[SPOILERS] So Disappointed at WW84:Should There Be A Director Change for Part 3?

[Titan Theo]

WW was good, not exceptional.

WW 2 is a disappointment in so many levels, plots, CGI, story, even for suspension of disbelief...I can't possibly imagine this film WW gaining more fan base that what she already has. Others liked it, but for sure, the reviews in this movie is anything but consistent. Patty Jenkins is not a bad director, but even the best of them can make blunders.

I want a WW that has above average fight scenes (like in their animation, that kicks arse), knows how to hold her lasso, and does not look like she has over the top golden noodle hanging in her hand. Even the regular amazons held it better. What a disappointment. However, I did like Lynda Carter's appearance. Best part of the movie is young Diana and old WW in their respective appearances.


Get Ang Lee to direct the story
Get Yoo Wen Ping direct the action scenes
and for Hera's sake, get better CGI effects.

I'm almost looking forward to how Diana will be portrayed in Zack's extended version of Justice League, even though I also had issues with the replacement director.

[Awonder]

Patty Jenkins is still my first choice even though I don't love WW84. A new director might bring a breath of fresh air; then again, a new director could make things much worse. Overall, Jenkins has done a wonderful job with Diana herself, and that's the most important piece.

Get Ang Lee to direct the story.

Have you seen his Hulk movie?

I agree that DC/WB does need to up their game in the action and cgi department. Nice visuals go a long way.

[Titan Theo]

Patty Jenkins is still my first choice even though I don't love WW84. A new director might bring a breath of fresh air; then again, a new director could make things much worse. Overall, Jenkins has done a wonderful job with Diana herself, and that's the most important piece.



Have you seen his Hulk movie?

I agree that DC/WB does need to up their game in the action and cgi department. Nice visuals go a long way.

Have you seen his Hulk movie?

Yes, I have, but have you also seen Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon? Which involves both directors Ang Lee and Mr. Ping? Awards Galore. This is why I suggested a different director for CGI, because that's not his forte as much as Patty's is. I can seriously just take a bunch of WW moves from DC animation that is 100 x better than what we have seen in both WW's films.

and they seriously need to make that lasso glow less, so tacky and cartoonish. It's a Golden Lasso, not a glowing lasso.


I agree that DC/WB does need to up their game in the action and cgi department. Nice visuals go a long way.[/QUOTE]

[Robanker]

Have you seen his Hulk movie?

Yes, I have, but have you also seen Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon? Which involves both directors Ang Lee and Mr. Ping? Awards Galore. This is why I suggested a different director for CGI, because that's not his forte as much as Patty's is. I can seriously just take a bunch of WW moves from DC animation that is 100 x better than what we have seen in both WW's films.

and they seriously need to make that lasso glow less, so tacky and cartoonish. It's a Golden Lasso, not a glowing lasso.


I agree that DC/WB does need to up their game in the action and cgi department. Nice visuals go a long way.

I love the glowing lasso. Take that away and it's just an expensive rope visually.

[Stanlos]

Well, I think by now DC Fans are painfully aware that the DCEU approach was not going to provide a joyful adaptation of iconic DC stories. Rather, the primary driver is the filmmaker/director. So Party seemed to be on this I love the body swap movies and I want to do something from the 80s and I want to pay homage to Lynda Carter. And the characters' cast and story are very not even secondary (so no Philippus, Niobe, Venelia, Menalippe, or others in any meaningful way but if you like Robin Wright you can be happy about her Antiope being there).

So similar to BVS we get a bunch of stuff that could be its own movie or movies crammed into the film. The film basically mashes together Duke Of Deception, Max Lord, and Cheetah in a way that doesn't really adapt them so much as borrows bits. There are basically nods to the comics like Max and his nosebleeds from using his powers.

So I just took the approach of looking for stuff I could enjoy. I liked seeing the Lasso used in creative ways like it was used Pre-Crisis. I liked Zimmer scoring. I liked the dramatic performances. I liked that Diana gets her flight finally. I liked the homage to Carter. I liked the cameo. I liked the cheese in the mall sequence (that little girl And her mom were adorbs).

And there was obvious joy in the action scenes.

This isn't Marvel so it is what it is. Hopefully this will be the last DCEU bit produced by Geoff Johns and based on his 52 stuff and maybe there will be some improvements. It is what it is. And let's face it--it could be worse.

[Myskin]

On a slightly different note, how come that they didn't even try to follow ANYTHING of the source material? I mean, except for some specific aesthetic elements (golden armor etc) there isn't much from the comic book.
Zack Snyder is strongly criticized for a lot of good reasons, and one of them is that he changes important features of the original characters into something different - and possibly worse. Well, Jenkins has basically done the same here.
It's not that there is a huge deal of good Wonder Woman stories, but there are a couple of good and well-recognized runs which would have provided an excellent source for a lot of elements which Jenkins used. Instead it's as if she had mixed some details from classic Disney movies - Freaky Friday etc. - with ideas from 1980s action movies and had created an overcomplicated version of The Monkey's Paw merged with Jerry Zucker's Ghost. Why?
I mean, it's not that I want a movie 100% faithful to the source material, but Greg Rucka and other writers provided an interesting update of Barbara Minerva which would have surely worked better than the Nth version of "nerdish insecure character who becomes malevolent for forced reasons". More than a movie which takes place in the 1980s it seems like a movie which was made in the 1980s, when directors and producers didn't trust the source material and felt the need to change it.

[Agent Z]

Can't believe the hot take of "Wonder Woman doesn't have many good stories" is still being taken seriously.

Anyway, the movie wasn't perfect and there were some issues that could and should have been handled better. But it isn't anywhere near the disaster some people are calling it.

[Agent Z]

On a slightly different note, how come that they didn't even try to follow ANYTHING of the source material? I mean, except for some specific aesthetic elements (golden armor etc) there isn't much from the comic book.
Zack Snyder is strongly criticized for a lot of good reasons, and one of them is that he changes important features of the original characters into something different - and possibly worse. Well, Jenkins has basically done the same here.
It's not that there is a huge deal of good Wonder Woman stories, but there are a couple of good and well-recognized runs which would have provided an excellent source for a lot of elements which Jenkins used. Instead it's as if she had mixed some details from classic Disney movies - Freaky Friday etc. - with ideas from 1980s action movies and had created an overcomplicated version of The Monkey's Paw merged with Jerry Zucker's Ghost. Why?
I mean, it's not that I want a movie 100% faithful to the source material, but Greg Rucka and other writers provided an interesting update of Barbara Minerva which would have surely worked better than the Nth version of "nerdish insecure character who becomes malevolent for forced reasons". More than a movie which takes place in the 1980s it seems like a movie which was made in the 1980s, when directors and producers didn't trust the source material and felt the need to change it.

Cheetah's depiction in this movie is plenty close to what Rucka did with her albeit streamlined for a movie. Granted, I would have liked the original depiction of Barbara Minerva which was an evil take on the adventure archaeologist archetype but this one works for what it is.

The irony of you criticizing Snyder and Jenkins for changing "important" traits of the characters they adapt is that this is what the comics do all the time and Rucka is no exception. Fans are incredibly selective when it comes to what they consider important traits. If they like it, it's either true to the source material or an improvement. If they don't, it's a blight on the world.

[Geraldofrivia]

Yes, yes, yes

[Myskin]

The irony of you criticizing Snyder and Jenkins for changing "important" traits of the characters they adapt is that this is what the comics do all the time and Rucka is no exception. Fans are incredibly selective when it comes to what they consider important traits. If they like it, it's either true to the source material or an improvement. If they don't, it's a blight on the world.

Oh, personally speaking the adherence to the original material is not even in the top ten of the reasons I criticize Snyder or Jenkins. I criticize Jenkins mostly because she makes awkward narrative choices and I think she is rather overrated, and I criticize Snyder because his movies are awful.

[Agent Z]

Oh, personally speaking the adherence to the original material is not even in the top ten of the reasons I criticize Snyder or Jenkins. I criticize Jenkins mostly because she makes awkward narrative choices and I think she is rather overrated, and I criticize Snyder because his movies are awful.

Well that wasn't what your original comment was based on but whatever. Agree to disagree.

[Myskin]

Well that wasn't what your original comment was based on but whatever. Agree to disagree.

Actually it was:

Zack Snyder is strongly criticized for a lot of good reasons, and one of them
I mean, it's not that I want a movie 100% faithful to the source material

The point is not that the Snyder's movies are bad, or WW 1984 is a mess, because they are not faithful to source material. They are what they are because they change the source material without providing any interesting alternative to it. If they had wholly recreated Barbara Minerva by giving her something compelling to do which did not resemble a cliché which we have already seen in at least 3 DC/Marvel movies before the result would have been better. Zemo from Captain America: Civil War does not resemble at all his comic counterpart, but he is an interesting villain - or at least more interesting than WW84's Cheetah - because he has an interesting arc and the actor is pretty good.

[Agent Z]

And as I said, Cheetah isn't that different from her comic counterpart. More specifically, the rebirth version. Being similar to other villains isn't a flaw. There's nothing new under the sun and I think Cheetah was executed well.

[Steel Inquisitor]

On a slightly different note, how come that they didn't even try to follow ANYTHING of the source material? I mean, except for some specific aesthetic elements (golden armor etc) there isn't much from the comic book.
Zack Snyder is strongly criticized for a lot of good reasons, and one of them is that he changes important features of the original characters into something different - and possibly worse. Well, Jenkins has basically done the same here.
It's not that there is a huge deal of good Wonder Woman stories, but there are a couple of good and well-recognized runs which would have provided an excellent source for a lot of elements which Jenkins used. Instead it's as if she had mixed some details from classic Disney movies - Freaky Friday etc. - with ideas from 1980s action movies and had created an overcomplicated version of The Monkey's Paw merged with Jerry Zucker's Ghost. Why?
I mean, it's not that I want a movie 100% faithful to the source material, but Greg Rucka and other writers provided an interesting update of Barbara Minerva which would have surely worked better than the Nth version of "nerdish insecure character who becomes malevolent for forced reasons". More than a movie which takes place in the 1980s it seems like a movie which was made in the 1980s, when directors and producers didn't trust the source material and felt the need to change it.

They did.

spoilers:

The ending is how Diana stopped Ares in "Gods and Monsters." Maxwell Lord is changed but hits the same broad strokes from the comics. They merge his villainous and hero selves, but focus more on the villainous side. Cheetah/Minerva has bits from Perez and Rucka, they even kept the unresolved sexual tension with her and Diana. They may have altered her into a mousy nerd but they got the characterization down. It was classic selfish jerk Cheetah. The Duke of Deception was name dropped as the god responsible for making the magical plot device. Wonder Woman flew and has her Invisible Plane.

end of spoilers

The story and tone is classic Wonder Woman. You could put it into a story arc or annual without changing much and it'd fit right in with the mythos.

[Myskin]

They did.

spoilers:

The ending is how Diana stopped Ares in "Gods and Monsters." Maxwell Lord is changed but hits the same broad strokes from the comics. They merge his villainous and hero selves, but focus more on the villainous side. Cheetah/Minerva has bits from Perez and Rucka, they even kept the unresolved sexual tension with her and Diana. They may have altered her into a mousy nerd but they got the characterization down. It was classic selfish jerk Cheetah. The Duke of Deception was name dropped as the god responsible for making the magical plot device. Wonder Woman flew and has her Invisible Plane.

end of spoilers

The story and tone is classic Wonder Woman. You could put it into a story arc or annual without changing much and it'd fit right in with the mythos.

Let's agree to disagree, because most of what you referred to look like throwaway references to me, more or less like the Ace of Clubs in Superman Returns. Except for the Invisible Plane, now that I think about it.
The body swap, the magical desire stuff, this specific version of Lord - who, as far as I remember - never had this type of power in the comics - the 1980s all make me think that the influence of Superman II, the Lynda Carter TV series, some Disney movies and - bizarrely - Batman Forever is way stronger than any comic book source material.