Can the Xmen still be a metaphor for discrimination when pretty much all theirs

[Micabe]

I've read that book multiple times. Fantastic book, I'd even say the best X-men story

That moment is still 150% a crock of ****. And stevie's feelings and rebuttal afterwards don't remove that

edit: if anything it makes it worse.

How so? Please explain why it bothers you to such an extent.

[Woozie]

How so? Please explain why it bothers you to such an extent.

It is a FAKE Minority, who isn't a person of color, isn't visibly afflicted like say Nightcrawler. Who also happens to be a teenage white girl

Telling a full grown black woman about the equivalency of racial slurs, with the Black Woman agreeing that they're comparable

Written by a middle Aged White Man From London, BRITAIN.

Boy, I sure do wonder why that might bother me.

[Micabe]

Fair enough and I respect that but, Kitty is a Jewish.

[Woozie]

Fair enough and I respect that but, Kitty is a Jewish.

And? She certainly isn't coming from that angle when she goes off on Stevie.

[Omega Alpha]

No. First of all, because it was never supposed to be a 1:1 metaphor. And of course white people can and still suffer discrimination from being gay, poor, disabled, being part of a religious or ethnic minority, etc.

[Hizashi]

No. First of all, because it was never supposed to be a 1:1 metaphor. And of course white people can and still suffer discrimination from being gay, poor, disabled, being part of a religious or ethnic minority, etc.

Yeah, pretty much this. The point of the characters is empathizing with those who are different from you.

[BroHomo]

Stuff like this, when we got comics that actually do tackle real minority and oppressed issues is why X-men don't work as an allegory


Cause no matter HOW you try to spin that moment, it's a crock of BS

Personally, I never consider the fact that the mutants being persecuted was very relevant.

huh? it's like on the fringes on everything they do.

No. First of all, because it was never supposed to be a 1:1 metaphor. And of course white people can and still suffer discrimination from being gay, poor, disabled, being part of a religious or ethnic minority, etc.

well i think it's more to encourage the idea that you could emphasize with anyone

It is a FAKE Minority, who isn't a person of color, isn't visibly afflicted like say Nightcrawler. Who also happens to be a teenage white girl

Telling a full grown black woman about the equivalency of racial slurs, with the Black Woman agreeing that they're comparable

Written by a middle Aged White Man From London, BRITAIN.

Boy I sure do wonder why that might bother me.

Duuude I totally agree with you on everything forreals It was the 80s there were After School special moments like that for every tv show, comic etc
sooo this story is just a product of its time and I don't think this one story ruins the allegorical potential of the whole series
what was so groundbreaking about what Luke Cage was doing at that same time

[ExodusCloak]

A lot of the earliest stuff was very clearly meant to be a racial stand-in.The MLK/Malcom X comparisons for Xavier and Magneto for instance.

If you are talking Stan Lee you give him too much credit. At most be was addressing red scare/xenophobia. If you're talking Claremont he did not intend Xavier/Magneto to be a stand in for Malcolm X/MLK either.

That's not to take away from symbolism that clearly pointed to race, same sex rights etc

[Kisinith]

Seems like this is a discussion happening in two places, here and on the main Marvel forum. I responded in more depth there but some of the highlights are I think pertinent.

1. "Mutants in the Marvel Universe have always stood as a metaphor for the underclass, the outsiders; they represent the ultimate minority"
2. “The X-Men are hated, feared, and despised collectively by humanity for no other reason than that they are mutants. So what we have..., intended or not, is a book that is about racism, bigotry, and prejudice.”

Note what's missing here? No mention of Black, LGBTQ, Jewish, Muslim, Native American or any other specific group. Why? Because the allegories aren't about any one specific group, some stories reference one form of discrimination more closely than others but so what? The "M-Word" and mutie are very much inspired by the "N-Word" and anti-black racism but is that the only thing it can reference? Spoiler alert, there are specific derogatory and hurtful words used to describe other groups as well. A story about the "M-Word" may actually evoke meaning for someone who is, I dunno, gay for example. Or Jewish. Or.... Or....

Main Point, the X-Men are not telling stories about anti-black/gay/jewish/etc/etc.. prejudice. It is telling stories about human prejudice, stories like those, inspired by those but no matter how close not a 1:1 trade off. That is the whole point of metaphor and allegory.

[Devaishwarya]

Seems like this is a discussion happening in two places, here and on the main Marvel forum. I responded in more depth there but some of the highlights are I think pertinent.


Note what's missing here? No mention of Black, LGBTQ, Jewish, Muslim, Native American or any other specific group. Why? Because the allegories aren't about any one specific group, some stories reference one form of discrimination more closely than others but so what? The "M-Word" and mutie are very much inspired by the "N-Word" and anti-black racism but is that the only thing it can reference? Spoiler alert, there are specific derogatory and hurtful words used to describe other groups as well. A story about the "M-Word" may actually evoke meaning for someone who is, I dunno, gay for example. Or Jewish. Or.... Or....

Main Point, the X-Men are not telling stories about anti-black/gay/jewish/etc/etc.. prejudice. It is telling stories about human prejudice, stories like those, inspired by those but no matter how close not a 1:1 trade off. That is the whole point of metaphor and allegory.

And this truth is absolute. If some can't understand this then...

[Metal Sphere]

Yup, the X-Men only really works as a book about general human prejudice. The moment you start digging into specifics is where it starts falling apart (because it was never meant to withstand further scrutiny). It's why we'll sometimes get tone-deaf stuff like blonde haired, blue eyed, conventionally eurocentric beauty Emma Frost with her billions talking about being discriminated against. That's when Marvel really should pick another character to deliver lines like that.

[Kisinith]

Yup, the X-Men only really works as a book about general human prejudice. The moment you start digging into specifics is where it starts falling apart (because it was never meant to withstand further scrutiny). It's why we'll sometimes get tone-deaf stuff like blonde haired, blue eyed, conventionally eurocentric beauty Emma Frost with her billions talking about being discriminated against. That's when Marvel really should pick another character to deliver lines like that.

I dunno,
2.jpg
I could be wrong but I think she can make a compelling case
1.jpg

[Omega Alpha]

Yup, the X-Men only really works as a book about general human prejudice. The moment you start digging into specifics is where it starts falling apart (because it was never meant to withstand further scrutiny). It's why we'll sometimes get tone-deaf stuff like blonde haired, blue eyed, conventionally eurocentric beauty Emma Frost with her billions talking about being discriminated against. That's when Marvel really should pick another character to deliver lines like that.

Emma Frost is the survivor of a holocaust that killed 16 million people. She's able to understand and complain about racism as much as anyone.

[Kingdom X]

Seems like this is a discussion happening in two places, here and on the main Marvel forum. I responded in more depth there but some of the highlights are I think pertinent.


Note what's missing here? No mention of Black, LGBTQ, Jewish, Muslim, Native American or any other specific group. Why? Because the allegories aren't about any one specific group, some stories reference one form of discrimination more closely than others but so what? The "M-Word" and mutie are very much inspired by the "N-Word" and anti-black racism but is that the only thing it can reference? Spoiler alert, there are specific derogatory and hurtful words used to describe other groups as well. A story about the "M-Word" may actually evoke meaning for someone who is, I dunno, gay for example. Or Jewish. Or.... Or....

Main Point, the X-Men are not telling stories about anti-black/gay/jewish/etc/etc.. prejudice. It is telling stories about human prejudice, stories like those, inspired by those but no matter how close not a 1:1 trade off. That is the whole point of metaphor and allegory.

And I think it's fine if X-Men comics keep their discrimination stories general (I'm not sure a lot of writers would actually be able to make it more specific without it being tone deaf or sounding like an after school special). HOWEVER, if these comics want to practice what they're preaching I don't see the harm in highlighting their minority characters in addition to the mainstays.

[Hizashi]

How did Storm become the single most popular female X-Man in predominantly white America? White readers did not reject her for her race, they embraced her for her character; maybe they couldn't relate to her on a racial level, but they possibly had some eccentricity or quirk that made them feel ostracized and identified with Storm's mutantdom. My friend (white) and my nieces (Hispanic) absolutely LOVE Storm and they only have a passing knowledge of the X-Men. It's absolutely a positive good that black readers have Storm if they want to see representation that way, but these characters are beloved because they are multi-dimensional.