Can the Xmen still be a metaphor for discrimination when pretty much all theirs

[Captain Buttocks]

Sorry, not to dismiss this as these are examples of later inspirations, I just meant in the Stan Lee era.

That's a good point - it wasn't until issue 14 of the Silver Age issues (over 2 years into it's existence) that the "anti-mutant hysteria" plot was really hit upon. It's a milestone issue (rather gloriously it mentions that the title is going monthly from #15 due to "unprecedented demand" which is... wishful thinking).

Kirby only did three more issues, and Lee five before Werner Roth and then Roy Thomas (first, less successful run) took over and they didn't focus on the anti-mutant aspect.

[Devaishwarya]

As it stands right now...it's far less a metaphor for the discriminated and hated and persecuted (although that is still quite evident, literarily) and much more a symbol of empowerment, strength in unity, and community as that is the pervasive message in this current real world time.

The metaphor has changed: They're no longer "Protecting a world that fears and hates them". They're "Standing up to a world that would see them as less"

As it should...this is 2020 after all.

[Hellion]

I think the X-men As Metaphor concept is different things for different people, and regardless of the quality of storytelling over the years, I think "mutants as a metaphor for group(s) of people that other people hate and fear" is always going to be relevant.

For me personally, the mutant metaphor is most powerful in God Loves, Man Kills and when Kyle/Yost resurrected Reverend Stryker and the Purifiers. Religious zealots murdering children for being different resonates with me because in the area I grew up in, plenty of religious folks felt and acted that way towards gay people. I myself am bisexual, so there was a lot of fear and I had to hide from that kind of prejudice.

In the world today, we still have very polarized societies. In America alone, we have a president who loves to encourage Us vs. Them mentalities. Democrats/liberals are subhuman. Hispanics are rapists, thieves, murderers, etc. China deliberately gave us COVID-19. As long as we keep demonizing other peoples, the X-men are always going to be relevant. As far as actual racial/ethnic makeup of X-men characters themselves goes...well, there's clearly room for improvement, but at the same time, fans don't like change. The New X-men were a very racially/ethnically diverse generation of mutants who were trained to become future X-men...and then promptly used as window dressing 95% of the time because nobody is going to want to let go of the older, whiter characters to make room for them.

[Huntsman Spider]

Sorry, not to dismiss this as these are examples of later inspirations, I just meant in the Stan Lee era.

Ah, I see. I apologize for misinterpreting your intent.

As it stands right now...it's far less a metaphor for the discriminated and hated and persecuted (although that is still quite evident, literarily) and much more a symbol of empowerment, strength in unity, and community as that is the pervasive message in this current real world time.

The metaphor has changed: They're no longer "Protecting a world that fears and hates them". They're "Standing up to a world that would see them as less"

As it should...this is 2020 after all.

Yeah, times have definitely changed, and given that evolution --- not just genetic, but societal, philosophical, cultural, even political --- is the central theme of the X-Men . . .

I think the X-men As Metaphor concept is different things for different people, and regardless of the quality of storytelling over the years, I think "mutants as a metaphor for group(s) of people that other people hate and fear" is always going to be relevant.

For me personally, the mutant metaphor is most powerful in God Loves, Man Kills and when Kyle/Yost resurrected Reverend Stryker and the Purifiers. Religious zealots murdering children for being different resonates with me because in the area I grew up in, plenty of religious folks felt and acted that way towards gay people. I myself am bisexual, so there was a lot of fear and I had to hide from that kind of prejudice.

In the world today, we still have very polarized societies. In America alone, we have a president who loves to encourage Us vs. Them mentalities. Democrats/liberals are subhuman. Hispanics are rapists, thieves, murderers, etc. China deliberately gave us COVID-19. As long as we keep demonizing other peoples, the X-men are always going to be relevant. As far as actual racial/ethnic makeup of X-men characters themselves goes...well, there's clearly room for improvement, but at the same time, fans don't like change. The New X-men were a very racially/ethnically diverse generation of mutants who were trained to become future X-men...and then promptly used as window dressing 95% of the time because nobody is going to want to let go of the older, whiter characters to make room for them.

Very good points there, and given that Kyle/Yost's update of the Purifiers had it so they were secretly supported and backed up by (members of) the government and/or law enforcement, it would be even more relevant to certain events over this past year.

[Hellion]

As it stands right now...it's far less a metaphor for the discriminated and hated and persecuted (although that is still quite evident, literarily) and much more a symbol of empowerment, strength in unity, and community as that is the pervasive message in this current real world time.

The metaphor has changed: They're no longer "Protecting a world that fears and hates them". They're "Standing up to a world that would see them as less"

As it should...this is 2020 after all.

I couldn't say it any better, and I agree with you. I'm glad they're finally "standing up to the world." Maybe my derision for Xavier's past pacifism stems from growing up with a chronically unassertive mother, but I've always thought Magneto's philosophy made more sense because, at the very least, it's proactive.

[Castiel]

I think it's a bigger problem to focus too heavily on diversity if you do it becomes forced. People want escapism and don't like to be reminded of things by way of having it shoved in their face. This is why losing the metaphor has caused so much problems. For example Iceman being made gay upset a lot of fans and it's like the man Stan Lee said a person should make their own character not change one that already exists. The problem is many writers ignore this and change already existing characters to fit what they are trying to do. Honestly one could make the argument that hating on Xmen being mostly "white" is offensive in of itself I mean Europe is diverse and has many cultures from Italians, to Brits, Romanians, Russians, and so on. Using "white" to generalize is more of a modern trend and mostly used in western countries.

[Glio]

They represent different types of discrimination depending on the mutant in question. Mutants like Rogue or Cyclops, people with disabilities, mutants like Beast or Nightcrawler, racial discrimination, mutants who have to hide their powers, LGBT discrimination.

[OopsIdiditagain]

I was giving this a lot of thought. I understand how everyone says that the Xmen are metaphors for discrimination because you can lump them into any group. You are Black? The Xmen speak to you. You are gay the Xmen speak to you.

But my question is does it take away from the metaphor or does the metaphor not hold up as well when pretty much every major Xmen character is white?

I am not up on the last ten years or so of Xmen so Maybe this has changed. When I hear people talk about black characters in the X world it is always Bishop or Storm. Gay characters? Northstar who is not a major character and Ice Man.

So like I ask does the metaphor still hold up today?

If I am wrong on this please tell me who some of the other major characters are that are POC or Gay.

The x-men being a metaphor for discrimination only came after Chris Claremont.

They're more of a metaphor for the Red Scare. Which was the fear of communism coming from newer white immigrants to the USA.

[Kingdom X]

I think it's a bigger problem to focus too heavily on diversity if you do it becomes forced. People want escapism and don't like to be reminded of things by way of having it shoved in their face. This is why losing the metaphor has caused so much problems. For example Iceman being made gay upset a lot of fans and it's like the man Stan Lee said a person should make their own character not change one that already exists. The problem is many writers ignore this and change already existing characters to fit what they are trying to do. Honestly one could make the argument that hating on Xmen being mostly "white" is offensive in of itself I mean Europe is diverse and has many cultures from Italians, to Brits, Romanians, Russians, and so on. Using "white" to generalize is more of a modern trend and mostly used in western countries.

That’s why I think it’s a good idea to strike a balance. The franchise already has plenty of diversity in it’s later generations (New Mutants, Gen X, and New X-Men) so having teams that are a mix of classic members and newer members can please both crowds.

[Kingdom X]

The x-men being a metaphor for discrimination only came after Chris Claremont.

They're more of a metaphor for the Red Scare. Which was the fear of communism coming from newer white immigrants to the USA.

Wasn't there a direct parallel of someone calling Kitty a mutie and her calling them the n-word?

[Hellion]

Wasn't there a direct parallel of someone calling Kitty a mutie and her calling them the n-word?

Yes, this exchange happened in Claremont's God Loves, Man Kills.

[Woozie]

Wasn't there a direct parallel of someone calling Kitty a mutie and her calling them the n-word?

Stuff like this, when we got comics that actually do tackle real minority and oppressed issues is why X-men don't work as an allegory


Cause no matter HOW you try to spin that moment, it's a crock of BS

[Zelena]

I couldn't say it any better, and I agree with you. I'm glad they're finally "standing up to the world." Maybe my derision for Xavier's past pacifism stems from growing up with a chronically unassertive mother, but I've always thought Magneto's philosophy made more sense because, at the very least, it's proactive.

Personally, I never consider the fact that the mutants being persecuted was very relevant.
I mostly read Claremont stories and these stories were about the X-men, not the mutants. And when I read these stories, the “mutant persecution” wasn’t obvious. It was stories about courageous, generous people that help everyone who need it. The fact that they were odd and not very well understood accentued their values. It’s like that I understood “protecting a world that fears and hates them”: by protecting the world, they show that they are a part of this world, as strange as they may be. It doesn’t matter if they are not well understood as long as they do the right thing.

Shifting from the X-men to the mutants has not interest for me. The mutants have no special values, seldom even a name in comics, the one thing they have in common is to have specificities. They are these “ordinary men” that could be used by populists: “see, you are special, you have a power and together we are stronger”.

[Micabe]

Wasn't there a direct parallel of someone calling Kitty a mutie and her calling them the n-word?

Stuff like this, when we got comics that actually do tackle real minority and oppressed issues is why X-men don't work as an allegory

Cause no matter HOW you try to spin that moment, it's a crock of BS

Oh, for the sake of clarity... Please read "God Loves, Man Kills" again.

[Woozie]

Oh, for the sake of clarity... Please read "God Loves, Man Kills" again.

I've read that book multiple times. Fantastic book, I'd even say the best X-men story

That moment is still 150% a crock of ****. And stevie's feelings and rebuttal afterwards don't remove that

edit: if anything it makes it worse.