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  1. #16
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    It scattered whole armies into flight, as far as it goes.

    I suppose anything you feel could resist that sort of thing and provide a rationale for why?

  2. #17
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    It scattered whole armies into flight, as far as it goes.

    I suppose anything you feel could resist that sort of thing and provide a rationale for why?
    That doesn't exactly help me establish a threshold.

    Who did it not work on in canon? I'm assuming that Gothmog or whatever didn't just piss themselves and run away. What's my floor here?
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  3. #18
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    That doesn't exactly help me establish a threshold.

    Who did it not work on in canon? I'm assuming that Gothmog or whatever didn't just piss themselves and run away. What's my floor here?
    No one with a big name was in its way if that helps? Though then again Morgoth had to work himself up into going out to fight him.

    Soo, hm.

  4. #19
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    No one with a big name was in its way if that helps? Though then again Morgoth had to work himself up into going out to fight him.

    Soo, hm.
    Okay, so...

    What's my list?

    I can't speak for Buffy and Scoobies or the Assassins because I haven't touched either franchise in like a decade.

    The Baki crew, Yurjiro has feats of intimidating entire crowds of people based on his sheer presence, people pissing themselves etc. and they stand up just fine.

    The live action wuxia crew... by and large they are all mentally strong and capable warriors of reknown so... I could see them being above something that impacts the rank and file but not named people? But that's more based on presentation than actual feats.

    The Hashira literally battle demons who are instinctively terrifying to humans as their job, I imagine they'd be okay/able to get past it.

    The Hi Shin Unit, well the 5,000 odd dudes might break. Shin and Kyoukai are highly accomplished warriors who've stared down and fought dudes who break morale super hard without breaking so I would see them not being susceptible. There are other named dudes in the Hi Shin Unit who might have a case for it but I'd be dubious about making that case. They've certainly never encountered anything openly supernatural like it before.

    The Avengers. I mean, they're the Avengers. I don't imagine Thor, Hulk or Cap breaking and running?

    Strawhats... Sanji, Zoro and Luffy should be fine. They've got intense mental fortitude and so on, Luffy will go on to being able to drop 10,000 people into unconsciousness just through his force of personality so I don't think he'll have an issue. Nami, Ussop and Chopper, less so.
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  5. #20
    Prince of Duckness Beadle's Avatar
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    Hulk (not Banner, Hulk itself) has history of hiding from things that it finds scary, like Thanos. And Thanos doesn’t have any sort of fear aura. Plus both Hulk and Thor were shown to be vulnerable to mental/emotional jiggeryfuckery by Scarlet Witch.

    So magical effects could do something.

    Tony doesn’t have the same un-feats(?... anti-feats...?), but I see no reason for him to be any less vulnerable than Thor to that kind of shizzle.

  6. #21
    The Tentacle God Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh's Avatar
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    I'd say that Melkor having to actually like... convince himself to go fight Fingolfin because even he was bothered by the fear aura, might make it somewhat believable that most of the people here would be hard-pressed to resist it?

    It was so powerful Melkor was aware of it within Angband as well so it covers a fairly large area too I'd assume.
    Yeah, but if you... man, we're getting into weird analogy territory, like if you disintegrated Superman's arms he wouldn't be able to go "fool! Little did you know that my arms and I are one and can be remade from me!" and will his arms back into being from pure nothingness. - Pendaran

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  7. #22
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    I am by no means an expert, but I always thought that Melkor's fear was more fear of getting his ass kicked than any kind of effect from the aura, but again, I'm not an expert.

    People like the Avengers are used to launching themselves into suicidal, despair-loaded situations and blasting right on through them. Tony suicide-missionned in both Avengers 1 and 2, also in IM 1, the fact that he survived was luck not skill,really. He did it to stop the bad guys and was instantly ready to sacrifice himself to save the planet twice and his girlfriend once. He ALMOST suicided twice in IM2, though those, he may have expected to survive. And of course he flew up to the one-way-trip in Infinity War without a second thought to save all of a dude he didn't like, whether or not that saved the universe as well. Fear would have been intrinsic in each situation and he ignored it. Thor... let Ultron pound on his face just to delay the guy. Subjected himself to levels of energy that were almost sure to kill him to forge an axe. Sacrificed his home planet to stop his sister. Threw himself repeatedly against his sister despite knowing that he couldn't beat her to give his people time to escape. Hell, not that Hawkeye is SUPER useful here (though explosive arrows would at least annoy everyone on the gank squad - they aren't just no-selling them), but the dude challenged hordes of killer robots on a one-way trip to death in the sky with a bow and arrow and had time to give a pep talk to a much more powerful ally that brought her back into the fight to some extent. Avengers ignoring fear and hopeless situations is kind of their biggest trait. The fear aura would have to be ludicrous for it to be a thing that they couldn't power through. Scaring a mook into inactivity isn't the same thing as scaring a hero with demonstrated feats of ignoring fear with a laugh into inactivity.

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  8. #23
    Incredible Member Harbinger19's Avatar
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    “That was the last time in those wars that [Morgoth] passed the doors of his stronghold, and it is said that he took not the challenge willingly; for though his might was greatest of all things in this world, alone of the Valar he knew fear. But he could not now deny the challenge before the face of his captains; for the rocks rang with the shrill music of Fingolfin’s horn, and his voice came keen and clear down into the depths of Angband; and Fingolfin named Morgoth craven and lord of slaves. Therefore Morgoth came...” (Silmarillion 2E, 153)

    Poor Morgoth had absolutely no desire to fight Fingolfin, but had no choice as he would have looked like a poser had he not.

    Incidentally I’m pleased the Gank Squad has proven so inspirational to the Rumbles community.
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  9. #24
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Anyone got an extract of the fear aura in effect? Because the below;

    Quote Originally Posted by Harbinger19 View Post
    “That was the last time in those wars that [Morgoth] passed the doors of his stronghold, and it is said that he took not the challenge willingly; for though his might was greatest of all things in this world, alone of the Valar he knew fear. But he could not now deny the challenge before the face of his captains; for the rocks rang with the shrill music of Fingolfin’s horn, and his voice came keen and clear down into the depths of Angband; and Fingolfin named Morgoth craven and lord of slaves. Therefore Morgoth came...” (Silmarillion 2E, 153)

    Poor Morgoth had absolutely no desire to fight Fingolfin, but had no choice as he would have looked like a poser had he not.

    Incidentally I’m pleased the Gank Squad has proven so inspirational to the Rumbles community.
    ...just reads as Morgoth recognising that Fingolfin might kick his ass more than a supernatural power. Obviously, there may well be context that I am unfamiliar with but I'm struggling to get a grip on how potent this thing is.

    Putting aside the fear aura for a moment, what are we looking at in stat terms for the Gank Squad? Strength, speed, etc.
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  10. #25
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    Anyone got an extract of the fear aura in effect? Because the below;



    ...just reads as Morgoth recognising that Fingolfin might kick his ass more than a supernatural power. Obviously, there may well be context that I am unfamiliar with but I'm struggling to get a grip on how potent this thing is.

    Putting aside the fear aura for a moment, what are we looking at in stat terms for the Gank Squad? Strength, speed, etc.
    For that last bit, Tolkein in general didn't write in a way that is awesome for Rumbles-style feats. Lots of "killed an army of goblins or whatever by himself" stuff without really explaining how that happened. None of them are bullet-timers or anything by feats. None of them have skin that simply bounces good steel, but the "powerful" ones seem to be able to resist magic forces at a much higher level then simple martial forces. They are crazy skilled warriors given that they can fight off hundreds on their own, but how would that compare to, say, Daredevil or Batman by pure skill? Hard to say. The best of them have great armor which WILL bounce steel, magic swords which will cut steel and stone. Tolkein wrote by "so-and-so is a great power" (I'm looking at you, Aragorn) without always really explaining exactly what that power was. The Valar were pretty godly - their fights screwed up continents and such and therefore they didn't wanna fight anymore. Of course, what accounts as the world during the first age and what it became are canonically very different. Morgoth shouldn't really have had to be afraid of Fingolfin - he survived beatings by Tulkas - but he was... and that seems kind of a literary construct more than anything born out by feats that would apply on Rumbles.

    EDIT: A really classic example here is Gandalf. Up until the Balrog fight, Gandalf the Grey... made some sparks fly, summoned a magic-ish horse and persuaded him to help, camouflaged himself a little, asked friends to help, and projected maybe a bit of an aura that was maybe intimidating or something? He mostly was really smart and wise and good at research. Then he fights the Balrog, a thing that scared the trousers off everyone present, and the fight goes on for days of falling and smashes up part of a mountain and at the end, Balrog dies and Gandalf gets a Zenkai... for completely unexplained and basically un-referenced reasons. It's great literature but shockingly not written in a format that helps all that perfectly for Rumbles. How could Tolkein have ignored us like that?

    Again, Sharp's much-referenced catch phrase applies here.
    Last edited by big_adventure; 09-26-2020 at 03:04 AM.
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    ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops."
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    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics." -Captain Morgan

  11. #26
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    The Matches

    Match 1) All main characters from all Assassin's Creed games. So, oh god, that would be... Altair, Ezio, Conner, Edward, Jacob and Evy, Cassandra and... her less interesting brother, Egyptian guy which I never played, whoever the main character in Unity was. I think there was that lady from the spin-off from ACIII, right? They have all their max level gear, barring any pieces of Eden or other obviously supernatural stuff.

    Match 2) Buffy and the Scoobies + Spike and Angel from Buffy the Vampire Slayer. No Dark Willow.

    Match 3) Jin and Mei from House of Flying Daggers, Huo Yuan-jia from Fearless, Wong Fei Hung and General Fujita from Fist of Legend, Coolie, Tailor and Donut from Kung Fu Hustle, Rama, Assassin and Mad Dog from The Raid, non-stacked Composite Ip Man from live action films, Tiger, Turbo and Dragon from the Tiger Dragon Gate live action film, Liu Mu Bai, Shu Lien and Jen from Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon and Flying Snow, Broken Sword, Sky and Nameless from Hero

    Match 4) Baki Hanma, Hanayama Karou, Doppo Orochi, Jack Hammer, Retsu Kaioh, Katsumi Orochi, Biscuit Oliva, Miyamoto Musashi and Sukune from Grappler Baki. (Noticed I've been very inconsistent with first name and last name placement in this list.)

    Match 5) The Hashira from Kimetsu no Yaiba at full strength. Rengoku is alive.

    Match 6) The Hi Shin unit (Current 5000 man version) from Kingdom. Kyoukai is at her peak, Shin has Ouki's glaive.

    Match 7) The MCU Avengers circa the first Avengers film.

    Match 8) The Straw Hat Pirates from One Piece circa the Alabasta Arc.

    How far do they get?
    I don't know enough about many of these characters.

    Let's see...what are the important points?

    1. As noted by Pendaran, Fingolfin's aura basically made an entire army crap itself and GTFO of his way. Even if people manage to stay in the fight (and I'm going to say that if trapped in an arena and forced to fight, they're going to do so, why not?) it's going to severely impact their capacity.

    2. Húrin is a guy who, solo, has an army thrown at him and basically kills them as fast as they come. Worse, there comes a point where the army says 'screw this, kill this guy' and sends in Gothmog's 'elite troll bodyguard' (so, heavily armed and armored trolls). Húrin gives no shits and proceeds to murder seventy-odd of Gothmog's elite troll unit (the number is pretty nailed down in the text) with an axe that is literally melting while he doe so due to the corrosive nature of troll-blood (presumably also splashed all over Húrin but, again, he gives no shits). Morgoth notes this and says 'Oh, that's Húrin, take him alive' (likely to the despair of his generals). They throw 'countless' orcs at him in a suicidal charge to drag him down, and eventually do, and even at that point he's hacking off their arms and legs.

    Húrin isn't the top tier in this mess of insane fighters. He's better than many, but not all of them.

    We have Fingolfin here who, dressed in full armor, leaps around like a sparrow to avoid the explosions created by Morgoth swinging around Grond, said explosions causing huge craters that bubble with magma. He also ends up with Morgoth putting his foot on Fingolfin's neck and pressing down with 'the weight of a mountain' (could be some artistic exaggeration there, but you're getting the idea) and Fingolfin living through that long enough to half-hack-off Morgoth's foot.

    We have Fëanor, who fights alone, completely surrounded by multiple Balrogs and wreathed in their fire, and he survives long enough (it even notes something like 'Long he fought, wreathed in their flames' or the like) for his sons to start up a desperate charge (same sons listed in the gank squad) that drives them through an entire army and forces off the Balrogs. The lunatic then dies, his body basically overloading more from the stress his burning spirit puts on it than the injuries.

    Finrod - dehydrated, starved, magically smooshed by Sauron, and naked - busts out of heavy chains and kills a werewolf, likely with his own teeth. He also engages in an extended magical duel with Sauron without immediately folding.

    That's basically the big names. Everyone else is 'as a group drives off a bunch of Balrogs', 'engages in extended solo guerilla warfare for years against everything Sauron has to throw at him and, oh yes, beats the shit out of Sons of Fëanor with his bare hands', 'piles up heavily armed and armored dwarves before being taken down', 'carries a sword that will basically ignore any non-magical armor out there' x 2, etc. One thing to remember is that this is a pretty large group - sixteen of these First Age warriors.

    One issue is speed.

    As noted by big, we don't have a lot of 'Rumbles-style' feats, especially from the Silmarillion, which is mostly written like a history book, if a very engaging one. So, going strictly by Rumbles' rules, it makes the characters very hard to pin down.

    However, if we want to squint a little and give a little flexibility here, there's a place in Lord of the Rings where Legolas draws and nocks an arrow to his bow faster than anyone's eyes can follow. It's in the scene where Éomer meets up with Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas for the first time. It's worth noting that at least three of the people here other than Legolas are top-tier fighters who murder their way through enemies at the front of armies without taking injury, or personally kill fifty-odd people during a siege while taking a scratch-wound on their forehead.

    None of them see his hands move.

    Legolas is dirt compared to everyone in the gank squad.

    Make of that what you will.

    Sooo...

    1. Don't know enough about Assassin's Creed, but based on the one game I played (Syndicate), Evie Fry and her brother don't stand ANY chance here.
    2. There's some argument for speed with regards to Buffy, Spike and Angel (it's nebulous, though, as is the speed of the Gank Squad), but the scoobies are nothing here and frankly, even with the debatable speed thing going on most of the Gank Squad is wearing pretty heavy First Age armor. I think the Buffy side loses to the side with the heavy armor, the 'magical weapons', the massive fear aura, the feats for murdering large chunks of armies, etc.
    3. Some of these people are not worth a lot in this fight. Others are grossly more powerful. I think the lack of armor hurts, but otherwise there are certainly people here taking the fight to the Gank Squad. Look at the central character for Hero, for example: taking his stories at face value, he deflects arrows and arrows loosed by an army, and slices through the cords binding every scroll in a library within 20' of him in the time it takes to lightly toss a teacup into the air and then catch it.

    The issue boils down to the fear aura.

    4. I try not to think about Baki. I'm sure some of the Baki people here get wasted. I'm unsure about others; the feats in Baki are weird and all over the place, but certainly pretty strong. Musashi and Baki, themselves, are ridiculous, and Musashi is certainly presented as a dude who would basically kill an army.
    5. I kind of stopped reading this after a while, but the power-creep got pretty insane, didn't it?
    6. Most of the Hi Shin unit isn't going to do so hot with the fear aura hitting them. Kyoukai, I feel, is the only one who is going to be trouble, and I'm unsure of how well she will fight facing Fingolfin in Rage Mode™. Shin is not an issue, as he'll be bum-rushed by a bunch of people who are easily good enough to fight him.
    7. The fear aura becomes the only real impediment to the Avengers winning this, and I figure they'll manage.
    8. Even from the little I know of One Piece, this is a bridge WAAAAY too far.

    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    I am by no means an expert, but I always thought that Melkor's fear was more fear of getting his ass kicked than any kind of effect from the aura, but again, I'm not an expert.
    This. Morgoth was basically a giant coward and didn't actually want to fight.

    He's on the list of 'Powerful but really pathetic' villains.
    Last edited by Sharpandpointies; 09-28-2020 at 06:00 AM.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  12. #27
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    ...also, smart money has Beleg tossing his sword to Túrin's dad at the start of every match. He's going to be loosing arrows, anyway.

    Húrin clearly doesn't NEED Anguirel, but whoo, boy.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  13. #28
    The Tentacle God Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    The lunatic then dies, his body basically overloading more from the stress his burning spirit puts on it than the injuries.
    So a man so angry it literally killed him.
    Yeah, but if you... man, we're getting into weird analogy territory, like if you disintegrated Superman's arms he wouldn't be able to go "fool! Little did you know that my arms and I are one and can be remade from me!" and will his arms back into being from pure nothingness. - Pendaran

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  14. #29
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh View Post
    So a man so angry it literally killed him.
    It's an apt assessment. Pendaran sometimes likens it to an overheated battlemech, which is also not a poor comparison. ^_^

    Dude was an absolutely murderous loon, his serious issues coupled with nothing we would recognize as 'morality'.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  15. #30
    The Tentacle God Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    It's an apt assessment. Pendaran sometimes likens it to an overheated battlemech, which is also not a poor comparison. ^_^

    Dude was an absolutely murderous loon, his serious issues coupled with nothing we would recognize as 'morality'.
    I've forgotten a lot about the Silmarillion since I've last read it. Fëanor, the First Age Battlemech is probably enough to get me back into it.
    Yeah, but if you... man, we're getting into weird analogy territory, like if you disintegrated Superman's arms he wouldn't be able to go "fool! Little did you know that my arms and I are one and can be remade from me!" and will his arms back into being from pure nothingness. - Pendaran

    Arxiros "Arx" Inosaan | Inanna

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