Introduce the X-Men to the MCU

[Refrax5]

Yes, I think the show was better off for that too. It helped that the show mostly focused on the teens so it was easy to not highlight Wolverine so much even if Storm suffered as a result.

Ironically, that's one of the versions of Wolverine I liked.

[whitecrown]

Ironically, that's one of the versions of Wolverine I liked.

I thought he was okay but a little too much into the background and didn't have strong relationships with anyone like he does in the comics or movies. I think his best media portrayals have been in the movies and TAS, even if in the former that was at a cost to other characters. Something I noticed in the movies is that outside of Xavier and Magneto, if you were a character closely connected to Logan, you were still better off than the rest. So Jean and Rogue in particular (and Bobby through Rogue and his screentime with Logan in X2) were sorta elevated by him.

[Refrax5]

I thought he was okay but a little too much into the background and didn't have strong relationships with anyone like he does in the comics or movies. I think his best media portrayals have been in the movies and TAS, even if in the former that was at a cost to other characters. Something I noticed in the movies is that outside of Xavier and Magneto, if you were a character closely connected to Logan, you were still better off than the rest. So Jean and Rogue in particular (and Bobby through Rogue and his screentime with Logan in X2) were sorta elevated by him.

I'm pretty lukewarm on the movie Wolverine. He felt a little too leading man pretty and lacking the danger of the comics character, although he retained some of the character's less likable qualities.

The original TAS version of the character has always been maybe my favorite because I found him very sympathetic in that one, as well as probably the funniest character in the show. He was unpredictable and nuts, but I felt like they played it in a "wow, this guy is crazy as ****" way rather than a glorified macho, cocky douche way like some versions do.

[whitecrown]

I'm pretty lukewarm on the movie Wolverine. He felt a little too leading man pretty and lacking the danger of the comics character, although he retained some of the character's less likable qualities.

The original TAS version of the character has always been maybe my favorite because I found him very sympathetic in that one, as well as probably the funniest character in the show. He was unpredictable and nuts, but I felt like they played it in a "wow, this guy is crazy as ****" way rather than a glorified macho, cocky douche way like some versions do.

TAS version feels closest to the comic version. Somewhat unhinged and prone to berserker rage at a moment's notice. Also grates from authority and being told what to do. Very close to how he was depicted in his debut in UXM before the brown and tan costume, before Japan and his miniseries, etc.

The movie version had to play it safe to make him more sympathetic and more of a charismatic leading man. But the movies were also heavily influenced by the cartoon. I think Bryan Singer said that he used the show for inspiration. Wolverine being the most popular character in the comics and show meant that he was always going to be given the main spotlight in the films. And I've read a lot of drafts of X-Men films and they pretty much always have Wolverine as the main POV character. Like one script where the X-Men were the O5 but Wolverine would join them and Magneto and his Brotherhood were after him too. That one did a decent job of keeping the whole team fleshed out except for Angel who was more or less a background character and replaced by Wolverine. But even then, it was obvious that Wolverine was the lead. Scott was similar to how he was portrayed in the X-Men movie we got, but slightly better.

The script that probably did the best job at giving everyone a chance to shine was James Cameron's early 90s script which I think even Claremont was involved in or was pushing for. Kitty was the main POV character although there's a whole sequence of the film where the X-Men (Scott, Jean, Kurt, and Jason/Mastermind who is written like Pyro in the sense that he defects from the team) are captured and Wolverine/Kitty become the main focus. However, overall that script did a better job of focusing on the entire team ensemble rather than just focusing on Wolverine even if he gets quite a bit of spotlight since he's Wolverine.

[Refrax5]

TAS version feels closest to the comic version. Somewhat unhinged and prone to berserker rage at a moment's notice. Also grates from authority and being told what to do. Very close to how he was depicted in his debut in UXM before the brown and tan costume, before Japan and his miniseries, etc.

The movie version had to play it safe to make him more sympathetic and more of a charismatic leading man. But the movies were also heavily influenced by the cartoon. I think Bryan Singer said that he used the show for inspiration. Wolverine being the most popular character in the comics and show meant that he was always going to be given the main spotlight in the films. And I've read a lot of drafts of X-Men films and they pretty much always have Wolverine as the main POV character. Like one script where the X-Men were the O5 but Wolverine would join them and Magneto and his Brotherhood were after him too. That one did a decent job of keeping the whole team fleshed out except for Angel who was more or less a background character and replaced by Wolverine. But even then, it was obvious that Wolverine was the lead. Scott was similar to how he was portrayed in the X-Men movie we got, but slightly better.

The script that probably did the best job at giving everyone a chance to shine was James Cameron's early 90s script which I think even Claremont was involved in or was pushing for. Kitty was the main POV character although there's a whole sequence of the film where the X-Men (Scott, Jean, Kurt, and Jason/Mastermind who is written like Pyro in the sense that he defects from the team) are captured and Wolverine/Kitty become the main focus. However, overall that script did a better job of focusing on the entire team ensemble rather than just focusing on Wolverine even if he gets quite a bit of spotlight since he's Wolverine.

I understood Singer using Logan as the POV character in the first movie. I remember him talking about it at the time and the reasoning made sense. I think they played him more leading man, but that almost made him less sympathetic to me. He seemed liked tortures and damaged and more just like an arrogant bully. The animated Logan was genuinely messed up rather than "macho cool guy" so his outbursts felt more scary and like he genuinely couldn't control himself. He was a darker, more complex charecter.

Jackman just felt like kind of a dick in the first two movies. He decides he's in love with Jean after knowing her a total of a few days across three movies and also decides to start trouble with Cyclops, who has done nothing but save him and Rogue and politely try to shake his hand. Wolverine hasn't heard Cyclops speak, Scott has done nothing but try to be helpful and polite, and Logan is immediately trying to bang his girlfriend and asking her how she puts up with him. Anybody in Scott's shoes would hate that clown.

[Android 17]

Got it. I must not go to smart enough parties or events. It’s all good, though. I can appreciate dumb fun enough for all of us.

I'll appreciate it with ya Jack.

#LFG!!!!

[Jackraow21]

Thanks. I’ll buy the popcorn buckets if you get the coke!

[Android 17]

Thanks. I’ll buy the popcorn buckets if you get the coke!

That Forrest Bump or White Girl, Interrupted?

[whitecrown]

I understood Singer using Logan as the POV character in the first movie. I remember him talking about it at the time and the reasoning made sense. I think they played him more leading man, but that almost made him less sympathetic to me. He seemed liked tortures and damaged and more just like an arrogant bully. The animated Logan was genuinely messed up rather than "macho cool guy" so his outbursts felt more scary and like he genuinely couldn't control himself. He was a darker, more complex charecter.

Jackman just felt like kind of a dick in the first two movies. He decides he's in love with Jean after knowing her a total of a few days across three movies and also decides to start trouble with Cyclops, who has done nothing but save him and Rogue and politely try to shake his hand. Wolverine hasn't heard Cyclops speak, Scott has done nothing but try to be helpful and polite, and Logan is immediately trying to bang his girlfriend and asking her how she puts up with him. Anybody in Scott's shoes would hate that clown.

The animated version skewed closer to how Byrne viewed Wolverine. As a character who could be easily set off by anything and brutally eviscerate them. How Kitty could be humming one day and that could trigger Wolverine and the X-Men would come in to find her dead body. And in Byrne's Elsewhen, we see that Nightcrawler kisses Wolverine and that sets him off in a frenzy. That was something Jim Shooter didn't approve of because he didn't think such any character that dangerous would be trusted or sympathetic so he ordered Claremont to tone down Wolverine's depiction in the comics.

I don't think Logan coming across as a dick was that far off from the comics (and for movie fans, it would be Scott who came across as one since Wolverine was the kewl guy). Wolverine was always a loner. In the comics, he agrees to join the X-Men but he keeps himself extremely aloof with everyone else, to the point that nobody knows his claws are actually a part of him or what his real name is. If he's only bugging them during missions, it's because he only bothers to interact with them then. In the movies, he has zero desire to be part of the team but is forced to stick around for Rogue, because he cares for her, and because Xavier basically bribes him by promising to look into his memories. Scott represents everything he would detest, as the dutiful boy scout who actually believes in Xavier's mission, and so there's the added incentive of messing with him by hitting on his girlfriend. As for how realistic Logan's love is for Jean, I don't think that's far off from how most relationships are characterized in Hollywood films particularly between two rather attractive people. The movies always primed Logan as Jean's main love interest. Even if they haven't known each other long, it was obvious enough that in X2, Mystique could shapeshift into Jean to mess with him. And in a deleted scene for Logan, you even have Xavier more or less shipping Logan and Jean. At the dinner table with the family they're staying with, Logan is asked if he's ever married and Xavier answers yes, that Logan and Jean were married. And there was another deleted scene (not on the Blu-Ray) where Laura would see Logan's picture of Jean and ask if that's her mother.

[ChildOfTheAtom]

I'm betting when we get the MCU X-men finally that's precisely what they'll do. Like the new cartoon. Wolverine will be used sparingly, and many will cheer. Good things come to those who wait.

For now, though... I'm taking a victory lap.

as long as he has his own franchise he should be fine..

[ChildOfTheAtom]

I understood Singer using Logan as the POV character in the first.

he really only wanted to be an X-MAN in dofp the rest of the movies he couldn’t care less about the team outside of jean and charles

[Android 17]

That's the thing with Wolverine, will he get some solos in the MCU? More than likely (I really want to see live action Hulk vs Wolverine).

But this time around when he's with the X-Men, just balance him out and don't have him take priority over the others like the Fox movies did for 24 years. Give each mutant some time to shine without always going to the Wolverine well, and things will be gravy.

[ChildOfTheAtom]

That's the thing with Wolverine, will he get some solos in the MCU? More than likely (I really want to see live action Hulk vs Wolverine).

But this time around when he's with the X-Men, just balance him out and don't have him take priority over the others like the Fox movies did for 24 years. Give each mutant some time to shine without always going to the Wolverine well, and things will be gravy.

i expect him to be an avenger as well as deadpool 4 and spider-man 5.. hulk vs wolverine etc etc

[whitecrown]

i expect him to be an avenger as well as deadpool 4 and spider-man 5.. hulk vs wolverine etc etc

Yeah, there will definitely be a Spider-Man and Wolverine team-up. Not to mention Spider-Man and Deadpool.

[Refrax5]

The animated version skewed closer to how Byrne viewed Wolverine. As a character who could be easily set off by anything and brutally eviscerate them. How Kitty could be humming one day and that could trigger Wolverine and the X-Men would come in to find her dead body. And in Byrne's Elsewhen, we see that Nightcrawler kisses Wolverine and that sets him off in a frenzy. That was something Jim Shooter didn't approve of because he didn't think such any character that dangerous would be trusted or sympathetic so he ordered Claremont to tone down Wolverine's depiction in the comics.

I don't think Logan coming across as a dick was that far off from the comics (and for movie fans, it would be Scott who came across as one since Wolverine was the kewl guy). Wolverine was always a loner. In the comics, he agrees to join the X-Men but he keeps himself extremely aloof with everyone else, to the point that nobody knows his claws are actually a part of him or what his real name is. If he's only bugging them during missions, it's because he only bothers to interact with them then. In the movies, he has zero desire to be part of the team but is forced to stick around for Rogue, because he cares for her, and because Xavier basically bribes him by promising to look into his memories. Scott represents everything he would detest, as the dutiful boy scout who actually believes in Xavier's mission, and so there's the added incentive of messing with him by hitting on his girlfriend. As for how realistic Logan's love is for Jean, I don't think that's far off from how most relationships are characterized in Hollywood films particularly between two rather attractive people. The movies always primed Logan as Jean's main love interest. Even if they haven't known each other long, it was obvious enough that in X2, Mystique could shapeshift into Jean to mess with him. And in a deleted scene for Logan, you even have Xavier more or less shipping Logan and Jean. At the dinner table with the family they're staying with, Logan is asked if he's ever married and Xavier answers yes, that Logan and Jean were married. And there was another deleted scene (not on the Blu-Ray) where Laura would see Logan's picture of Jean and ask if that's her mother.

I think movie fans thinking Wolverine is a cool guy for being a gigantic ass to some guy who did absolutely nothing to him that he barely knows is part of the problem with people. Being an aggressive, arrogant bully that treats women like a prize to be won is somehow celebrated in American culture. It's about the most shallow, moronic, shitty view of "cool." He didn't even know the guy and he treated him like **** for no reason? Yeah, anyone who's on his side is an ass too.

And the movie version is drastically different from the comics version. There's no torment or complexity or instability to the character. He comes off as an arrogant prick, not somebody genuinely unstable and prone to animal rage. He's a jerk even when he's perfectly calm. They both watered him down and made him less sympathetic.