Can the Xmen still be a metaphor for discrimination when pretty much all theirs

[Triniking1234]

I'm gonna have to file "Villain Emma Frost was Candace Owens" under "Super Bad Takes".

[Huntsman Spider]

I'm gonna have to file "Villain Emma Frost was Candace Owens" under "Super Bad Takes".

Villain Emma Frost at least genuinely cared about her students and her motivation for gaining power and wealth was to have resources to protect those students from a world that wanted to annihilate them from existence. That said, when her methods failed to keep her students safe, to say nothing of alive, that was when she threw in her lot with Charles Xavier and the X-Men in the hopes that linking up with them would provide a better path for other young mutants. Now, someone like Sebastian Shaw, yeah, he never gave a f*** about other mutants; it was all about his own gain, to the point he took up building Sentinels while secretly installing a failsafe to keep himself from being targeted by them.

[thecoolaidkid]

Zelena and KindomX are both right.

It's definitely how the X-Men views the world and defines their general role in it.
But...
That role does not exclude their actively trying to change the world for the better through their actions and by heroic examples back in the Claremont days. (After they defeated Apocalypse in FotM, X-Factor were celebrated as mutant heroes...which didn't last but....)

Even now...as Storm says in M13...if they don't fight the Amenthi and win the world is doomed. So they're still living up to that part of the "bargain" in spite of racist shyts like Xeno and Mater Monstra (not her real name) and the Russian Government.

As a minority community the mutants (even rich, White powerful Emma and Xavier) are fully self aware and aware of their place in the MU just for being Mutants. It's like Oprah and other rich, influential Black people, as in Tulsa, in America...they are still regarded as N-word who should know their place and stay in their place, by some.

Naw the whole allegory has ran its course. Many Black people feel that the "wealthy blacks" no way aligned with their views.

[BroHomo]

Naw the whole allegory has ran its course. Many Black people feel that the "wealthy blacks" no way aligned with their views.

I think it's less about wealth and more to do with differences on social issues

[Zelena]

I don’t think that mentality works for the X-Men franchise as a whole. First of all, shouldnÂ’t they be trying to change the world? Xavier wanted the world to see what “good mutants” look like, so from the beginning they were at least trying to change public perception.

Second, the world forcibly defines them as mutants and won’t let them forget even when they’re doing general super heroics. Also, think about all the young mutants who literally just started out as students and got flung into this crazy lifestyle. You canÂ’t even compare them to other young superheroes (like some of the Robin’s) who made the active choice to put on a costume and fight crime.

Probably not for the whole franchise because each author has the freedom to do what they want with the X-men, apparently.

Yes, people can try to change the world. There’s nothing wrong to it. But changing the way people think about a community, a group of people… Think about the ambition. The X-men are mutant and they behave heroically. So there are heroic mutants… It doesn’t negate the fact there are mutant villains, mutant ordinary people…

In some issues, Xavier was seen as wanting to use the X-men as models for every mutant but I remember what said Moira to him: “and if they don’t want to be heroes?”. People are free to behave like they want, even mutants.

As a reader, I trusted the X-men to do the right thing, not to abuse of their powers. And it trusted the villains to abuse of their powers… But it doesn’t say anything about the mutants, this anonymous mass… And I’m reading a comic, I’m not a human of X-men stories, I’m in a safe place.

Certainly, it must be terrible to be born with what can be considered as a weapon, and experiences prejudices because of that. But, first, it’s a just a fiction. And to live peacefully, trust must be built, a dialogue is required where the involved parties eventually will find a common ground. It’s politics. Harder than fighting a villain.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Villain Emma Frost at least genuinely cared about her students and her motivation for gaining power and wealth was to have resources to protect those students from a world that wanted to annihilate them from existence. That said, when her methods failed to keep her students safe, to say nothing of alive, that was when she threw in her lot with Charles Xavier and the X-Men in the hopes that linking up with them would provide a better path for other young mutants. Now, someone like Sebastian Shaw, yeah, he never gave a f*** about other mutants; it was all about his own gain, to the point he took up building Sentinels while secretly installing a failsafe to keep himself from being targeted by them.

Except we know that's not her whole story, and she never truly embraced Xavier's philosophy - her niche on the team is to be then "evil" team mate who will do what others won't. She still is concerned only about herself and manipulating others to get what she wants, like her affair with Cyclops when Jean was alive.

This is where she began, the Hellfire Club's influence one her never truly left.



This is a tactic terrorist groups like the Taliban use too gain new members, join our group or we'll kill your family. She doesn't respect Kitty, she's not proud of being mutant or protecting mutant kind - all that is just a tool to use for power and she'll get that power over mutant bodies. She's progressed by she still was mutant Candace Owens.

Emma was a huge supporter of Sebastian Shaw, thick and thin, for years as an enemy of the X-men. She agreed with his ideology and tactics. Sebastian Shaw is just doing what the Hellfire Club does, they never cared about mutants.

[BroHomo]

What Emma (and others) would deal with in those terms will differ from what Sam or Cage or Miles would deal with.

There are different levels of it to fit whatever agenda one has.

Emma would NEVER face the level of hate Sam Wilson or Cage or Synch or Alex Wilder would get.

She would face it but a water down version of it.

Look at Star Wars-for as much toxic crap we saw-Daisy Riley did not get the abuse John Boyega got. Both were hated by certain parts of fandom but John (along with Kelly) was the face of the abuse.

I meeeeeeean not in the 616 tho...

Does Sam Wilson, Cage, or Alex Wilder have giant government sponsored killer robots trying to kill them?
No?
ok.

Except we know that's not her whole story, and she never truly embraced Xavier's philosophy - her niche on the team is to be then "evil" team mate who will do what others won't. She still is concerned only about herself and manipulating others to get what she wants, like her affair with Cyclops when Jean was alive.
.

Doing what others won't? Trying to sleep with a married Summers? How is this different than Wolverine? cept Hes been doing it longer, and she was successful?

This is where she began, the Hellfire Club's influence one her never truly left.



This is a tactic terrorist groups like the Taliban use too gain new members, join our group or we'll kill your family. She doesn't respect Kitty, she's not proud of being mutant or protecting mutant kind - all that is just a tool to use for power and she'll get that power over mutant bodies. She's progressed by she still was mutant Candace Owens.

Well to be fair its also a supervillain tactic, which isnt surprising since Emma was a supervillian in the panel. Also this one page doesn't hold up anymore, esp vs. the 25+ years shes been one of the strongest advocate for mutant kids in the 616.
I dont think you know who Candace Owens is.

Emma was a huge supporter of Sebastian Shaw, thick and thin, for years as an enemy of the X-men. She agreed with his ideology and tactics. Sebastian Shaw is just doing what the Hellfire Club does, they never cared about mutants.

I mean he was pissed about the betrayal with the Sentinels

[Steel Inquisitor]

I meeeeeeean not in the 616 tho...

Does Sam Wilson, Cage, or Alex Wilder have giant government sponsored killer robots trying to kill them?
No?
ok.

Instead they have an army an endless super-villains trying to kill them, some of them literal Nazis like Red Skull. Various Black super-heroes like Black Panther and Falcon have also gone up against the Klan and racist hate groups in Marvel. Cage himself has been a prominent figure fighting against racist discrimination and oppression from the beginnings of his career.

Doing what others won't? Trying to sleep with a married Summers? How is this different than Wolverine? cept Hes been doing it longer, and she was successful?

Whenever Wolverine's not around she takes that niche, and he at least admits he's a terrible person who does horrible things she gets off doing that. Yeah. Wolverine was incredibly wrong for doing that, just because he's a man didn't make what he did right. Her succeeding didn't make any of that right. Jean was well within her rights to be angry with Emma when she found out.

Well to be fair its also a supervillain tactic, which isnt surprising since Emma was a supervillian in the panel. Also this one page doesn't hold up anymore, esp vs. the 25+ years shes been one of the strongest advocate for mutant kids in the 616.

Which is why her behaviour as a super-villain shouldn't be sugar coated. Emma has progressed but she's far from being Jean Grey ethically. It frankly remarkable how easily she was forgiven and continues to do ethically questionable things as an X-man. She's also one of the few mutant super-villains who willing threatened potential students families and wanted to sacrifice mutant bodies for power. That's evil. And she's hardly gotten rid of her tendencies to throw others under the bus to get what she wants, she's just transferred that onto non-mutants.

I dont think you know who Candace Owens is.

Of course I do. Emma Frost's worse than she is as a super-villain, and Emma's far from alone on that count. Emma's even got the Republican slogan "F** you, got mine" down to an art form.

I mean he was pissed about the betrayal with the Sentinels

Emma knew who Shaw was, and what the Hellfire Club stood for. It took years before she started realising she was doing this in the Hellfire Club.

[Agent Z]

Luke Cage was also falsely imprisoned for a crime he didn't commit, was the target of a racist corrections officer and subjected to experimentation. Yeah, I can say he definitely has it worse than Emma and unlike her, he didn't help fund the very weapon used to target him and people like him.

[Agent Z]

I meeeeeeean not in the 616 tho...

Does Sam Wilson, Cage, or Alex Wilder have giant government sponsored killer robots trying to kill them?
No?
ok.
Doing what others won't? Trying to sleep with a married Summers? How is this different than Wolverine? cept Hes been doing it longer, and she was successful?


Well to be fair its also a supervillain tactic, which isnt surprising since Emma was a supervillian in the panel. Also this one page doesn't hold up anymore, esp vs. the 25+ years shes been one of the strongest advocate for mutant kids in the 616.
I dont think you know who Candace Owens is.

I mean he was pissed about the betrayal with the Sentinels

Didn't stop him from building and funding Sentinels later.

And what is it with you and drawing out letters when you type?

[skyvolt2000]

Does Sam Wilson, Cage, or Alex Wilder have giant government sponsored killer robots trying to kill them?

WHOSE fault is that?

WHOSE fault that story has never been told?

Sam Wilson talks to birds. How many birds or bird related creatures are on this planet?

Flint of the Inhumans-could drop an asteroid on the White House with his powers.

Brother Voodoo deals with the dead.

WHOSE fault is it those stories don't get told? Because one panders to a readership that refuse to believe black folks are worth anything.

Yet when you start looking at various black heroes and villains along with the folks in Wakanda.

Mutants would be the LEAST of a government's worries. Especially if Prodigy, Tag, Darwin, the brothers of NYX & Synch tell the X-Men to screw off since this franchise has issues with black males and join Wakanda.

But that story will never get told under a Marvel banner.

[Huntsman Spider]

WHOSE fault is that?

WHOSE fault that story has never been told?

Sam Wilson talks to birds. How many birds or bird related creatures are on this planet?

Flint of the Inhumans-could drop an asteroid on the White House with his powers.

Brother Voodoo deals with the dead.

WHOSE fault is it those stories don't get told? Because one panders to a readership that refuse to believe black folks are worth anything.

Yet when you start looking at various black heroes and villains along with the folks in Wakanda.

Mutants would be the LEAST of a government's worries. Especially if Prodigy, Tag, Darwin, the brothers of NYX & Synch tell the X-Men to screw off since this franchise has issues with black males and join Wakanda.

But that story will never get told under a Marvel banner.

Let's not forget that in Sam's case, he also had to deal with the Americops, a privatized, mechanized police force that was basically a way for his writer, Nick Spencer, to take on the issue of black American neighborhoods being aggressively, (perhaps) even repressively hyper-policed without necessarily having to directly indict the NYPD in-universe or in real life.