Resurrection Protocols for Clones

[cranger]

As for Madelyne not being a mutant, are you sure about that? She was an exact clone of Jean. She had latent powers that were unlocked when she made the deal with N'astirh. The PF gave her life, not her powers

I don't assume to know what counts anymore, but during Inferno it was revealed that Maddie used powers to cause Cyclops to lose the fight with Storm. While I don't know if it was outright said she was a mutant it would make sense, but then again that depends on who is deciding what mutant means lol.

[Beetle]

I would really call Cluster and Weapon XIII clones.

They are all one third of the original Fantomex. Just in separate bodies. Resurrecting one but not the other 2 just seems like playing favorites

[jwatson]

In the other thread I brought up a possibility of resurrecting Illyana Rasputin - the kid version who died in Legacy virus - on the grounds that she was a different person to Illyana who is around now. Prevailing opinion was that she would be counted as a 'clone' and not brought back. Though I suppose technically she was an alternative reality version.
Any way, as the definition of 'clone' and 'duplicate' is quite muddled and vague, any rule governing it is too by definition. Personally I'm puzzled at the interpretation that Madelyne counts as a clone but Cuckoos do not, even though their histories are practically identical. And I mean, if they bring Esme and Sophie back, then why not ALL the Cuckoos - there were hundreds.

In fact, Madelyne was not even genetically identical to Jean -she never had an X-gene. Why was not that brought up instead of 'clone' thing? Or did she became a mutant at some point?

What Makes maddie different and a true clone for me is the fact that she had no life until a piece of Jean's soul gave it to her. I think in the sense of a clone maddie is probably the truest thing to a clone there ever has been. She is an exact duplicate of Jean but unlike other "clones" she exhibited no forms of life until the soul of the original allowed her to come to life. I guess one could also say what happened to Jean is also the exact process of the resurrection protocols. Maddie was a shell of Jean until a piece of jean's id found what it thought was it's body. Out of all the bodies in existence it chose that one. Which shows a tie between id and body at least for mutants.

Also in Hellions it was heavily implied maddie is a mutant and i think it was lowkey confirmed by asking the council to bring her back which was denied. The resurrection process is for mutants so on some level maddie became one.

[Lady Midnight]

Emma would always insist that the Cuckoos be brought back, Wolverine and Dakken would argue for Laura and Gabby, it appears that nobody really wants Maddie or Joseph back. According to hints dropped in solicitations spoilers:

The point might become moot anyway

end of spoilers

[Ikari]

As for Madelyne not being a mutant, are you sure about that? She was an exact clone of Jean. She had latent powers that were unlocked when she made the deal with N'astirh. The PF gave her life, not her powers

Madelyne was Sinister's 'failed copy' of Jean and he was very disappointed she didn't show any hint of powers. Until Jean died and Madelyne awoke and seemed to demonstrate some kind of connection to Jean. I'm pretty sure Sinister would have discovered if she was a latent mutant. Nor did Xavier or Genoshans ever discover any mutation in her.
Genoshans had a guy (forgot the name) who had the ability to deactivate any mutant or mutate powers. He used his powers on Madelyne, for no avail. She still obliterated the Magistrate team which tried to open her psyche.

So as far as up until Inferno, she was a regular human who just controlled part of the Phoenix force. I guess one could argue that her Phoenix powers unconsciously concealed her from detectors and whatnot. But seems pretty contrived, easier just to assume she had no X-gene? But as said I am not on board with later developments, might just as be she is retconned as super-latent mutant or something.

[Havok83]

Madelyne was Sinister's 'failed copy' of Jean and he was very disappointed she didn't show any hint of powers. Until Jean died and Madelyne awoke and seemed to demonstrate some kind of connection to Jean. I'm pretty sure Sinister would have discovered if she was a latent mutant. Nor did Xavier or Genoshans ever discover any mutation in her.
Genoshans had a guy (forgot the name) who had the ability to deactivate any mutant or mutate powers. He used his powers on Madelyne, for no avail. She still obliterated the Magistrate team which tried to open her psyche.

So as far as up until Inferno, she was a regular human who just controlled part of the Phoenix force. I guess one could argue that her Phoenix powers unconsciously concealed her from detectors and whatnot. But seems pretty contrived, easier just to assume she had no X-gene? But as said I am not on board with later developments, might just as be she is retconned as super-latent mutant or something.

Sinister said that her powers didnt manifest, which implies that she had them but that they were latent. He didnt say that she wasnt a mutant. She was a vegetable with no life so there was no way for her to manifest any powers. There was no mind or memories for him to probe to even test her TP. He also states that she has all of Jean's genetical potential and powers which more than implies that she was an exact genetic replica

The genoshans didnt detect mutation on her bc of Roman's spell making her undetectable by electronic tech. When they scanned her, it appeared as if she didnt exist. She exhibited powers when on Genosha. A telepath and his team of support telepaths did a probe of her mind and she used her powers to annihilate them. The Magistrate was confused by her bc she didnt display any outwards powers ubt she heavihl hinted to him that she had psi-talent. That was obviously Claremont laying the groundwork for Inferno as the hints were pretty heavy in that story

As for Xavier? Its bc she originally wasnted intended to be a mutant. That was a retcon that came later and he wasnt around for that for us to get any commentary from him. Claremont tried to connect things that he had written like Scott losing the fight with Storm as Maddie using her powers but obviously not everything fit bc of the retcon but Inferno didnt imply she wasnt a mutant

[Digifiend]

Cuckoos were made from Emma, but I don't believe they are identical to her. I am sure Emma would have noticed "Hmm, these girls look exactly like me when I was younger". Also Emma had a nose job done in her teens. Girls don't look like they need one.

Hair colour is different too. The Cuckoos are natural blondes, but Emma's colour is from a bottle.

[Gray Lensman]

Emma would always insist that the Cuckoos be brought back, Wolverine and Dakken would argue for Laura and Gabby, it appears that nobody really wants Maddie or Joseph back. According to hints dropped in solicitations [spoilers]The point might become moot anyway[/spoilers]

It's been so long I forgot how to make spoiler tags

Drop the "ers" at the end. Spoil, not spoilers.

spoilers:

like this

end of spoilers

[TheMutantTheorist]

In the New-New Warriors book that hasn't been released yet, Namorita is clearly alive. Last I remembered she was dead. Do you think she was resurrected on Krakoa? She is the clone daughter of Namora. There's also a time-displaced Namorita running around so do you think that could be whose on the panels? I honestly don't think so. It would be cool to tie in Namorita's resurrection with Krakoa as her mutant heritage is not really touched upon but they are probably gonna use some other plot device like magic or something.

First Is the time-displaced Namorita and the second is 616.

[TheMutantTheorist]

Laura isn't a clone. She's basically an IVF baby, created by Sarah Kinney using Logan's DNA without his knowledge. Sarah's bosses wanted a full clone, but the DNA sample was damaged, so she added her own and then made herself pregnant - the result is a natural born child with similar powers to Logan, but who is female and physically looks like Sarah.

Ya, I was lowkey confused with Laura because I remember that happening but I wasn't sure if it was touched upon again. This makes me think about other characters that have received mutant DNA, are they considered artificial mutants? cuz if they got an x-gene then wouldn't that make them mutants artificial or not?
I'm not talking about Deadpool tho even tho his healing factor came from Wolverine. It's been confirmed he's just a human mutate.
The only characters that come to mind right away are Tiger Shark (Namor) and Weapon H (Wolverine). You can argue that they arent mutants but sinister became a mutant through the same way.

[Nazrel]

Ya, I was lowkey confused with Laura because I remember that happening but I wasn't sure if it was touched upon again. This makes me think about other characters that have received mutant DNA, are they considered artificial mutants? cuz if they got an x-gene then wouldn't that make them mutants artificial or not?
I'm not talking about Deadpool tho even tho his healing factor came from Wolverine. It's been confirmed he's just a human mutate.
The only characters that come to mind right away are Tiger Shark (Namor) and Weapon H (Wolverine). You can argue that they arent mutants but sinister became a mutant through the same way.

It's not been touched on.

In the original story she duplicated the X chromosome for the explicit purpose of bypassing the genetic damage of the sample they were working with while still keeping her a genetic duplicate of Logan; then in Adamantium Agenda, Tony Stark said she had some of her mothers genetic material in her, because he saw her genetic code for a fraction of a second; this has not been explained or followed up on, it remains an unmoored declaration.

[Ambaryerno]

It's not been touched on.

In the original story she duplicated the X chromosome for the explicit purpose of bypassing the genetic damage of the sample they were working with while still keeping her a genetic duplicate of Logan; then in Adamantium Agenda, Tony Stark said she had some of her mothers genetic material in her, because he saw her genetic code for a fraction of a second; this has not been explained or followed up on, it remains an unmoored declaration.

The problem is that Kyle and Yost left a plot hole by having Laura resemble Sarah Kinney (and Deborah explicitly mentions that Laura looks a great deal like her in Target X, and every artist since Innocence Lost has established the exact same visual connection). The only way that works is if she inherited genetic traits from Sarah, and that doesn't happen from mtDNA. If the only genetic source was Logan's X chromosome, then if she looked like ANYONE it would have been Elizabeth Howlett, possibly with a touch of Thomas Logan due to recombination shenanigans.

I've said before: As X-Men retcons go it's probably one of the easiest to work with. Sarah said the Y chromosome was MORE damaged. Thus the X chromosome implicitly had SOME damage. "I need to repair that damage, but I can't access the regular donor banks because this project is under my boss's nose. Let me grab a cotton swab..." Sarah was in full "For Science!" mode up until Rice forced her to carry, so at the time wouldn't have thought any more of it.

[Lady Midnight]

Drop the "ers" at the end. Spoil, not spoilers.

spoilers:

like this

end of spoilers

thank you.

[Dthirds3]

The problem is that Kyle and Yost left a plot hole by having Laura resemble Sarah Kinney (and Deborah explicitly mentions that Laura looks a great deal like her in Target X, and every artist since Innocence Lost has established the exact same visual connection). The only way that works is if she inherited genetic traits from Sarah, and that doesn't happen from mtDNA. If the only genetic source was Logan's X chromosome, then if she looked like ANYONE it would have been Elizabeth Howlett, possibly with a touch of Thomas Logan due to recombination shenanigans.

I've said before: As X-Men retcons go it's probably one of the easiest to work with. Sarah said the Y chromosome was MORE damaged. Thus the X chromosome implicitly had SOME damage. "I need to repair that damage, but I can't access the regular donor banks because this project is under my boss's nose. Let me grab a cotton swab..." Sarah was in full "For Science!" mode up until Rice forced her to carry, so at the time wouldn't have thought any more of it.

It wasn't a plot hole, they said they wanted laura being carried to term by Sarah to influence he apperance via mitochondria transfer via the ambilical cord.

[Gray Lensman]

The problem is that Kyle and Yost left a plot hole by having Laura resemble Sarah Kinney (and Deborah explicitly mentions that Laura looks a great deal like her in Target X, and every artist since Innocence Lost has established the exact same visual connection). The only way that works is if she inherited genetic traits from Sarah, and that doesn't happen from mtDNA. If the only genetic source was Logan's X chromosome, then if she looked like ANYONE it would have been Elizabeth Howlett, possibly with a touch of Thomas Logan due to recombination shenanigans.

I've said before: As X-Men retcons go it's probably one of the easiest to work with. Sarah said the Y chromosome was MORE damaged. Thus the X chromosome implicitly had SOME damage. "I need to repair that damage, but I can't access the regular donor banks because this project is under my boss's nose. Let me grab a cotton swab..." Sarah was in full "For Science!" mode up until Rice forced her to carry, so at the time wouldn't have thought any more of it.

Additionally, this helps explain Laura's green eyes (although she seems to be drawn as blue eyed now). Logan can't, by known definition, carry a green eyed gene. The green eyed gene is a bit of an odd duck, being recessive to the brown eyed gene, but dominant over the blue eyed gene. Logan, by virtue of having blue eyes, is unable to have even one gene for green eyes.

Hazel eyes aren't fully understood - the gene (or multiple genes) that shifts another color to them is in some other place on the genome.

And that concludes today's unasked for science lesson.