The balance of power levels

[Malachi]

Depending on character this is more or less an issue. In the end X-men characters are created to work as a team and face enemies as a team. They are not solo heroes.

Over the years some characters have gotten power upgrades. Some have gotten sidegrades, some have stood still and some have regressed. While in general most enemies have gotten upgrades. All enemies if one is not to count the toadies like… well toad.

This leaves us with a mixed bag to say the least. You want a foe that Jean can battle and while she perhaps shouldn’t go all out, she definitely shouldn’t hold back. The same foe should be someone that Nightcrawler, Warren, Magneto and Kitty fights. Such a fight should not be that Jean and Magneto are the big guns and the rest tend to be written more as fodder.

The standard argument that a good writer fixes this doesn’t really apply. In its most basic form this should be clear enough that a bad writer can write it and everyone has clear roles and clear contributions.

Some examples. Warren from the O5. Iceman and Jean are now classified as omega. Beast is a mutated scientist, so he gets to play the smart card. Cyclops have the same powers but his blasts have been upgraded over the years. A stealth upgrade that is.
Warren got his Archangel phase, dabbled in healing powers, but mostly he is still defined by his flying ability. Something others have gotten as a bonus over the years with their powers. It’s harder to find a use for Warren when you need a foe that can challenge Jean and Bobby. Scott often has the foe being damaged by his blast and Hank uses his brain and agility to deliver some solution. Warren is sort of… well left behind.

Gambit. If Warren has stood still more then anything sense then Remy has regressed. In the awful Stephanie Phillips mini it was highlighted how the foes brought in to fight Rogue were way above Gambit’s level. Absorbing man, Juggernaut… so here we got a case of not the best writer in marvels payroll coming up short with the fights.
This problem has been around longer and even Carey struggled when he often had others like Shaw or Magneto around Remy.

There are other examples but I have felt for years now that Marvel has fallen away from the formula that I got introduced to. Where power levels varied but almost everyone had a specialty. In X-men 1 or 2 Betsy uses her psychic dagger to pierce Magneto. A great example of a character who lacks range but is agile, who needs to get very close to Erik to hurt him. She had a power that was almost always useful but very situational in when it could be used. The same with Logan. His claws could hurt almost everyone but he needed to get close.

These days so many characters have become downplayed to the point of losing their function in a fight. There are just so many fights where you can enjoy Kitty and her specific power not working on the enemies.

[marhawkman]

yeah "differently abled" hehe.... no one can do everything, but yeah, some characters intentionally have more. Honestly making everyone "equal" is harder than just making them different in ways that are also useful.

[Nicoclaws]

About Warren, I'd say the Archangel form/wings were an upgrade superior to Beat's animalistic form. He can go back to it whenever, apparently. I wish he still had the light wings though. A healer is always good.

[Sutekh]

From a gamist perspective, some of the mutants seem designed to work on a team. Cyclops is all offense, no defense or utility or transport. Angel and Nightcrawler are decent scrappy fighters, and have decent transport, but neither have a big attack like Cyclops, Banshee, Havok, etc., nor an awesome defense like Colossus, Wolverine, Kitty, etc. The 'Fastball Special' was a fine example of mutants *needing* to work together to overcome limitations. (Wolverine is basically melee DPS. He's deadweight as a ranged combatant, or against the not-uncommon flying threat, and so the most effective tactic is for Colossus to *throw him at the enemy.* He's certainly not alone there. Thunderbird, Wolfsbane, Madrox, lots of effective characters with zero ranged utility. Tanky sorts like Colossus, Strong Guy or Juggernaut at least can *throw a car* at a distant foe!)

And then there's Jean. All the offense. All the defense. So much utility between telekinesis and the bajillion things a Marvel mutant telepath can do (Ranged Communication? Mind control? Instant translation? Instant adoption of any skill? Instant *teaching* of any language or skill to teammates? Memory erasure? Illusions? Stop people's hearts and make them die? Telepathically render themselves or their entire team invisible? Just ridiculous!). Back when she was 'chucks things at Magneto' girl, with only telekinesis, mostly limited to what she could lift with her mostly human strength, she fit the rest of the X-Men, but she (and Bobby, now immortal, invulnerable, teleports around the world, forms dozens of bodies, or one as big as a building, as well as Omega ice-creator!) no longer really need a team, or teamwork, or Cyclops to come up with a strategy. They're basically 'I win' buttons, and the only time they don't win is against foes as over-the-top as they are, or when the plot requires that they be criminally stupid and forget 98% of their powers.

Far more explicitly than the All-New X-Men, the original five New Mutants were almost perfectly designed to have special strengths and weaknesses that required them to work as a team. Sunspot had the Cyclops glass cannon problem. Big punch, no defense. Moonstar and Karma had ranged attacks, but no defense, Wolfsbane and Cannonball did not (although Cannonball arguably *was* a ranged attack...), and really Cannonball was the only team with a real defense and it was unreliable (only when 'nigh invulnerable when ahm blastin').

Then the blonde patrol showed up. Amara was a bigger gun than any they had seen before. And Ilyanna with her soul sword, sorcery, (unreliable...) demon minions, armor bits and, oh yeah, an *actual mutant power* that seemed like an afterthought and she mostly used to be team bus, could do pretty much everything, and had to be unreliable *as a character* to stop her from just dominating every single situation. "Oh look, Ilyanna can't teleport us out of Asgard because her demonsoul's all corrupted by the Enchantress. How off that kind of thing always seems to happen when she would utterly trivialize the situation that has the rest of us stuck...)

And there's the rub. Powerful characters end up being weak personalities, all corrupted by their power, to 'keep them in check.' Jean, Wanda, Ilyanna. Gotta keep them from wrecking the story, so let's make them weak-willed victims (or, yanno, alien cosmic entities cosplaying as mutants for... reasons?) who can't handle their power!

[ChronoRogue]

I think comic writers are limited sometimes with trying to balance development, plot-lines and giving characters their due within 28-32 pages. Also likely an issue that editors don't catch this or try to give writers ideas for how to use a character.

Shows, movies, and even video games can be a good avenues to show that everyone has their niche or can contribute to the team in overlooked ways. When you need to consider a character working within a specific space, as the focus of an episode or as a playable, you're forced to really consider what they bring to the table which helps highlight those strengths and unique talents.

In a way, 97' will be helpful to remind future writers of these specialties as it can reach a wider audience. Even if they don't do their due diligence in basic research regarding power-sets, at least they have other visual short-form media like shows to consume and inform them of a characters abilities.

[The tall man]

Ideally the concept of omega level mutants should be done away with and I believe all mutants should have a cap on their power levels. They reach a certain point and fatigue sets in, or they unleash their power in a massive way and are drained for a bit until they recover. But unfortunately the horse has left the barn and it's not coming back. To many X-fans love their faves being uber powerful and performing massive feats. Anything short of that is seen as jobbing. So we're stuck with ever expanding power levels, hell, even power damperners don't seem to exist anymore.

[sunofdarkchild]

I'm going to agree with the 'get rid of the entire concept of omega-level mutants' idea. It has been one of the biggest problems of the whole post-Hickman Krakoa era and makes both the characters and the stories boring. At this point, the fastest way to make me dislike a character and avoid any books with them is to declare that they're now 'omega-level.'

[GoingGreen]

I honestly really think there needs to be a checks & balances system here.

I think Omega level is so abused and misused when it comes to Phoenix, Storm, Iceman, and Magneto. Battles they engage in now have to be so gargantuan, you can't connect with their struggles at all. It's just "oh cool, they can terraform Mars now..." I can't even conceptualize that, let alone connect with it. The sheer amount of science, alone, kills it for me when I think even remotely critically about the material. And then, as pointed out, when writers DON'T utilize characters to their most extremes like other iterations, those writers are wildly criticized, because "So and so can do WAY more than that!" Or "that character could NEVER be taken out that way!" Look at Phoenix's most recent death at the hands of Robo-Moira. It was such a laughable death, because there's no reason Jean would have ever been snuck upon in such a way by such a pedestrian-dressed person in sneakers...

I REALLY think there needs to be an official -event- that changes how mutations work. Like, they're still mutants, but humans can still out power them in some way - and they don't need ROBOTS to do it for them.

And example of resetting this - Omega shouldn't be defined as limitless power, but limitless mutant endurance - using their powers do not cause wear and tear. Alpha mutants should be defined as the most powerful, with powers that extend beyond themselves - but the more power they have / experience, they're driven to madness or their body begins to deteriorate or age rapidly (like Synch) because of the crippling weight of power itself (just like too much knowledge drives a person to madness). Etc.

There used to be RULES that kept the stakes high.

Writers have completely given up on the rules of reasonable suspension-of-disbelief in favor of a couple of cool panels of inconceivable power, taking certain characters so far out that the only thing you can do is kill them for certain times of desperation, and bring them back to show hope to weaker mutants, rinse and repeat.

[Malachi]

Ideally the concept of omega level mutants should be done away with and I believe all mutants should have a cap on their power levels. They reach a certain point and fatigue sets in, or they unleash their power in a massive way and are drained for a bit until they recover. But unfortunately the horse has left the barn and it's not coming back. To many X-fans love their faves being uber powerful and performing massive feats. Anything short of that is seen as jobbing. So we're stuck with ever expanding power levels, hell, even power damperners don't seem to exist anymore.

I can agree with you but at the same time I don't want to nerf people's favorite characters. Once marvel started walking that road I'm afraid it will only lead to problems in the long term.

I honestly really think there needs to be a checks & balances system here.

I think Omega level is so abused and misused when it comes to Phoenix, Storm, Iceman, and Magneto. Battles they engage in now have to be so gargantuan, you can't connect with their struggles at all. It's just "oh cool, they can terraform Mars now..." I can't even conceptualize that, let alone connect with it. The sheer amount of science, alone, kills it for me when I think even remotely critically about the material. And then, as pointed out, when writers DON'T utilize characters to their most extremes like other iterations, those writers are wildly criticized, because "So and so can do WAY more than that!" Or "that character could NEVER be taken out that way!" Look at Phoenix's most recent death at the hands of Robo-Moira. It was such a laughable death, because there's no reason Jean would have ever been snuck upon in such a way by such a pedestrian-dressed person in sneakers...

I REALLY think there needs to be an official -event- that changes how mutations work. Like, they're still mutants, but humans can still out power them in some way - and they don't need ROBOTS to do it for them.

And example of resetting this - Omega shouldn't be defined as limitless power, but limitless mutant endurance - using their powers do not cause wear and tear. Alpha mutants should be defined as the most powerful, with powers that extend beyond themselves - but the more power they have / experience, they're driven to madness or their body begins to deteriorate or age rapidly (like Synch) because of the crippling weight of power itself (just like too much knowledge drives a person to madness). Etc.

There used to be RULES that kept the stakes high.

Writers have completely given up on the rules of reasonable suspension-of-disbelief in favor of a couple of cool panels of inconceivable power, taking certain characters so far out that the only thing you can do is kill them for certain times of desperation, and bring them back to show hope to weaker mutants, rinse and repeat.

There needs to be a new system were there are obvious perks and cons. I like the lateral move of shifting omega to endurance. X-man was powerful but designed to burn out by using his powers. Gambit's powers were flaring out of contorl when he was young so he had Sinister remove a part of his brain to gain more control and in the process become less powerful too. We are treating Omega as this pinnacle and that becomes boring. If this goes on we will soon have sub categories in the omega category or even a class beyond omega. Probably named Beyond...

[Malachi]

About Warren, I'd say the Archangel form/wings were an upgrade superior to Beat's animalistic form. He can go back to it whenever, apparently. I wish he still had the light wings though. A healer is always good.

Absolutely on the wings. Beast had a short period were he was much stronger then he is now but in general the wings are a bigger boon. Netiher Warren or Hank's power change changes their basic powerset though. Agility&strength for Hank and flight for Warren. Of course I'm not forgetting that Warren got his knives/feathers, which are underused. Maybe they could be tweaked so he could use them to do something that works on almost every foe. Even if it is just paralysis it opens up many different combinations with others.

[Zero Hunter]

Ideally the concept of omega level mutants should be done away with and I believe all mutants should have a cap on their power levels. They reach a certain point and fatigue sets in, or they unleash their power in a massive way and are drained for a bit until they recover. But unfortunately the horse has left the barn and it's not coming back. To many X-fans love their faves being uber powerful and performing massive feats. Anything short of that is seen as jobbing. So we're stuck with ever expanding power levels, hell, even power damperners don't seem to exist anymore.

Oh I completely agree. This isn't Dragonball Z were power levels just keep going up and up just because until everyone is a planet killer. There should be actual stakes to pushing yourself. If Cyclops pushes himself too far he should start having vision problems or even have one of his eyes burn up. I agree if they go all out it should take them a while to really recover like weeks even before they are back to full power. If they really push themselves beyond their limits they might even run the risk of burning out their powers completely.

Setting hard limits and real consequences would force writers to come up with new interesting ways for the characters to use their powers instead of just making them more powerful.

[remydat]

Writers just arent creative anymore. Part of what makes X-men 97 so great is how creative they are. You have an Omega level mutant essentially struggling with the Gozilla sentinel but yet Gambit takes it down in a way that is quite obvious and natural if you understand his powers despite his not being Omega.

What Marvel has forgetten is that beyond a character's powers there is also their intellect or cunning. Inferior forces have defeated superior forces countless times due to their strategic or tactical expertise.

[marhawkman]

I honestly really think there needs to be a checks & balances system here.

I think Omega level is so abused and misused when it comes to Phoenix, Storm, Iceman, and Magneto. Battles they engage in now have to be so gargantuan, you can't connect with their struggles at all. It's just "oh cool, they can terraform Mars now..." I can't even conceptualize that, let alone connect with it. The sheer amount of science, alone, kills it for me when I think even remotely critically about the material. And then, as pointed out, when writers DON'T utilize characters to their most extremes like other iterations, those writers are wildly criticized, because "So and so can do WAY more than that!" Or "that character could NEVER be taken out that way!" Look at Phoenix's most recent death at the hands of Robo-Moira. It was such a laughable death, because there's no reason Jean would have ever been snuck upon in such a way by such a pedestrian-dressed person in sneakers...

I REALLY think there needs to be an official -event- that changes how mutations work. Like, they're still mutants, but humans can still out power them in some way - and they don't need ROBOTS to do it for them.

And example of resetting this - Omega shouldn't be defined as limitless power, but limitless mutant endurance - using their powers do not cause wear and tear. Alpha mutants should be defined as the most powerful, with powers that extend beyond themselves - but the more power they have / experience, they're driven to madness or their body begins to deteriorate or age rapidly (like Synch) because of the crippling weight of power itself (just like too much knowledge drives a person to madness). Etc.

There used to be RULES that kept the stakes high.

Writers have completely given up on the rules of reasonable suspension-of-disbelief in favor of a couple of cool panels of inconceivable power, taking certain characters so far out that the only thing you can do is kill them for certain times of desperation, and bring them back to show hope to weaker mutants, rinse and repeat.

It's weird, in the old days when "Mutant" was thrown around everywhere.... there was also more variety in origin stories somehow. But that's when we had the classic "mutated by" origins.

[Doom'nGloom]

I honestly really think there needs to be a checks & balances system here.

I think Omega level is so abused and misused when it comes to Phoenix, Storm, Iceman, and Magneto. Battles they engage in now have to be so gargantuan, you can't connect with their struggles at all. It's just "oh cool, they can terraform Mars now..." I can't even conceptualize that, let alone connect with it. The sheer amount of science, alone, kills it for me when I think even remotely critically about the material. And then, as pointed out, when writers DON'T utilize characters to their most extremes like other iterations, those writers are wildly criticized, because "So and so can do WAY more than that!" Or "that character could NEVER be taken out that way!" Look at Phoenix's most recent death at the hands of Robo-Moira. It was such a laughable death, because there's no reason Jean would have ever been snuck upon in such a way by such a pedestrian-dressed person in sneakers...

I REALLY think there needs to be an official -event- that changes how mutations work. Like, they're still mutants, but humans can still out power them in some way - and they don't need ROBOTS to do it for them.

And example of resetting this - Omega shouldn't be defined as limitless power, but limitless mutant endurance - using their powers do not cause wear and tear. Alpha mutants should be defined as the most powerful, with powers that extend beyond themselves - but the more power they have / experience, they're driven to madness or their body begins to deteriorate or age rapidly (like Synch) because of the crippling weight of power itself (just like too much knowledge drives a person to madness). Etc.

There used to be RULES that kept the stakes high.

Writers have completely given up on the rules of reasonable suspension-of-disbelief in favor of a couple of cool panels of inconceivable power, taking certain characters so far out that the only thing you can do is kill them for certain times of desperation, and bring them back to show hope to weaker mutants, rinse and repeat.

Power levels have turned into, forgive my language, a pissing contest among many comic fans and even some writers in recent years. When you say "x character is way to powerful" that characters fans will say "well so is y character why don't you say anything about that" without actually addressing the issue. I'm not gonna name any character or his/her fans but it happens quite a lot in these forums. I think all S-tier characters need a nerf as fighting game fans would say.

[Nicoclaws]

To be honest and maybe a bit controversial, I don't care about powers and "power levels". What matters is the personnality. Angel is kinda unique even if his power is just "flying". Same for Cyclops. Same for most of the X-men. Heck, one of the main X-character lost hers for a while and she was the team leader.