifest a power to blow up a city, or rip away you're free will, and there is no guarantee they can even control it, much less that they won't use it for less than moral purposes.

Even Cyclops is always one bump from getting those shades knocked off and knocking down an orphanage or something.

I find that Gargoyles and Ninja Turtles are better suited as allegories than the X-men since they aren't walking WMDs.

[Blind Wedjat]

X-Men are simply not suited to talk about allegorical racism anymore. Fantastic racism of their own? That's fine. But them being allegories for actual minorities is silly. Why would you need the X-Men to tell a story about racism and discrimination when you have characters like Luke Cage who can tackle a more real version of racism directly? Why can't you have actual LGBT heroes talking about their actual LGBT issues? The X-Men are just redundant in that scenario. They were created because you couldn't talk about that stuff, but now you can.

It also ignores the fact that not all oppression is the same. Being oppressed because you are BIPOC is not the same as being LGBTQ. And even within those communities, the discrimination people face occurs on different levels.

It also ignores the intersectionality that happens with different oppressed groups (i.e, for someone who is both BIPOC and LGBTQ).

[H-E-D]

"There's not enough humans in my X-Men" is a weird take.

[Zelena]

X-Men are simply not suited to talk about allegorical racism anymore. Fantastic racism of their own? That's fine. But them being allegories for actual minorities is silly. Why would you need the X-Men to tell a story about racism and discrimination when you have characters like Luke Cage who can tackle a more real version of racism directly? Why can't you have actual LGBT heroes talking about their actual LGBT issues? The X-Men are just redundant in that scenario. They were created because you couldn't talk about that stuff, but now you can.

Frankly, comics authors were much more bold about subjects like racism and other social-based issues before.

Now, they do like there are no more problems and then tend to make stories not very rooted in our time.

[Kisinith]

The number of people who don't understand "allegory" is both sad and frightening.

1. the expression by means of symbolic fictional figures and actions of truths or generalizations about human existence
2. a symbolic representation
Allegory is a more or less symbolic fictional narrative that conveys a secondary meaning (or meanings) not explicitly set forth in the literal narrative. Parables, myths, and fables are all considered types of allegories.

It seems to me that if Dr. Seuss and Aesop's Fables can provide effective allegories than the X-Men aren't in any danger of losing its relevance.

The X-Men are hated, feared, and despised collectively by humanity for no other reason than that they are mutants. So what we have..., intended or not, is a book that is about racism, bigotry, and prejudice.

Note what's missing here? No mention of Black, LGBTQ, Jewish, Muslim, Native American or any other specific group. Why? Because the allegories aren't about any one specific group, some stories reference one form of discrimination more closely than others but so what? The "M-Word" and mutie are very much inspired by the "N-Word" and anti-black racism but is that the only thing it can reference? Spoiler alert, there are specific derogatory and hurtful words used to describe other groups as well. A story about the "M-Word" may actually evoke meaning for someone who is, I dunno, gay for example. Or Jewish. Or.... Or....

There are frequent moments when the X-Men creative teams manage to turn a superhero soap-opera into an opportunity to meaningfully engage readers and viewers of all ages with social issues that are too often ignored by both the mainstream media and mainstream educational institutions. Even if the X-Men comics and films at times fail to adequately or accurately convey what scholars have learned about prejudice and group relations, they nevertheless open the door for historians and social scientists to weigh in and provide their own perspectives.

The racial politics of X-Men

The Ph.D. In the above quote seems to feel that their is value in the X-Men narrative, that would seem to poke a rather serious hole in the incorrect assertion that its pointless or has outlived its usefulness. There are also people, quite a few of them actually, fans of the X-Men who appreciate having it in the comics. I guess they are all just wrong huh?

I suppose I could suggest that if someone really can't stand all the metaphor and allegory in the X-Men perhaps they should try other comics? I mean its not like Spider-Man and Captain America also contain deeply embedded allegorical references to perceived societal ills...

[Kaitou D. Kid]

the mutant metaphor works because readers connect to it that way as a general allegory for oppressed minority groups, as long as the audience feels it, and writers don't do dumb things like "the m-word," it works despite different in-universe logistics, it not being a 1-1 thing is a strength that lets it be more broadly relatable, not a weakness

It's both a strength and a weakness. Its weakness is that readers will always connect more to another character than they do with X-Men. If you want to connect to a superhero experiencing classism, you would go to Spider-Man before going to the X-Men. If you want to connect to someone experiencing anti-black racism, you would go to Luke Cage or Black Panther before the X-Men (or Kamala Khan for anti-brown racism). If you want to connect to a character experiencing ableism, you would go to Daredevil before the X-Men. It's both versatile and at risk of ending up second-fiddle at the same time.