Introduce the X-Men to the MCU

[Doom'nGloom]

Fans have complained about all of those things (and more). How much complaining depends on how many people were fans of the original. Bucky the kid side, was largely a footnote in marvel history and hardly anyone cared about him until the winter solider story. So some fans complained, but the majority of fans (and most importantly casuals, ) didnÂ’t mind skipping kid sidekick Bucky and going straight to winter solider. And even if more did care, they would have been drowned out by Stucky fangirls, lol.

Maybe but it doesn't get people heated up as much as race talk. I'm willing to bet if marvel casted a latino actor for Tony (he's part latino in the ultimate universe anyways) instead of RDJ it would have generated bigger discussions than him revealing his secret identity at the end of first movie.

[ChronoRogue]

I dont mind a native Wolverine, as long as that doesnt mean Thunderbird and Forge get ignored. I want new X-Men members on Marvel's reboot, instead of the same old, same old. Add some fresh characters with comics roots, and Ive been wanting a native american x-member on the movies for a very long time, so Marvel Studios has no excuses this time, with such a rich and diverse team/property.

It will mean they get ignored, which is why I don't want it. That and the endless amount of complaining that will happen, which could just be avoided by focusing on actual POC characters. (well, some people will complain regardless but those are the people with tin-foil hats) Plus you are introducing an identity that has never been acknowledged or explored in the comics, which is just... no.

The MCU should use the underserved POC we have in the comics in the movies, that way hopefully the exposure will help them in other media (ie comics, games, etc..).

Something like Wolverine, Storm, Nightcrawler, Psylocke (Kwannon), Sunfire, Thunderbird, Colossus, Banshee, and Cecelia Reyes as the MCU version of the ANAD would be nice.

As for the MCU changing things beyond race, as long as the more important things remain intact I don't care, it's an adaptation so some things are going to change. The reason I would rather race wouldn't is because it's a strong visual indicator of the character and I'd argue race influences a characters identity and self-perception. The MCU and Sony have definitely race-swapped before, ala Nick Fury and Valkyrie, but it's usually minor characters people are not as emotionally attached to so fewer people have a predisposed image of their identity or character. The bigger the character, the more solidified identity people will have them and the more complaining we'll get.

I'm not a Human Torch fan at all and I struggled to see Michael B. Jordan in the FF (2015) remake as him. It also frustrated me to no end that Sunspot in the New Mutants (2020) was not afro-brazilian, which my quotes on the film might still be on this forum, so it goes both ways.

[Cable2X]

I don't know why some people draw the line at race when other aspects of the characters are changed in movies all the time. Iron man was known to be Tony's bodyguard, Bucky wasn't an adult when he joined the war, Hank and Janet were founding members instead of Clint and Nat, Hela wasn't a sister of Thor etc. If there is a problem with changing the race of a character then there should be a problem with all of these.

It has to do with the iconic look of a character, and this is very important given that comics are a visual medium. A green suited Spiderman would be very weird to me, and equally, a Hispanic Cyclops would seem weird to me too. I would probably skip the movie/series if Disney went down this route.

I get that many don’t understand this, although I don’t understand how it doesn’t matter to you guys, but in the end, as others have mentioned, I’m free to not watch it.

[BobbysWorld]

I'd argue that for many of the people who are most vocal about hating when characters they perceive as white aren't played by someone white in a movie - it has nothing to do with comics being a visual medium because the same word for word arguments pop up in regards to movies based on all kinds of source material. Not just comic books. For example, I remember when The Hunger Games movies came out, and a lot of fans could not stop bitching and moaning about Rue being played by Amandla Stenberg, who is black. When will the race swapping end, they cried out in high dudgeon.

Only to just be like new number, who dis, when Suzanne Collins, who wrote The Hunger Games novels, responded in an interview that she didn't know what these fans were on, as she quoted the multiple times Rue is described in her novels as having dark brown skin.

That is not the only time something like that has happened, and yet mysteriously, the fans who are so angry about roles they perceive as white going to an actor of color, never seem to have much to say when its made explicitly apparent that there's not an ounce of basis or justification for their complaints even according to their own logic - that their upset about these castings come entirely from their biases and not a single thing else.

So there's a very huge precedent established for complaints about race-swapping and even 'whoops turned out to not actually even be race-swapping just poor reading comprehension', to be impossible to limit to something as innocent as people just being thrown by a figure onscreen not matching that of the same figure in comics because of iconic looks and visual mediums. Even if that's sometimes SOME peoples' reason and nothing else, there's very clearly a lot more at work in the widespread and vehement nature of these backlashes every single time this comes up....than that particular explanation. Especially when you factor in the nature of comics and how many supposedly iconic appearances are rendered DRAMATICALLY different across the many decades they've been drawn by different artists.

When characters who are DEFINITELY supposed to be blond according to how some artists depict them are just as often depicted as brown-haired, and yet inexplicably fans of both the brown-haired and blond-haired versions of a white character can relatively easily make their peace with that character being played by a black-haired actor, but people erupt in arms if a Greek character with black hair and a tan throughout most of their comic book appearances is fancast with an actor who has black hair and a tan but also happens to be Latino rather than Greek....in which case the fact that the actor still looks a great deal like how that character is most commonly depicted in comics is now deemed largely irrelevant because that fancaster is trying to make things all POLITICAL, see, why else would they cast a Latino actor as a Greek character even though most people would be hard-pressed to say what about the Latino actor's appearance is just absolutely incompatible with how the Greek character is usually depicted in comics....

I see this kind of double standard applied everywhere in these arguments.

So I can understand and appreciate that people who make arguments or express opinions on casting choices that happen to contain similar reasoning to what others claim even while those others are being totally disingenuous about their ACTUAL reasons for objecting so damn hard to casting directors NOT feeling honorbound to replicate the decision-making criteria of people who created characters sixty years ago when social priorities were quite different than today....*

I can understand and acknowledge that people using similar lines of debate are not actually a monolith and speaking for each other, so I don't just assume everyone saying such things is being disingenuous about their motivations and some truly should be taken at face value.

BUT. But but but.

My bigger problem with these kinds of arguments tends to be when people can't seem to apply the same logic in reverse. Like, its one thing to uphold your own personal reasons for not wanting to see a white character played by an actor of color and be like look, this is just my personal preference based on this reason, etc.....but the thing that bugs me is when people speaking only for their own reasoning still act like that same reasoning is the obvious explanation for how and why these arguments occur SO frequently across the internet.

Like 'look, its not that deep, this is why this happens and there's nothing malicious about the fact that half of the people who live and die by the fact that Wolverine was supposed to be SHORT and also UGLY in the comics can sell out when he's played by six foot tall People Magazine's Sexiest Man of the Year Hugh Jackman, but if you dare try and suggest a black actor play a white character you might as well just take a time machine and go attack someone's childhood personally.'

I mean, I hyperbolize in the name of being a bit tongue and cheek about an obviously heated topic, but you get what I mean. Not all people are speaking their actual mind when speaking the same lines as others, is all I'm saying, and surely none of us are oblivious to that. When quite a lot of racist people do quite a lot of loud rabble-rousing in these kinds of arguments and nobody's actually stupid enough to think this ISN'T a factor in how controversial race-swapping debates are in general, I don't think anything of merit can actually be discussed on the topic if people can't even acknowledge that racism is an overall presence in these arguments, even if its not a PERSONAL factor for why you as an individual happen to make your own personal argument.

But hey I mean maybe I just don't get it. I could just be dumb. After all, I'm still confused on why people yell so loudly about how fantasy movies are ruined by casting black people in medieval settings because this breaks the illusion of the film being historically accurate, but meanwhile the fire-breathing magical dragons in the same movie definitely don't suggest that said film MIGHT not actually be meant as a one hundred percent completely accurate representation of life in the small kingdom of SomethingBritishy.

[BobbysWorld]

* I bring up the context of social priorities of the time of a character's initial creation as I feel its one hundred percent relevant, and people have a tendency to be hella hypocritical about acting like the creators' initial vision of a character is sacrosanct and should be respected at all costs and its not our place to judge creators who lived in different times and try to override their creative choices with our own political correctness and blah blah blah anyway that's why characters created as straight white men should only be played by straight white men even if the only reason they were created as straight white men is that's the only kind of superhero publishers were actually interested in publishing and readers interested in buying fifty years ago or whatever.....

Cuz see, the problem I have HERE is like....what I wanna know is why it neeeeeever really gets talked about then, in convos about respecting a creator's initial view of an iconic character....that sometimes, we actually have a VERY CLEAR VIEW of times when iconic characters' actual creators had an explicitly different view of the characters they were writing than what actually made it onto the published page. Take for instance, the very obvious example of Superman. Who was created by Jewish creators, who emigrated to the US to escape from antisemitism, at a time where even though things were better for them in the US, the US was still fairly antisemitic as well, to such an extent that the Jewish creators might have been able to get a publisher to buy and print and sell their stories about Superman....but that didn't mean they were ever going to be able in the context of their historical settings, to get a publisher to buy and print and sell their stories about Superman....if they insisted on making Superman Jewish, or even raised by Jewish parents instead of the wholesome apple pie making farmer Ma and Pa Kent from the heartland of the good old US of A.

Like, I mean, read the stories, read the interviews, read the behind the scenes stuff.....it is one hundred percent very well established that everything about Superman on a conceptual level was inspired by his creators' personal faith, ethnicity, and life experiences when fleeing from persecution based on all of the above. Superman was clearly coded as a Jewish superhero from day one, with his origin story making him an explicit Moses analog. But the 'creators' intent for their iconic characters must be respected' arguments somehow never manage to take into account that throughout their history, comic books have been written by and added to by writers and artists from all kinds of marginalized communities and backgrounds. This breadth of diversity in comic book creators is NOT proportionately reflected in the catalog of their various iconic creations and contributions to the medium, and do people know why that is?

Cuz if anyone actually thinks the reason so many iconic straight white Christian superheroes were created by even creators who themselves were not straight or white or Christian, especially in times previous, when it was even harder than it is today for marginalized creators to get publisher backing for stories focusing on characters who are anything other than straight white and Christian, like if anyone's out here just taking for granted that this is because like, nothing's more inspiring to marginalized creators writing stories about injustice and persecution than the experiences and identities of straight white dudes?

Umm. Like. I hate to have to be the one to inform anyone, but turns out, most marginalized creators' first natural instinct upon inventing superheroes who can fight back against the very kind of oppression and persecution many of them experienced in their own personal lives.....is NOT to view themselves or loved ones who share their identities/experiences as impossible to imagine as figures who can stand up for themselves when fighting forces of injustice. Nah, its absolutely one hundred percent natural for them to just go y'know what, actually I don't think anyone could ever really represent and embody the messages I'm trying to write about and protect people like me.....better than straight white Christian dudes from the US.

Nope. The only reason SO DAMN MANY of comic books' beloved and iconic superheroes are straight white Christian men who only by way of coded traits or plausible deniability reflect the identities/experiences of the many creatives who were Jewish, queer, PoC, etc, contributing to the medium for literal decades before the portfolio of iconic comic book heroes even started to contain heroes who more directly reflected them.....is because the intent of the publishers of times past, and readerships, matters just as much as that of the creators. And for countless decades, the only way many creatives were even able to GET most of their work published....was by putting less of themselves in their work, or at least making those parts less visible or secretly coded for those who would pick up on the between the lines references. Because over and over they were told, 'we're not going to publish that. We're not going to buy that. Nobody is going to want to read that. Make it about these other people who are less like you, because that's what most readers are, and they're certainly not going to try and relate to people who don't look like them, so if you want this paycheck, make these characters born directly of yourselves and what you've lived through more like them instead.'

And yet. Like I said, oh so mysteriously......over and over we hear about how Wolverine and Cyclops and Batman and Flash can't be anything other than white because these are iconic white characters, that's how they were created, what they're intended to be, that's what they're meant to be read/viewed as, and if people want characters who reflect other identities and experiences, well then creators need to get creating characters that have other identities and experiences.

Yet I'm still waiting for those people to put forth that same energy about how the next Superman casting should be Jewish, etc.....because this figure of the iconic straight white Christian boy raised to be visibly representative of the ideal American man of the time.....was still only what his publishers ALLOWED him to be. His creators? What they intended, how they meant Kal-El to be read and viewed if it were wholly up to them? We know damn well what that was meant to be, and its why there's decades of academic writings on the extent to which Superman is steeped in Jewish history, culture and symbology, as opposed to how he's clearly nothing more than a 20th century riff on Paul Bunyan.

[ChronoRogue]

I don't know if I buy that most of the creators of yesteryear intended to create diverse casts.

Did some? Sure, like CC I can buy because he was clearly put Storm front and center and he did a lot of heavy-lifting in introducing a ton of pivotal female characters (I won't say it was perfect because outside of Storm, he wrote mostly a white cast).

But most creators? Eh, even Stan Lee who created the X-Men has gone on record of not being comfortable with race-bending a character's identity. (though he did seem to back-track a bit on that shortly before his death)

[Exodus]

I don't know if I buy that most of the creators of yesteryear intended to create diverse casts.

Did some? Sure, like CC I can buy because he was clearly put Storm front and center and he did a lot of heavy-lifting in introducing a ton of pivotal female characters (I won't say it was perfect because outside of Storm, he wrote mostly a white cast).

But most creators? Eh, even Stan Lee who created the X-Men has gone on record of not being comfortable with race-bending a character's identity. (though he did seem to back-track a bit on that shortly before his death)

Don't forget Claremont's New Mutants.

[ChronoRogue]

Don't forget Claremont's New Mutants.

That is true, I did forget about them lol. But for the mainline titles, it was very white even when introducing new characters. (Rogue, Rachel, Betsy, Longshot, Dazzler, etc...)

[Harasar]

I think the character whose race and origin is easiest to change and adapt to modern time is Dazzler - make he Korean K-Pop superstar instead of British disco star.

Among the O5 only Angel's race can't be changed. Him being a heir of white rich family is a part of his origin, and IIRC he chose codename "Angel" not only because of wings, but also because he is like a biblical angel - extremely handsome guy with blond hair and blue eyes. Cyclops' race is easiest to change. His family lived in Alaska for generations, so he could be made partially Inuit on either side of his parents, especially Katherine, since nothing is known about her other than name and how she died.

On the other hand, I think there is no need to use anyone from the O5 in MCU, because they kind of feel like a cheap, weaker version of Avengers. Beast is super-strong, and genius, who suffered in result of his own experiment; so, he is like Hulk, but weaker. All of Jean's powers were used by Wanda, and her most well-known story is similar to Wanda's story as well - woman with powers she can't fully control that causes a big incident. Angel is like Falcon, but not as trained, and don't use weapons, so all he can do is fly around enemies. Cyclops' personality is similar to Captain America and his optic blasts are quite similar to Iron Man various laser weapons, but he can't fly. Iceman is the only one, whose powers weren't utilized in MCU, but his personality is quite similar to various other jokesters like Ant-Man, Star-Lord, etc.

Personally, I think that there is no need to utilize O5 at all, Xavier and Magneto are also unnecessary. In comics the reason why so many mutants started to appear in 20 century was because of development and utilization of nuclear weapons. Change it to Snap instead, and introduction of mutants becomes simple. Some mutants were born in previous centuries here and there, but the Snap greatly accelerated humanity evolution. Multiple new mutants appeared after it, but still not too many. Since mutation manifests during puberty, all these characters were too young right after the Snap. Some of them became criminals, while others gather together under the common thought of becoming the next-generation of heroes, inspired by the Avengers many of whom died trying to protect the world from Thanos. Five years later, the two additional snaps cause the manifestation of thousands of new mutants all around the world. By this time the first wave of mutants is already around 20 years old, so they form the X-Men to help new mutants with their powers and protect the world from mutant criminals and other villains. Use some of the big names with ties to wider Marvel universe like Storm, Rogue, Psylocke, Wolverine, and add members of younger generations - New Mutants, Generation X, Academy X.

[gonnagiveittoya]

No way in hell the MCU doesn't use the mainstays of the X-Men. Cyclops finally being a leader, Angel being an actual member of the X-Men, there's a lot of stuff they can do with the 05, aside from obviously Dark Phoenix.

[WallStreeter]

No way in hell the MCU doesn't use the mainstays of the X-Men. Cyclops finally being a leader, Angel being an actual member of the X-Men, there's a lot of stuff they can do with the 05, aside from obviously Dark Phoenix.

Pretty sure MCU will not use the o5 as a team. The first Avengers movie replaced WASP and Ant Man with the Black Widow and Hawkeye. It was a line up similar, but mot the same as the original team.

Even the time displaced o5 where shown as either
Members of other teams or they had other teenage mutants join them. Plus they changed the adults they worked with.

[Kurt LeBeau]

Feige is on director search mode, so time to get excited, yall. Announcement this year more likely now??

https://twitter.com/mainmiddleman/st...276544514?s=20

[Gnostic]

Feige is on director search mode, so time to get excited, yall. Announcement this year more likely now??

https://twitter.com/mainmiddleman/st...276544514?s=20

Apparently that source said that Mark Wahlberg will play Wolverine.

EDIT: Looked him up and seems like BS.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelStudi...eb2x&context=3

[TheRay]

Easy.
Professor X contacts The Scarlet Witch regarding Magneto.

[CosmiComic]

Apparently that source said that Mark Wahlberg will play Wolverine.

EDIT: Looked him up and seems like BS.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelStudi...eb2x&context=3

That's probably the most easily debunkable rumor . No way is Marky Mark playing Logan

Easy.
Professor X contacts The Scarlet Witch regarding Magneto.

I don't see that happening.