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  1. #1

    Default Resurrection Protocols for Clones

    In Hellions #4 the Goblin Queen was killed, however, the resurrection protocols did not apply to her because she was a clone of Jean Grey. Why did the protocols not apply to her but were applied to other clones like the Stepford cuckoos? Not to mention the Von Strucker twins have shown up on Krakoa after they've been cloned as well. The invitation to Krakoa was extended to the Omega Clan but not Madelyne despite all being clones.
    Does the quiet council pick and choose which clones they resurrect?
    In my opinion, I think that clones should be applied to the resurrection process, they are their own person and have their own way of thinking. If Genesis (clone of Apocalypse) were to be killed, would he be resurrected?
    Mutant Clones:
    Madelyne Pryor (Goblin Queen)
    The Omega Clan (Omega Red, Omega White, Omega Black)
    Evan Sabahnur (Genesis)
    Reignfire
    Lady Fantomex
    Dark Fantomex
    Joseph
    Xraven
    The Stepford Cuckoos
    Laura Kinney (Wolverine)
    Gabby Kinney (Scout)
    Bellona
    Zelda
    Unnamed X-23 clones
    Stryfe
    Adriana Soria (Princess)
    X-Beast
    Henry McCoy (Sinister Clone)
    Varkis
    Shogun
    James Howlett (Sinister Clone)
    Kouen
    Cortex (Madrox Dupe)
    John Maddox (Madrox Dupe)
    Kurt Wagner (Sinister Clone)
    Namorita Prentiss
    Ororo Munroe (Sinister Clone)
    Revenant Storm
    Robert Drake (Sinister Clone)
    Scott Summers (Inhuman Clone)
    Warren Worthington III (Clone)
    Death-Flight
    Alice hayes (Clone)
    N2

    How would alternate reality duplicates be treated?
    Vampire Strom was killed on Earth-616 so will she be resurrected? X-Man is another reality duplicate and Blink has a duplicate running around as well.

  2. #2
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Laura isn't a clone. She's basically an IVF baby, created by Sarah Kinney using Logan's DNA without his knowledge. Sarah's bosses wanted a full clone, but the DNA sample was damaged, so she added her own and then made herself pregnant - the result is a natural born child with similar powers to Logan, but who is female and physically looks like Sarah.
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  3. #3
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    Not sure about the rest but what sets Maddie apart is what gave her life was jeans soul her first words were scott a man jean loved. So in that sense wouldn't she still be an inanimate object if she isn't given a bit of jeans soul. The rest don't really have that kind of conflict as far as I know. Gabbie may be a clone but all her memories are her own.

    Oh and the cuckoo's are clones of Emma and all five are back now so there is examples of cones being resurrected. But again they don't have Emma's memories or her soul. They were made from her eggs.
    Last edited by jwatson; 09-25-2020 at 03:57 AM.
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  4. #4
    Spectacular Member Ikari's Avatar
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    In the other thread I brought up a possibility of resurrecting Illyana Rasputin - the kid version who died in Legacy virus - on the grounds that she was a different person to Illyana who is around now. Prevailing opinion was that she would be counted as a 'clone' and not brought back. Though I suppose technically she was an alternative reality version.
    Any way, as the definition of 'clone' and 'duplicate' is quite muddled and vague, any rule governing it is too by definition. Personally I'm puzzled at the interpretation that Madelyne counts as a clone but Cuckoos do not, even though their histories are practically identical. And I mean, if they bring Esme and Sophie back, then why not ALL the Cuckoos - there were hundreds.

    In fact, Madelyne was not even genetically identical to Jean -she never had an X-gene. Why was not that brought up instead of 'clone' thing? Or did she became a mutant at some point?
    Last edited by Ikari; 09-25-2020 at 04:10 AM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Laura isn't a clone. She's basically an IVF baby, created by Sarah Kinney using Logan's DNA without his knowledge. Sarah's bosses wanted a full clone, but the DNA sample was damaged, so she added her own and then made herself pregnant - the result is a natural born child with similar powers to Logan, but who is female and physically looks like Sarah.
    No she isnt, Taylor clarified on twitter she's still a clone just with saras dna in her. Marvel was trying to be cute and have it so you could caller her his clone and daughter but return forced all of that in to two panels.

    Also shw never impregnated her self, that was Zander rice forcing her to carry laura to term because he's a dick

  6. #6
    Ultimate Member Ambaryerno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMutantTheorist View Post
    In Hellions #4 the Goblin Queen was killed, however, the resurrection protocols did not apply to her because she was a clone of Jean Grey. Why did the protocols not apply to her but were applied to other clones like the Stepford cuckoos? Not to mention the Von Strucker twins have shown up on Krakoa after they've been cloned as well. The invitation to Krakoa was extended to the Omega Clan but not Madelyne despite all being clones.
    Does the quiet council pick and choose which clones they resurrect?
    In my opinion, I think that clones should be applied to the resurrection process, they are their own person and have their own way of thinking. If Genesis (clone of Apocalypse) were to be killed, would he be resurrected?
    Mutant Clones:
    Madelyne Pryor (Goblin Queen)
    The Omega Clan (Omega Red, Omega White, Omega Black)
    Evan Sabahnur (Genesis)
    Reignfire
    Lady Fantomex
    Dark Fantomex
    Joseph
    Xraven
    The Stepford Cuckoos
    Laura Kinney (Wolverine)
    Gabby Kinney (Scout)
    Bellona
    Zelda
    Unnamed X-23 clones
    Stryfe
    Adriana Soria (Princess)
    X-Beast
    Henry McCoy (Sinister Clone)
    Varkis
    Shogun
    James Howlett (Sinister Clone)
    Kouen
    Cortex (Madrox Dupe)
    John Maddox (Madrox Dupe)
    Kurt Wagner (Sinister Clone)
    Namorita Prentiss
    Ororo Munroe (Sinister Clone)
    Revenant Storm
    Robert Drake (Sinister Clone)
    Scott Summers (Inhuman Clone)
    Warren Worthington III (Clone)
    Death-Flight
    Alice hayes (Clone)
    N2

    How would alternate reality duplicates be treated?
    Vampire Strom was killed on Earth-616 so will she be resurrected? X-Man is another reality duplicate and Blink has a duplicate running around as well.
    Zelda and the other Sisters weren't mutants, so it's highly doubtful they'd be resurrected. Gabby is the only one who developed the X Gene.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dthirds3 View Post
    No she isnt, Taylor clarified on twitter she's still a clone just with saras dna in her. Marvel was trying to be cute and have it so you could caller her his clone and daughter but return forced all of that in to two panels.

    Also shw never impregnated her self, that was Zander rice forcing her to carry laura to term because he's a dick
    Even Laura's own origin story by Kyle and Yost established she's not a true clone.
    Still hoping for that Helix Reunion...

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  7. #7
    Fantastic Member Alex.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Personally I'm puzzled at the interpretation that Madelyne counts as a clone but Cuckoos do not, even though their histories are practically identical. And I mean, if they bring Esme and Sophie back, then why not ALL the Cuckoos - there were hundreds.
    Maddie is an intereting case. At the end of Inferno Jean took maddie's memories. The Maddie taht's been wandering around is something broght by X-man|an AU Jean. We don't know who she is in fact.

    As for the Cuckoos, IDK. Their powers are kind of different from Emma, and they were made of her eggs. Maybe they're not exactly clones of Emma (but of each other), since they show some feautures that Emma dosn't have and that includes being able to use telepathy while in diamond form. As for the thousand-in-one, I'm not sure those count since I don't believe they had a personality. To me they're just shells without something inside, just like those Kitty Prides eggs that were made in Marauders. This is an interesting topic to discuss.

  8. #8
    Astonishing Member Askani's Flame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex. View Post
    Maddie is an intereting case. At the end of Inferno Jean took maddie's memories. The Maddie taht's been wandering around is something broght by X-man|an AU Jean. We don't know who she is in fact.

    As for the Cuckoos, IDK. Their powers are kind of different from Emma, and they were made of her eggs. Maybe they're not exactly clones of Emma (but of each other), since they show some feautures that Emma dosn't have and that includes being able to use telepathy while in diamond form. As for the thousand-in-one, I'm not sure those count since I don't believe they had a personality. To me they're just shells without something inside, just like those Kitty Prides eggs that were made in Marauders. This is an interesting topic to discuss.
    I'd say that the Cuckoos are clones, but not of Emma. When her eggs were harvested and played with, one "perfect" embryo was created to which then the Weapon program cloned thousands of that embryo. So they are clones but not in the sense of what is being discussed with Maddie. Hence why they have similar but different abilities than Emma.

  9. #9

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    I think because the Phoenix gave Maddie's body a lifespark and she had her own individual memories separate from Jean, I think Maddie had a true soul of her own and she deserves to be resurrected!

    I still believe personally that Jean voted in favor of resurrecting Maddie, I know people will disagree, but I think Jean would think that since they have given so many a second chance on Krakoa that Maddie deserved the same chance! The whole Sinister thing was suspicious, did he send the Marauders to attack Maddie, and she was reacting to being attacked and attacking back! Since Sinister sits on the Krakoa Quiet Council, Maddie could easily have interpreted an attack like Krakoa was deliberately attacking her while other "villains" were given a chance at amnesty!

    My hope is that Jean steps in and helps Havok bring Maddie back! I hope that's a future story for Maddie!
    We are MUTANT..Krakoa, FOREVER!!! “Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité”

  10. #10
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RachelGrey View Post
    I think because the Phoenix gave Maddie's body a lifespark and she had her own individual memories separate from Jean, I think Maddie had a true soul of her own and she deserves to be resurrected!

    I still believe personally that Jean voted in favor of resurrecting Maddie, I know people will disagree, but I think Jean would think that since they have given so many a second chance on Krakoa that Maddie deserved the same chance! The whole Sinister thing was suspicious, did he send the Marauders to attack Maddie, and she was reacting to being attacked and attacking back! Since Sinister sits on the Krakoa Quiet Council, Maddie could easily have interpreted an attack like Krakoa was deliberately attacking her while other "villains" were given a chance at amnesty!

    My hope is that Jean steps in and helps Havok bring Maddie back! I hope that's a future story for Maddie!
    She had Jean's soul and she had Jean's memories as well. Even her love and attraction to Scott was Jeans. The memories she had prior to waking up were all false and planted by Sinister. The memories she developed went to Jean when the portion of her soul that was taken was returned

    I dont think Jean voted yes bc she wouldnt have viewed this thing as the real Maddie bc she knows she died and merged with her in Inferno. They were integrated into one person. If Maddie were to ever be brought back, it should not be this demonic perversion that we saw in Hellions as she wasnt the original or real deal.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dthirds3 View Post
    No she isnt, Taylor clarified on twitter she's still a clone just with saras dna in her. Marvel was trying to be cute and have it so you could caller her his clone and daughter but return forced all of that in to two panels.

    Also shw never impregnated her self, that was Zander rice forcing her to carry laura to term because he's a dick
    This explanation is some nonsense from someone who clearly doesn't understand biology

  12. #12
    Grizzled Veteran Jackraow21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woozie View Post
    This explanation is some nonsense from someone who clearly doesn't understand biology
    Yeah... when you combine the DNA of more than one person, it’s not really a clone. She was created in an attempt to clone Logan, but in actuality she is truly more of a daughter biologically.

  13. #13
    Spectacular Member Ikari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex. View Post
    Maddie is an intereting case. At the end of Inferno Jean took maddie's memories. The Maddie taht's been wandering around is something broght by X-man|an AU Jean. We don't know who she is in fact.
    Okay, I haven't read those. Did the new Maddie have powers? Original Madelyne, who died in Inferno, was not a mutant - or a mutate - that was made absolutely clear. Her powers were part of the Phoenix Force.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex. View Post
    As for the Cuckoos, IDK. Their powers are kind of different from Emma, and they were made of her eggs. Maybe they're not exactly clones of Emma (but of each other), since they show some feautures that Emma dosn't have and that includes being able to use telepathy while in diamond form. As for the thousand-in-one, I'm not sure those count since I don't believe they had a personality. To me they're just shells without something inside, just like those Kitty Prides eggs that were made in Marauders. This is an interesting topic to discuss.
    Cuckoos were made from Emma, but I don't believe they are identical to her. I am sure Emma would have noticed "Hmm, these girls look exactly like me when I was younger". Also Emma had a nose job done in her teens. Girls don't look like they need one.

    Any way, if the 'no clones' argument applies to Madelyne and Illyana, then it should also apply on Sophie and Esme who are indisputably clones.

  14. #14
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Okay, I haven't read those. Did the new Maddie have powers? Original Madelyne, who died in Inferno, was not a mutant - or a mutate - that was made absolutely clear. Her powers were part of the Phoenix Force.


    .
    Yes


    Telepathy, telekinesis, teleportation and access to demonic magic

    As for Madelyne not being a mutant, are you sure about that? She was an exact clone of Jean. She had latent powers that were unlocked when she made the deal with N'astirh. The PF gave her life, not her powers

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackraow21 View Post
    Yeah... when you combine the DNA of more than one person, it’s not really a clone. She was created in an attempt to clone Logan, but in actuality she is truly more of a daughter biologically.
    The only time this was referenced by mavel was in a article leading up to dissambled where it stated she was trying to figure out how the hell it makes sence and why did no one bring this up before hand. Marvel was teying to be cute/jame what was probably a arc for ANW that was cut for return of wolverine and just forgot about it.

    Also why are we apling real wold sicnece to comics now
    Last edited by Dthirds3; 09-25-2020 at 09:16 AM.

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