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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantor View Post
    I am the original poster
    Well, sorry again. Guess I just got carried away.

    Is this how you expected the discussion to go?

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veitha View Post
    Yeah human nature would make this very hard. There's a couple things that differentiate them though, such as psychic powers/being able to get into each other minds and understand each other better, or Resurrections. Forge is also working on automatons so I guess that smething like serving a bar could be automated. I think that if I were a Krakoan I'd feel the need to do some kind of job after a while, though.

    They also ask mutants that arrive on the island if they want to train or join X-Corps as interns, which is about dealing with their money, so they're probably opening up more jobs as time goes on.

    I love the points you've raised too
    Even if the psychics can help pacify the majority who rewards the psychics? It’s still a system of haves and have nots it’s only just started

  3. #48
    Astonishing Member Veitha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantor View Post
    Even if the psychics can help pacify the majority who rewards the psychics? Itís still a system of haves and have nots itís only just started
    The further we go, the more they'll be in communion. It's mutant magic


  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veitha View Post
    Yeah human nature would make this very hard. There's a couple things that differentiate them though, such as psychic powers/being able to get into each other minds and understand each other better, or Resurrections. Forge is also working on automatons so I guess that smething like serving a bar could be automated. I think that if I were a Krakoan I'd feel the need to do some kind of job after a while, though.

    They also ask mutants that arrive on the island if they want to train or join X-Corps as interns, which is about dealing with their money, so they're probably opening up more jobs as time goes on.

    I love the points you've raised too
    Another good point you raise is the desire of people (yourself in the example you use) to actually work and contribute to society.

    Loving this thread.

    It makes me also think about what's happening in the world currently and whether full blown market capitalism is the world we want to be going back to post pandemic.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veitha View Post
    The further we go, the more they'll be in communion. It's mutant magic

    The cuckoos are a union and they still have wants so it isn’t a sure thing

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantor View Post
    Even if the psychics can help pacify the majority who rewards the psychics? It’s still a system of haves and have nots it’s only just started
    A point I tried to make less eloquently earlier. Will the psychics think "I'm doing all this work and there's Sunfire (for want of a better example) just sitting getting drunk, I deserve more". Or if the psychics are getting rewarded somehow, Blob might be thinking "I'm doing all these hours behind this bar for next to no reward and those cuckoos are getting more rewards for doing half an hour a day".

    Great stuff, how do you value work?

    You're right it could well degenerate.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Joe View Post
    A point I tried to make less eloquently earlier. Will the psychics think "I'm doing all this work and there's Sunfire (for want of a better example) just sitting getting drunk, I deserve more". Or if the psychics are getting rewarded somehow, Blob might be thinking "I'm doing all these hours behind this bar for next to no reward and those cuckoos are getting more rewards for doing half an hour a day".

    Great stuff, how do you value work?

    You're right it could well degenerate.
    A thing I wanna bring up is that everyone living on krakoa is actually paying taxes to Krakoa itself. Krakoa feeds on mutant energy and everyone contributes. The question then becomes should everyone be paying the same amount? Xfactor just built a tower that will cost energy why should MLF guys have to support that with there life energy? Is There taxation without representation in krakoa right now?

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantor View Post
    A thing I wanna bring up is that everyone living on krakoa is actually paying taxes to Krakoa itself. Krakoa feeds on mutant energy and everyone contributes. The question then becomes should everyone be paying the same amount? Xfactor just built a tower that will cost energy why should MLF guys have to support that with there life energy? Is There taxation without representation in krakoa right now?
    Yes, you're right.

    What kind of representation is there on Krakoa? Are the council representing the views of ordinary citizens at all? Where does anyone with a grievance go? How are issues resolved? Have the council devolved any power locally?

    If Krakoa is taking equally from every citizen, then all citizens are equally valued, which I guess is a start. Until, as you say, some appear to get more for their equal contribution than others.

  9. #54
    Mighty Member Frobisher's Avatar
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    If countries can’t tax Amazon because Amazon off-shored all their finances to the Cayman Islands, why doesn’t the Cayman Islands just seize all of Amazon’s money and buy every citizen a yacht?

  10. #55
    Mighty Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Joe View Post
    Check out my earlier post about currency. They won't necessarily have, or need their own currency or bank. They could be using a friendly nation's currency, an, or, be pegged to another currency for the time being. That would mean that they also have a fixed rate of exchange based on the stronger currency.

    If they've gone their own way already (I assume Tempo would be able to make it possible), trading in their currency could have been mentally controlled for it to make vast amounts of money.

    Really interesting stuff this.
    Given the fact they want to make an impact on the global economy, X-men #4 was all about this, I would say is more effective for them to go with a national currency instead of a friendly nationīs help, at the moment the only nation that has been friendly with Krakoa is Wakanda and I doubt they would involve themselves with Krakoaīs economy.
    "The time for subtlety is passing. Now is the time for change." [New Mutants (Vol. 1) #38]

  11. #56
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    So a small history lesson of our own money. Originally in a lot of societies there were barter systems where people would directly exchange their services and goods (actually originally there were not specialities yet but we will skip that) the issue is direct trading is there is no consistenty to value. Like a farmers corn vs a doctors visit can’t be matched easily. So we used currency. Things like gold coins and bronze coins etc. then because people wanted safer ways to carry and other reasons so they had paper money. Now one thing people don’t realize is paper money were just IOUs issued out. So it matched the amount for the coins and stuff. Now we just have paper money that we assign value to

    Every society needs some currency. Not even for just outside use but sometimes for compensation or for fair services. So if what people in the thread said is true that Vita or others said there’s no currency that seems like more wishful thinking writing. And if you rely on other counties to handle your money then you put yourself at severe weakness because they can leverage your money and put Leins or holds or freezes on your money. Unless Xavier plans to strong arm companies if they do stuff like that then Krakoa needs an independent way to do business

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gripstir View Post
    So a small history lesson of our own money. Originally in a lot of societies there were barter systems where people would directly exchange their services and goods (actually originally there were not specialities yet but we will skip that) the issue is direct trading is there is no consistenty to value. Like a farmers corn vs a doctors visit can’t be matched easily. So we used currency. Things like gold coins and bronze coins etc. then because people wanted safer ways to carry and other reasons so they had paper money. Now one thing people don’t realize is paper money were just IOUs issued out. So it matched the amount for the coins and stuff. Now we just have paper money that we assign value to

    Every society needs some currency. Not even for just outside use but sometimes for compensation or for fair services. So if what people in the thread said is true that Vita or others said there’s no currency that seems like more wishful thinking writing. And if you rely on other counties to handle your money then you put yourself at severe weakness because they can leverage your money and put Leins or holds or freezes on your money. Unless Xavier plans to strong arm companies if they do stuff like that then Krakoa needs an independent way to do business
    Aristotle came up with the idea that money originally came from barter. But there are other schools of thought, it perhaps grew from a gift based society, and was quantifying "I owe you one".

    I entirely agree with the rest of your post about freezing assets being a danger if a nation doesn't have a separate currency, or distinct economic system. Having said that, there is the European Union which is now 27 countries with the same currency and economic system, so an agreement (series of treaties) like that can work, but the partnership has to be beneficial to all concerned.

    In the real world there would need to be trade agreements in place, these take years, sometimes decades to negotiate.

    I'm really impressed with the points being put forward on this thread.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gripstir View Post
    So a small history lesson of our own money. Originally in a lot of societies there were barter systems where people would directly exchange their services and goods (actually originally there were not specialities yet but we will skip that) the issue is direct trading is there is no consistenty to value. Like a farmers corn vs a doctors visit canít be matched easily. So we used currency. Things like gold coins and bronze coins etc. then because people wanted safer ways to carry and other reasons so they had paper money. Now one thing people donít realize is paper money were just IOUs issued out. So it matched the amount for the coins and stuff. Now we just have paper money that we assign value to

    Every society needs some currency. Not even for just outside use but sometimes for compensation or for fair services. So if what people in the thread said is true that Vita or others said thereís no currency that seems like more wishful thinking writing. And if you rely on other counties to handle your money then you put yourself at severe weakness because they can leverage your money and put Leins or holds or freezes on your money. Unless Xavier plans to strong arm companies if they do stuff like that then Krakoa needs an independent way to do business
    This was literally why I started this thread lol the more you look at krakoa the weaker it seems. Itís funds are completely dependent on other nations. They have no internal economy and while some people argue it. The country has only one export. Medical supplies which are only as valuable as demand allows. So if the X-men plan on having financial authority it seems like itís not working out well

  14. #59
    Mighty Member Frobisher's Avatar
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    The Federation in Star Trek has stocks of gold plated Latinum for trading with outsiders, because obviously as an actual civilised society they have abandoned money. Before the international finance markets became electronic, nations still moved money around in the form of gold bullion, which was frequently the target of fictional heists in TV and film. So Krakoa could literally accept gold payments passed via the portal system.

    Of course, we know Professor X has his finance tied up in loads of off-shore funds and shell companies, which you’d have to imagine would be really hard to track in the “it’s finance, I ain’t gonna explain shit!” kind of way beloved of drug cartels and Bond villains.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantor View Post
    This was literally why I started this thread lol the more you look at krakoa the weaker it seems. It’s funds are completely dependent on other nations. They have no internal economy and while some people argue it. The country has only one export. Medical supplies which are only as valuable as demand allows. So if the X-men plan on having financial authority it seems like it’s not working out well
    I mean, not just that, but of course what you've brought up stands out. But 12 people running an entire country? 12 people with no expertise in healthcare, economics, state education, defence, agriculture, overseas development, diplomacy, policing and a host of other things. I know, preposterous.

    But we suspend disbelief when reading comics, don't we? Saying that though, I'm like you, I feel that the society would start to break down, and I think that should be addressed. I think people would leave because they're not being properly provided for.

    The council is effectively a government, each member is like a cabinet minister and probably needs to have specific tasks, it's all a bit (a lot) arbitrary really.

    We can excuse it because it's just being set up, and things may change, but they need to change quickly, they need hundreds of civil servants in all departments. You just have to look at how government works in any country in the world.

    Some of the departments would make more interesting books than others I guess.

    The thing is they're not yet governing by consent, that's got to be dangerous for all of the council.

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