Page 2 of 9 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 131
  1. #16
    Astonishing Member cranger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    4,774

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    This thing about complaining about comics targeting a mature readership and this being a problem, i.e. abandoning their audience or growing up with them is that it's so vague as to be meaningless.
    It is just a version of events as he sees them and it is just written to illustrate how the industry (periodical comic books) shifted away from its original demographic. It seems you are trying to make it about other stuff that he is clearly not talking about and I can assure you he absolutely hates.

  2. #17
    Astonishing Member babyblob's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    New Richmond Ohio
    Posts
    2,494

    Default

    Why not have two lines of books? One line set in the normal universe that can do the stories they are doing now. And one geared towards a younger generation or the casual fan who just wants to read a Spider-man book without 58 years of history. Like simpler plots, maybe a bit more light hearted, not goofy but nor so serious. I enjoy y both types of stories. I enjoyed Punisher Max, but I really enjoy early Sliver Age Spider-Man, Fantastic Four, Xmen, more then really anything put out right now.
    Favorite teams. Alpha Flight, Avengers, Fantastic Four, West Coast Avengers, Justice Society of America, Legion of Superheroes.

  3. #18
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    The Sunless Realm
    Posts
    9,772

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Part of that issue is WHO is being used.

    If all those attempts are gpoing to be the ususual suspects. That kid is not going to have a hissy fit if he sees a book with Carol, Panther, Black Bolt, Miles or Widow. Unlike the adults who get offended.

    You know what you get with 20 X-Men and Batman books? Books collecting dust on shelves and discount bins.

    There is retail space-what some stores do is be SELECTIVE in who gets it.

    I'll give you an example-excluding Barnes & Nobles-do you know how hard it is to find a black male lead novel that is not thug life or sports at places like Wal-Mart and Target? I've had to online order thsoe books.
    And this is an issue I have seen with Marvel and DC books. It's not books like Moon Girl, it's books like Thor, Dr Strange and at times Supoerman.
    No, it is not about WHO is being used. It's about money. It's about a shrinking space for ALL print material.

    Yes, there is retail space available, and retailers are highly selective about who gets it. But that selection is based on money. You don't think Wal-Mart is GIVING those six magazines slots at the check out away, do you? No. Those publishers are paying, and paying a premium for that placement.

    The other thing that Conway doesn't mention about all those retailers who carried comics before the direct market, is that they only carried them as RETURNABLE items. That's another stumbling block that the industry is hesitant to deal with.
    ***Namor75 Celebration Threads***

    IMPERIUS REX FOREVER

  4. #19
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    The Sunless Realm
    Posts
    9,772

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    Why not have two lines of books? One line set in the normal universe that can do the stories they are doing now. And one geared towards a younger generation or the casual fan who just wants to read a Spider-man book without 58 years of history. Like simpler plots, maybe a bit more light hearted, not goofy but nor so serious. I enjoy y both types of stories. I enjoyed Punisher Max, but I really enjoy early Sliver Age Spider-Man, Fantastic Four, Xmen, more then really anything put out right now.
    They have that already.
    ***Namor75 Celebration Threads***

    IMPERIUS REX FOREVER

  5. #20
    Astonishing Member babyblob's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    New Richmond Ohio
    Posts
    2,494

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    They have that already.
    I didnt know that. What is the more simple line called?
    Favorite teams. Alpha Flight, Avengers, Fantastic Four, West Coast Avengers, Justice Society of America, Legion of Superheroes.

  6. #21
    Fantastic Member Grapeweasel's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    335

    Default

    Shut this forum down.

    C'mon. Everybody out!!!!!

  7. #22
    Boisterously Confused
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    6,343

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeweasel View Post
    Shut this forum down.

    C'mon. Everybody out!!!!!
    I'm ashamed to say it took me a second to get it before I burst out laughing. Nicely done!

  8. #23
    Spectacular Member Ikari's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    146

    Default

    I don't think continuity is a problem superhero comics have in trying to target wider audience or even 'middle-grade readers'. If you look at various forms of periodic fiction which is popular right now, whether it's TV or comics or cartoon or books, it's usually very continuity heavy. Many of the popular manga and anime are all about continuity and often much more anal about it than Marvel or DC superhero comics. People want to get invested and it works when you have nuances and details to hang into so that the world and characters feel real.
    But I think character bloat is a real problem. Too many issues have a character dropping in, throw a few punches and then disappear without explanation. For a longtime reader it's not a problem: "Oh nice to see that Falcon isn't forgotten after that nasty business with Hydra". But for someone who picks up the comic first time it feels confusing and cluttered. I think superhero comics could borrow few concepts from manga world, noticeably the big, self-contained arcs which allow for plot and character development without some event or crossover interrupting it every 5 minutes.

  9. #24
    Spectacular Member Ikari's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    146

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    I didnt know that. What is the more simple line called?
    'Marvel Adventures' was the comic line which targeted children, with simplified stories which were not part of the 616 continuity. I don't know if something like it still exists.

  10. #25
    Astonishing Member babyblob's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    New Richmond Ohio
    Posts
    2,494

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    'Marvel Adventures' was the comic line which targeted children, with simplified stories which were not part of the 616 continuity. I don't know if something like it still exists.
    I remember those. I had a great time reading them. I just didnt know if they had anything currently. If they dont you can make room for something like that by canceling one of the fifty X books.
    Favorite teams. Alpha Flight, Avengers, Fantastic Four, West Coast Avengers, Justice Society of America, Legion of Superheroes.

  11. #26
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    1,282

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    'Marvel Adventures' was the comic line which targeted children, with simplified stories which were not part of the 616 continuity. I don't know if something like it still exists.
    It still exists but it's sold by IDW or one of the other major indie companies.

  12. #27
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    55,716

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    I wouldn't agree with everything he says, but I feel he's more right than he is wrong.

    Comics have suffered for a long time because of people wanting their stories about super powered people in colorful tights to be more mature.
    But one could argue that the medium has developed immensely due to treating the characters and the properties more maturely.

  13. #28
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    5,873

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cranger View Post
    It is just a version of events as he sees them and it is just written to illustrate how the industry (periodical comic books) shifted away from its original demographic. It seems you are trying to make it about other stuff that he is clearly not talking about and I can assure you he absolutely hates.
    When he puts his words out on public, it's up to people to interpret. Conway's sketch very much paints Marvel after Lee, and specifically Marvel after himself as a decline.

    https://bleedingcool.com/comics/puni...perhero-comic/
    When I and my cohorts replaced the creatives who'd given the comic book business massive success in the 1960s, folks like Stan Lee and Julie Schwartz, we brought with us our Boomer self-obsession. We didn't want to create comics for kids. We wanted comics for *us.* That's the origin of comic book superheroes' shift from Middle-Grade readership in the 1960s to Young Adult readership in the 1970s, and Adult readership in the 1990s and beyond— the refusal of Boomer creatives and editors like myself and others to Let It Go. We redefined the readership comics were aimed at— coinciding with a shift in distribution that allowed that redefinition to stick. The result is a dead end for comic book publishing as a business. How would I change this?
    On one hand he's being self-deprecating by saying he was part of the problem, but on the other hand that's also a self-aggrandizement because it belittles or ignores the contributions made after Conway, or ignores the fact that Marvel's readership increased substantially in the 80s.

    Conway erases or ignores the existence of readers who discovered Marvel through Secret Wars, who came into comics via X-Men and others who read those comics as kids in the '80s.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I don't think continuity is a problem superhero comics have in trying to target wider audience or even 'middle-grade readers'. If you look at various forms of periodic fiction which is popular right now, whether it's TV or comics or cartoon or books, it's usually very continuity heavy. Many of the popular manga and anime are all about continuity and often much more anal about it than Marvel or DC superhero comics. People want to get invested and it works when you have nuances and details to hang into so that the world and characters feel real.
    But I think character bloat is a real problem. Too many issues have a character dropping in, throw a few punches and then disappear without explanation. For a longtime reader it's not a problem: "Oh nice to see that Falcon isn't forgotten after that nasty business with Hydra". But for someone who picks up the comic first time it feels confusing and cluttered. I think superhero comics could borrow few concepts from manga world, noticeably the big, self-contained arcs which allow for plot and character development without some event or crossover interrupting it every 5 minutes.
    Exactly.

    Readers like it when their investment is rewarded, and that's what continuity is for. And as you mention about manga, that's big in that group and it's even more specific.

    Conway talked about Harry Potter, well the thing about those books is that the character grew up and young kids who read the books with all 7 on the shelf, get a complete story about a kid who went from 11-17.

    Conway is making what is a distribution issue, and also a payment issue, into a content issue.

  14. #29
    Spectacular Member Ikari's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    146

    Default

    Yes, later Harry Potter books are like 3 times the thickness and much darker and more mature than the first. It's not like Rowling wrote the same book 7 times in a row.

  15. #30
    Astonishing Member cranger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    4,774

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    When he puts his words out on public, it's up to people to interpret. Conway's sketch very much paints Marvel after Lee, and specifically Marvel after himself as a decline.



    On one hand he's being self-deprecating by saying he was part of the problem, but on the other hand that's also a self-aggrandizement because it belittles or ignores the contributions made after Conway, or ignores the fact that Marvel's readership increased substantially in the 80s.

    Conway erases or ignores the existence of readers who discovered Marvel through Secret Wars, who came into comics via X-Men and others who read those comics as kids in the '80s.
    You seem to be inferring blame where he is just revealing a trend. The exact dots on the chart are not important. Nothing he says is exactly a secret, it is just a backstory to support what he things the market needs now.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •