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  1. #31
    Ultimate Member Ambaryerno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dthirds3 View Post
    It wasn't a plot hole, they said they wanted laura being carried to term by Sarah to influence he apperance via mitochondria transfer via the ambilical cord.
    Except that's NOT HOW MITOCHONDRIA WORK. Mitochondria produce ENERGY. That's it. They carry no genetic material that influences what you look like.
    Still hoping for that Helix Reunion...

    The New X-Men: Can't let you grow up because you make everyone look old. But we can sure as @#$% mindlessly kill you off for shock value!

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  2. #32
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    Just to be clear where applying real world sicence to a medium where a random gene can let you shit out black holes.

    Also I might be confusing mitochondria with another cell, was never good in biology
    Last edited by Dthirds3; 09-25-2020 at 04:59 PM.

  3. #33
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    Additionally, this helps explain Laura's green eyes (although she seems to be drawn as blue eyed now). Logan can't, by known definition, carry a green eyed gene. The green eyed gene is a bit of an odd duck, being recessive to the brown eyed gene, but dominant over the blue eyed gene. Logan, by virtue of having blue eyes, is unable to have even one gene for green eyes.

    Hazel eyes aren't fully understood - the gene (or multiple genes) that shifts another color to them is in some other place on the genome.

    And that concludes today's unasked for science lesson.
    Even thats changed as she was originally colored with hazel eyes in her earliest X-men appearances





    the colorist even colored the same here, probably bc he figured as a clone (before her origin mini was dropped) they should be identical

  4. #34
    Incredible Member Nazrel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambaryerno View Post
    The problem is that Kyle and Yost left a plot hole by having Laura resemble Sarah Kinney (and Deborah explicitly mentions that Laura looks a great deal like her in Target X, and every artist since Innocence Lost has established the exact same visual connection). The only way that works is if she inherited genetic traits from Sarah, and that doesn't happen from mtDNA. If the only genetic source was Logan's X chromosome, then if she looked like ANYONE it would have been Elizabeth Howlett, possibly with a touch of Thomas Logan due to recombination shenanigans.

    I've said before: As X-Men retcons go it's probably one of the easiest to work with. Sarah said the Y chromosome was MORE damaged. Thus the X chromosome implicitly had SOME damage. "I need to repair that damage, but I can't access the regular donor banks because this project is under my boss's nose. Let me grab a cotton swab..." Sarah was in full "For Science!" mode up until Rice forced her to carry, so at the time wouldn't have thought any more of it.
    Yes, it was damaged, and they were repairing by mapping to Logan's genome and reconstructing on it's most basic level; she duplicated the X-chromosome for the explicit purpose of fixing the damage quickly while keeping it all Logan's DNA. Even if she were going to use her own genetic material, it would have been broken down to it's base components so that it wouldn't have any impact on her at all, or it would defeat the point of doing all this in the first place; and you don't even require genetic material, you can just construct genes out of basic chemical elements.

    It doesn't matter if her physical characteristics don't completely work when real world science is applied; this is a fantastical setting, real world science does not matter at all, unless it is brought up and incorporated as an element of the plot, and even then it doesn't have to aheare on a 1 for 1 level, it just needs to make sense in regards to the internal logic the narrative has established. Fiction needs to make sense in relation to narrative, not in relation to science; your idea does not work, because it is completely at odds with the underling narrative point of making her female in the first place. If they choose to explain that she did a little genetic spackling on a level that is basically immaterial to save time, fine; but they have not done that, they have explained nothing.

    Which brings me back to the point of my initial statement; which is, that it is an unmoored plot point.
    It was not explained, did not lead into anything, was in any way followed up on, or really serve any narrative point; it just contradicted stuff, and was tacked at the end of a forgettable tie in mini she wasn't even advertised as being in, and can simply be dismissed as "Tony only had a second, and read it wrong."

    There is nothing affixing it as a staying or essential element going forward, they're basically ignoring it at this point; maybe they'll do something, maybe just dismiss it, it's schrodingers plot point at the moment. (I honestly don't care what they do, so long as they explain how it fits within the established narrative.)
    Last edited by Nazrel; 09-25-2020 at 07:01 PM.
    Context is king.

    X-23's most basic surface level characteristic that any idiot should grasp: Stoicism.
    I don't demand that her every minor appearance be a nuance in-depth examination of her character, but is it to much to ask she be written in Archetype?! This is storytelling 101! If you want people to stay invested in a character, you need to, at the bare minimum, write them such a way that they can plausibly be believed to be the same character!

  5. #35
    Spectacular Member Ikari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Sinister said that her powers didnt manifest, which implies that she had them but that they were latent. He didnt say that she wasnt a mutant. She was a vegetable with no life so there was no way for her to manifest any powers. There was no mind or memories for him to probe to even test her TP. He also states that she has all of Jean's genetical potential and powers which more than implies that she was an exact genetic replica

    The genoshans didnt detect mutation on her bc of Roman's spell making her undetectable by electronic tech. When they scanned her, it appeared as if she didnt exist. She exhibited powers when on Genosha. A telepath and his team of support telepaths did a probe of her mind and she used her powers to annihilate them. The Magistrate was confused by her bc she didnt display any outwards powers ubt she heavihl hinted to him that she had psi-talent. That was obviously Claremont laying the groundwork for Inferno as the hints were pretty heavy in that story

    As for Xavier? Its bc she originally wasnted intended to be a mutant. That was a retcon that came later and he wasnt around for that for us to get any commentary from him. Claremont tried to connect things that he had written like Scott losing the fight with Storm as Maddie using her powers but obviously not everything fit bc of the retcon but Inferno didnt imply she wasnt a mutant
    As I said, Magistrate had someone who had ability to deactivate powers - Wipeout was his name now when I checked - who stopped both Wolverine's and Rogue's powers working. But he couldn't do anything to Madelyne. He said she did not have any kind of powers. Now, of course you can always assume that Phoenix was just too strong for him to affect, but easier explanation is that Wipeout was right, and Madelyne had no powers of her own. By time of Genosha incident, Inferno storyline was in full swing and Madelyne had already become Goblyn Queen.

    Any way, I don't have particular bone to pick here, I'm just saying that up until Inferno it was played that Madelyne was not a mutant. That was the original intent, yes, but later developments did not need to overwrite it. If Madelyne had an X-gene, even latent one, one would have expected Sinister to discover it. He was really good at that, cutting mutants up and finding what makes them tick...

    And of course this is the sort of thing which gets retconned all the time so maybe she now is a mutant. It's like Cloak & Dagger, they were mutates first, then retconned to latent mutants because mutants were suddenly trendy, then retconned again to mutates.
    Last edited by Ikari; 09-25-2020 at 05:59 PM.

  6. #36
    Astonishing Member cranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I'm just saying that up until Inferno it was played that Madelyne was not a mutant
    She was also up to that or very near point not a clone of Jean Grey either. It was a very by the seat of their pants time. Most stories back then were just written month to month, things were made sense of down the line in handbooks of some sort.

  7. #37
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Because they don’t like Mandy I assume. They should’ve shown us the vote because I wanna know what Jean and Emma voted.

  8. #38
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Because they don’t like Mandy I assume. They should’ve shown us the vote because I wanna know what Jean and Emma voted.
    I originally thought Jean voted no but maybe it was yes. She's been shown to argue for Maddie's life in the past


  9. #39
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Even thats changed as she was originally colored with hazel eyes in her earliest X-men appearances





    the colorist even colored the same here, probably bc he figured as a clone (before her origin mini was dropped) they should be identical
    Multiple eye color syndrome strikes again.
    "Theory: The Phoenix doesn't corrupt the characters, it corrupts the authors." Gambit, King of Thieves

  10. #40
    Ultimate Member Ambaryerno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Even thats changed as she was originally colored with hazel eyes in her earliest X-men appearances





    the colorist even colored the same here, probably bc he figured as a clone (before her origin mini was dropped) they should be identical
    That was literally the only scene of NXM her eyes were brown. Every subsequent appearance they were green (also, Logan's eyes are BLUE so there's frankly nothing to read into this panel). And her eyes were green in most of NYX when she first appeared. It can be hard to tell in some panels because of the muted color palette, and a lot of her scenes (especially in her first few panels) have sort of an overall sepia wash, but it's there.

    And her brown eyes in Claremont's run of Uncanny are just as irrelevant as the REST of what Claremont did with her. Maybe once in a blue moon there will be a nod to her wearing the Fang suit, but otherwise Uncanny has been virtually ignored.
    Still hoping for that Helix Reunion...

    The New X-Men: Can't let you grow up because you make everyone look old. But we can sure as @#$% mindlessly kill you off for shock value!

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  11. #41
    Amazing Member Synch340's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambaryerno View Post
    Zelda and the other Sisters weren't mutants, so it's highly doubtful they'd be resurrected. Gabby is the only one who developed the X Gene.



    Even Laura's own origin story by Kyle and Yost established she's not a true clone.
    I thought the nannites in Bellona and Gabby were turned off so they have their mutant abilities now. Zelda died right after it was turned off.

  12. #42
    Ultimate Member Ambaryerno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synch340 View Post
    I thought the nannites in Bellona and Gabby were turned off so they have their mutant abilities now. Zelda died right after it was turned off.
    We don't know the status of Bellona's nanites after Kimura got hold of her, but her claws were artificial implants so they could frame Laura for massacring the town she and Gabby were hiding out in at the beginning of EotSII. She's at no point been indicated to have a healing factor, natural or otherwise.

    Gabby's nanites have never been turned off, (it's been a plot point a couple of times) and she developed her healing factor and claws in spite of them. The other Sisters hid Gabby's mutation from Alchemax to protect her so they never learned about it. PRESUMABLY her healing factor keeps the nanites from killing her, though whether they will have an accumulative effect over time (like adamantium poisoning often does for Logan in various AU continuities) is unclear.
    Still hoping for that Helix Reunion...

    The New X-Men: Can't let you grow up because you make everyone look old. But we can sure as @#$% mindlessly kill you off for shock value!

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  13. #43
    Incredible Member Micabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dthirds3 View Post
    It wasn't a plot hole, they said they wanted laura being carried to term by Sarah to influence he apperance via mitochondria transfer via the ambilical cord.

    Sarah with her daughter

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