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  1. #61
    Extraordinary Member Cyke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lapsus View Post
    I have discussed this a lot in this forum, for me the problems always comes down to the baggage the mutants have, baggage that real-life minorities dont have.

    The mutant concept would never be realistically solved without the X-Men eventually compromise their ideology and accepting that there has to be a form of control for them. The second problem is what Killerbee911 said, other superpeople would have to face the same form of control. The large Marvel Universe didnt follow the mutant narrative and has never try to establish cohesion between different series.

    I understand why they did that, they want to give writers a lot of freedom and not be dragged by other books themes, at the same time too much freedom has leads to problems and unnecessary retcons. I think the universe and the global narrative would benefit with some common structures in the setting.
    This isn't to say Marvel handled it perfectly but your point reminds me that canonically, the Superhero Registration Act at the center of Civil War was modeled after the Mutant Registration Act, and that's why several non-mutant supers were against it. Marvel really could stand to further develop that connection if it cared about the analogy.

  2. #62
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    The X-Men should not be a 1:1 metaphor for this, or anything; to force them into that paradigm alone would minimize them.
    I agree… It’s what interested me: the X-men were individuals, characters not representants of anything… They were likable people and anyone could use them as models and you didn’t need to feel as an outcast to appreciate them. They brought people together.

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantor View Post
    Have you ever thought maybe they should be a 1:1 metaphor? That the X-men should be a cast of ONLY minorities lgtbq and other characters so that when they say the world fears and hates them it’s a 100% accurate statement? Or this that to “woke” for you and you won’t like the books anyone unless there are pretty white people as the leads?
    I can't help but giggle as you clearly don't know much about BroHomo.

    I, a gay man of color, wouldn't want the cast to be only minorities/queer. I love all the X-Men, all the mutants, and I want to read about as many of them as possible.
    Boop! Krakoa forever!

  4. #64
    Spectacular Member gonnagiveittoya's Avatar
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    I mean if they were all 100% gay having the mutants be a metaphor would be pointless since they literally wouldnt need to be.

  5. #65
    Incredible Member Kingdom X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonnagiveittoya View Post
    I mean if they were all 100% gay having the mutants be a metaphor would be pointless since they literally wouldnt need to be.
    The franchise can do wayyyy better before they get anywhere near 100% minority and LGBTQ+ characters.

  6. #66
    Militantly Indifferent Kisinith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantor View Post
    Have you ever thought maybe they should be a 1:1 metaphor? That the X-men should be a cast of ONLY minorities lgtbq and other characters so that when they say the world fears and hates them it’s a 100% accurate statement? Or this that to “woke” for you and you won’t like the books anyone unless there are pretty white people as the leads?
    No. Why should the X-Men have to change what and who they are, what and who they have almost always been just to fit your preconceived notions of what they should be?

    Also
    Quote Originally Posted by Merriam-Webster
    al·le·go·ry
    1. the expression by means of symbolic fictional figures and actions of truths or generalizations about human existence
    2. a symbolic representation
    Allegory is a more or less symbolic fictional narrative that conveys a secondary meaning (or meanings) not explicitly set forth in the literal narrative. Parables, myths, and fables are all considered types of allegories.
    Last edited by Kisinith; 09-28-2020 at 01:22 PM.

  7. #67
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantor View Post
    Have you ever thought maybe they should be a 1:1 metaphor? That the X-men should be a cast of ONLY minorities lgtbq and other characters so that when they say the world fears and hates them it’s a 100% accurate statement? Or this that to “woke” for you and you won’t like the books anyone unless there are pretty white people as the leads?
    No cuz this is yankee nonsense.
    "Cable was right!"

  8. #68
    Spectacular Member gonnagiveittoya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    The franchise can do wayyyy better before they get anywhere near 100% minority and LGBTQ+ characters.
    Oh no I agree, I'm just arguing against the "1:1 metaphor" point

  9. #69
    Astonishing Member babyblob's Avatar
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    I am glad I started this thread. I didnt know there were others like it so soryy about that.

    But I say I am glad because I am seeing a lot of really good viewpoints. I am really enjoying reading this.
    Thanks to all who have replied and thanks for keeping things civil.

    For me as a gay man I knew everyone said oh you will love the Xmen they are a metaphor for your struggle. And while I do enjoy the Xmen, mostly the early stuff like 60's and 70s's havnt read too much beyond that. They didnt really speak to me as a gay man. None of the characters were gay. So I didnt see how they really fit as a metaphor for my struggle. I wouldnt understand what a mutant goes through because I am not a mutant just as I dont know what a black man goes through because I am not black.

    And I always though the who hatred of Mutants was a bit goofy is the word I will use for the lack of a better term. I say this because the biggest problem people seemed to have with mutants is that they had powers. But there were soo many people in the Marvel universe who had power and everyone was fine with them. So to me it seemed like everyone was trying to force the discrimination metaphor down my throat. I mean why is Colossus so much more feared and hated then some one like Thor who it seems main stream America would have more of a reason to hate and The Hulk who people would have more reason to fear.

    Those are just my two cents.
    Last edited by babyblob; 09-28-2020 at 01:45 PM.
    Favorite teams. Alpha Flight, Avengers, Fantastic Four, West Coast Avengers, Justice Society of America, Legion of Superheroes.

  10. #70
    Incredible Member Kingdom X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    I am glad I started this thread. I didnt know there were others like it so soryy about that.

    But I say I am glad because I am seeing a lot of really good viewpoints. I am really enjoying reading this.
    Thanks to all who have replied and thanks for keeping things civil.

    For me as a gay man I knew everyone said oh you will love the Xmen they are a metaphor for your struggle. And while I do enjoy the Xmen, mostly the early stuff like 60's and 70s's havnt read too much beyond that. They didnt really speak to me as a gay man. None of the characters were gay. So I didnt see how they really fit as a metaphor for my struggle. I wouldnt understand what a mutant goes through because I am not a mutant just as I dont know what a black man goes through because I am not black.

    And I always though the who hatred of Mutants was a bit goofy is the word I will use for the lack of a better term. I say this because the biggest problem people seemed to have with mutants is that they had powers. But there were soo many people in the Marvel universe who had power and everyone was fine with them. So to me it seemed like everyone was trying to force the discrimination metaphor down my throat. I mean why is Colossus so much more feared and hated then some one like Thor who it seems main stream America would have more of a reason to hate and The Hulk who people would have more reason to fear.

    Those are just my two cents.
    Thanks for making the thread! The X-Men spoke to me a lot more when I was younger and hadn’t actually experienced a lot of discrimination. I’m a big advocate of the franchise practicing what it preaches and highlighting it’s minority and LGBTQ characters. I think we’re starting to move past the days of Storm being the one token character in use, but more work can still be done.

  11. #71
    Extraordinary Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantor View Post
    Have you ever thought maybe they should be a 1:1 metaphor? That the X-men should be a cast of ONLY minorities lgtbq and other characters so that when they say the world fears and hates them it’s a 100% accurate statement?
    Damn Dude why it gotta be 100% accurate? lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantor View Post
    Or this that to “woke” for you and you won’t like the books anyone unless there are pretty white people as the leads?
    Uh what?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jbenito View Post
    I can't help but giggle as you clearly don't know much about BroHomo.
    I mean it's in my fvcking name

    Quote Originally Posted by Jbenito View Post
    I, a gay man of color, wouldn't want the cast to be only minorities/queer. I love all the X-Men, all the mutants, and I want to read about as many of them as possible.
    And I as another gay man of color that's TOTALLY seperate from Jbenito wouldn't mind at all if the cast were strictly minorities and LGBTQ chars.

    See how 2 demographically similar individuals can come to 2 different conclusions involving the same text
    Quote Originally Posted by gonnagiveittoya View Post
    I mean if they were all 100% gay having the mutants be a metaphor would be pointless since they literally wouldnt need to be.
    Why would it be?
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    I agree… It’s what interested me: the X-men were individuals, characters not representants of anything… They were likable people and anyone could use them as models and you didn’t need to feel as an outcast to appreciate them. They brought people together.
    how are they bringing closer these gregarious, social butterfly-type fans closer?
    GrindrStone(D)

  12. #72
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    how are they bringing closer these gregarious, social butterfly-type fans closer?
    They appeal to a lot of people for different reasons.

  13. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    And I as another gay man of color that's TOTALLY seperate from Jbenito wouldn't mind at all if the cast were strictly minorities and LGBTQ chars.

    See how 2 demographically similar individuals can come to 2 different conclusions involving the same text
    That's deep. Love it.
    Boop! Krakoa forever!

  14. #74
    Astonishing Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    I agree… It’s what interested me: the X-men were individuals, characters not representants of anything… They were likable people and anyone could use them as models and you didn’t need to feel as an outcast to appreciate them. They brought people together.
    For sure, there were plenty of people who couldn't or didn't identify with the outcast nature of the X-Men - and that's okay.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    They appeal to a lot of people for different reasons.
    Yeah, those fans could then connect to the outcast fans and grow closer to an understanding.
    Last edited by Hizashi; 09-28-2020 at 04:14 PM.
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  15. #75
    Astonishing Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    I think the solution to "Why do humans only hate mutants and not super-powered people?" is simple: establish that there are gradients to the mutant question. Here's a sample starter list:

    1. Fanatically pro-mutant
    2. Pro-mutant
    3. Reasonably concerned about dangerous mutants (both bad actors and innocents who can't control their mutation) and willing to work with the mutant community(ies) to address it.
    4. Indifferent
    5. Mildly anti-mutant
    6. Fanatically anti-mutant

    1 and 6 would have further subdivisions.

    Some in group 5 would be fans of the Avengers but dislike the X-Men. Some in group 6 would accuse virtually every superpowered individual of being a mutant.
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

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