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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Yeah, if I had mostly wider critique of the Earth One line is that they're not that ultimately different from the main counterparts (mainly Superman and Batman). Wonder Woman is at least trying to do something different with modern Golden Age and I think that's why I liked the first volume of GL: Earth One so much.

    Then there's Titans but that just sucked from what I heard.
    Really? I heard different.

  2. #77
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    It kind of implies the opposite, doesn't it? it they're welcome there, would the attitudes of their oppressors really be tolerated?
    That hits right into Popper's paradox of intolerance. And that's even more acute for a group that has been suppressed or oppressed for a long time. They need real reassurances that they, specifically they, are welcome on their own terms.

    This is one of those cases where if you do something, you need to do it well, or don't do it at all. Right now it only feeds into the general theme of Diana being unprepared for her mission to Man's World.

    If I were to approach trans rights in Wonder Woman my pitch would be to lean into the secret history theme of Themyscira, and do a partial retelling of the Illiad where Achilles is a trans woman and Thetis was an Amazon (or closely associated with them).

    It’s ambitious because it tries. It’s a failure because he doesn’t do a good job a lot of the time. That said that Diana does affirm transwomen have a place says a lot and is more than they get in the mainline books where as far as I’m aware they’ve never even broached the subject. It’s not perfect but is it even Morrison’s place to really go in-depth on that subject as Siege points out?
    If it tries, it far too seldom rises over a mainsplaining "Actually…" when it engages with Marston.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  3. #78

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    I liked it the most out of the Earth One line.

    The others are mostly alright but I would recommend something else instead. For example, go play the Telltale Batman game for Batman, go read American Alien for Superman, or go check out Far Sector for GL.
    Last edited by the illustrious mr. kenway; 10-26-2020 at 11:41 AM.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderScott View Post
    One thing I will say is that Morrison and Paquette are the first creative duo in a while to come close to portraying the Amazons, their culture, their fashion, their technology, etc. in a way I find interesting and appealing.

    I like my Amazons portrayed with elements of myth, magic, technology, science fiction, etc. all rolled into one. A stagnant, unchanged-by-time Amazonian society is unendingly boring to me and antithetical to the concept of Wonder Woman and the Amazons.
    Agreed. Morrison and Paquette's version of Amazon culture is probably my favorite version in any media to date.
    His current approval rating is 34%, meaning 34% of Americans are still morons.

  5. #80
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    That hits right into Popper's paradox of intolerance. And that's even more acute for a group that has been suppressed or oppressed for a long time. They need real reassurances that they, specifically they, are welcome on their own terms.

    This is one of those cases where if you do something, you need to do it well, or don't do it at all. Right now it only feeds into the general theme of Diana being unprepared for her mission to Man's World.
    Diana usually IS unprepared for her mission in a lot of versions though. In the Perez run, she was taken aback by a lot of things and had to grow into the role of ambassador. In the movie she left he island under the naive belief of "Stop Ares = end all of man's problems" and had to get a wake up call. She comes from a loving, sheltered life on a fantasy island whose culture isn't going to completely mesh with ours. Her answer to the trans woman is well meaning but not completely satisfying, and that may be part of the point. As she's also hit with other questions she has no easy answers to (like body image, or why the Amazons don't just conquer the world and fix it). She had a similar marketing blitz in the Perez run courtesy of Myndi that she does here, and she unwittingly made some women insecure about their looks, addressed in the Silver Swan arcs. She's still early in her career and the entire outside world is VERY complicated and doesn't lend itself to easy answers.

    And this is just in runs that deal with a more straightforward takes of the feminism and equality she preaches for. Marston's ideas are a whole other ballpark, and the main reason she didn't get asked tough questions in his run is because he wasn't interested in his philosophies being disagreed with. She was his mouthpiece, and she (or someone like Queen Desira or Aphrodite) was always right. Whereas a relatively grounded, modern setting like the man's World in this book is gonna be taken aback by the idea of kinky bondage = automatic liberation. There is also no way to make mind control as a method of rehabilitation look good, which is why the scene of Paula getting the Venus Girdle has an ominous undercurrent. And is very deliberately set up as parallel to Psycho invading Diana's mind. We're not done with Paula yet, so it may be cast aside for another method of rehabilitation. In intent (if not in execution), it may be aiming to bring back the original stuff attached to the character, pick apart what doesn't work, and replace it with something better. Because forced mind control, no matter how benevolent the intentions behind it, is not the best option.

    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    If I were to approach trans rights in Wonder Woman my pitch would be to lean into the secret history theme of Themyscira, and do a partial retelling of the Illiad where Achilles is a trans woman and Thetis was an Amazon (or closely associated with them).
    This actually sounds very interesting. Is there a basis for Achilles being used that way? It has potential even if not.

  6. #81
    Incredible Member chachi's Avatar
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    I really enjoyed the first two volumes of WW Earth One, I think in part because I never really read much Wonder Woman prior, if any at all. Same goes for the Green Lantern EO books. I think Green Lantern one are the best followed by the Wonder Woman ones. I have very high hopes for Volume 3, art looks amazing in the preview pages.

  7. #82
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Diana usually IS unprepared for her mission in a lot of versions though.
    Yes, but there are nuances to how and why her preparations aren't perfect. That she will suffer from some form of culture shock in Man's World is largely a given, but as always the devil is in the details.

    Pérez gave the impression of a well-educated Diana. The movie gave the impression of a young and very passionate Diana. Both would lead primarily by example. My impression from Morrison was a Diana with answers that were simple, neat, and wrong. When Morrison then throws softball questions of modern feminism at her, his Diana has no answers, despite that many of those questions are widely explored in modern feminism.

    In a way, the book is setting itself up for some of those questions, due to the way the bodies of the Amazons are depicted.

    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    This actually sounds very interesting. Is there a basis for Achilles being used that way? It has potential even if not.
    The idea came from the story of Achilles on Skyros.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

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