Wonder Woman - General Discussion

[LordUltimus]

The film made nearly $90 million in DVD/Bluray sales. That tells me that people did enjoy the film. I assume people don't buy physical media for movies they don't like. Suicide Squad also did better on Netflix than The Suicide Squad even though they were released on the same day. Again, if the audience likes the film more, then why isn't the audience watching the film they allegedly like more? Less audience at the box office, less audience in physical media, and less audience on Netflix. That doesn't tell me that The Suicide Squad is the more liked film by the audience.

Both of you keep saying how unliked the first Suicide Squad was, yet the audience habits don't agree with you.

Additionally, I can't find any mention of Peacemaker being one of the most worn costumes for 2021. Unless one of you can provide me a link, this says the audience of this allegedly better-received film chose not to watch it in a variety of media, and they didn't even buy the merchandise/costume of the most popular character from the film.

Also, according to this Forbes article, The Suicide Squad dropped a "record" 71%. https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottme...h=7d26ae2445e8

Again, how is The Suicide Squad the more well-received film by the audience when all of its metrics show the audience largely ignored or disliked it?

Dark Knight Returns made more than Superman II, but the latter is regarded as better. Money doesn't apply to how well a movie is liked.

[Gaius]

The film made nearly $90 million in DVD/Bluray sales. That tells me that people did enjoy the film. I assume people don't buy physical media for movies they don't like. Suicide Squad also did better on Netflix than The Suicide Squad even though they were released on the same day. Again, if the audience likes the film more, then why isn't the audience watching the film they allegedly like more? Less audience at the box office, less audience in physical media, and less audience on Netflix. That doesn't tell me that The Suicide Squad is the more liked film by the audience.

Both of you keep saying how unliked the first Suicide Squad was, yet the audience habits don't agree with you.

Additionally, I can't find any mention of Peacemaker being one of the most worn costumes for 2021. Unless one of you can provide me a link, this says the audience of this allegedly better-received film chose not to watch it in a variety of media, and they didn't even buy the merchandise/costume of the most popular character from the film.

And you keep wanting to ignore the SS plummeting at the box office after it's first week or how it's being a cinematic punchline had an effect on that HQ movie, The Suicide Squad, and now the video game that clearly models itself after.

I personally don't care about either SS, and I'm more than happy that the video game is likely the final nail in the coffin of this franchise.

[PopQuezy]

Dark Knight Returns made more than Superman II, but the latter is regarded as better. Money doesn't apply to how well a movie is liked.

This is an odd comparison. Superman II was released in 1980. Dark Knight Rises was released in 2012. We're talking about literal decades of inflation, rising ticket prices, and premium formats like IMAX and 3D for Dark Knight Rises. I've also never heard anyone compare the two films before this moment.

And you keep wanting to ignore the SS plummeting at the box office after it's first week or how it's being a cinematic punchline had an effect on that HQ movie, The Suicide Squad, and now the video game that clearly models itself after.

I personally don't care about either SS, and I'm more than happy that the video game is likely the final nail in the coffin of this franchise.

I'm not ignoring it. Suicide Squad fail 67% in its second weekend. I posted a link earlier in this thread that The Suicide Squad dropped 71% in its second weekend. Even using the second-weekend drop as a metric, The Suicide Squad fails in comparison.

Additionally, Suicide Squad made $133 million in its first weekend. It made $325 million total at the U.S. box office. That means even after it's 67% drop - which is still lower than The Suicide Squad - the film still made $192 million in the U.S. That means even after the box office plummet and the alleged rejection of the movie from the audience that you are arguing, the movie still made more money in the U.S. alone than The Suicide Squad made worldwide.

Again, the only metric that suggests The Suicide Squad was better received than the first film is the Rotten Tomatoes score. Every other metric indicates Suicide Squad was more successful with audiences.

[Mantis-Ray]

Yeah and Ant-Man 3 made 476 million dollars yet everybody hates it.

Yes Suicide Squad 1 made money but 8 years down the line its a joke a of a movie infamous for having the worst cinematic incarnation of the Joker. The money is irrelevant at this stage especially since Ayer never got to do a sequel or anything.

Again stop bringing up the money we get it, it made more money. It doesn't matter.

[LordUltimus]

This is an odd comparison. Superman II was released in 1980. Dark Knight Rises was released in 2012. We're talking about literal decades of inflation, rising ticket prices, and premium formats like IMAX and 3D for Dark Knight Rises. I've also never heard anyone compare the two films before this moment.

I'm including inflation. Counting inflation, Superman II made $593,072,019, while Dark Knight Rises made $1,180,348,316. In fact, Dark Knight Rises ALSO beat the original Superman even accounting for inflation, since counting that Superman 1 made $1,111,063,263. And I don't hear ANYONE claim that DKR is better than Christopher Reeve.

My point is: McDonald's is the most profitable restaurant in the world. Does that make it the BEST restaurant in the world?

[PopQuezy]

Yeah and Ant-Man 3 made 476 million dollars yet everybody hates it.

Yes Suicide Squad 1 made money but 8 years down the line its a joke a of a movie infamous for having the worst cinematic incarnation of the Joker. The money is irrelevant at this stage especially since Ayer never got to do a sequel or anything.

Again stop bringing up the money we get it, it made more money. It doesn't matter.

But I'm not only bringing up the box office. I brought up Suicide Squad having a better second-week drop. I brought up Suicide Squad winning an Oscar. I brought up Suicide Squad having the same Cinemascore as The Suicide Squad. I brought up Suicide Squad's better Netflix streaming numbers. I brought up Suicide Squad's better physical media sales, which shows people like the movie enough to add the movie to their physical media collection. I brought up the merchandising sales. I brought up the popularity of Harley Quinn. You say it was the "worst cinematic incarnation of the Joker," yet the Ayer/Leto version of the Joker costume sold well for Halloween that year.

Again, besides Rotten Tomatoes, what indicator says The Suicide Squad was better received than the Suicide Squad? The fact that no one can provide any data leads me to believe there are no such metrics.

I'm not the one focusing on the box office, but people are trying to present me as focusing on the box office because there is seemingly no data to refute my points. The Suicide Squad seemingly being better received as a movie than Suicide Squad is highly overestimated. Rotten Tomatoes is the only data that suggests such a narrative.

[Gaius]

This is an odd comparison. Superman II was released in 1980. Dark Knight Rises was released in 2012. We're talking about literal decades of inflation, rising ticket prices, and premium formats like IMAX and 3D for Dark Knight Rises. I've also never heard anyone compare the two films before this moment.



I'm not ignoring it. Suicide Squad fail 67% in its second weekend. I posted a link earlier in this thread that The Suicide Squad dropped 71% in its second weekend. Even using the second-weekend drop as a metric, The Suicide Squad fails in comparison.

Additionally, Suicide Squad made $133 million in its first weekend. It made $325 million total at the U.S. box office. That means even after it's 67% drop - which is still lower than The Suicide Squad - the film still made $192 million in the U.S. That means even after the box office plummet and the alleged rejection of the movie from the audience that you are arguing, the movie still made more money in the U.S. alone than The Suicide Squad made worldwide.

Again, the only metric that suggests The Suicide Squad was better received than the first film is the Rotten Tomatoes score. Every other metric indicates Suicide Squad was more successful with audiences.

And again, like what's been brought up. You can't remove the context of Ayer's film poisoning the well and turning off audiences to seeing more SS or related movies. If it was as loved by audiences as you suggest, why didn't that translate to it's sequel Or the HQ spinoff? Or the video game?

The Transformer movies were infamously awful but they got to five films before audiences revolted, where was that for the SS?

And that's before even getting into the film being released when Covid was still a big concern for audiences, was r-rated, and the film being released simultaneously on HBO MAX. Something not present in 2016.

[PopQuezy]

And again, like what's been brought up. You can't remove the context of Ayer's film poisoning the well and turning off audiences to seeing more SS or related movies. If it was as loved by audiences as you suggest, why didn't that translate to it's sequel Or the HQ spinoff? Or the video game?

The Transformer movies were infamously awful but they got to five films before audiences revolted, where was that for the SS?

And that's before even getting into the film being released when Covid was still a big concern for audiences and the film being released simultaneously on HBO MAX. Something not present in 2016.

And again I mentioned Wonder Woman 1984 which released before the release of the vaccine and opened with more than half of the theaters closed in the U.S. and stricter restrictions for theaters earning $1 million more than The Suicide Squad.

Godzilla vs. Kong - $470 million
Dune - $402 million
Black Widow - $379.8

All these movies had Covid and Day and Date with a streaming service. Even by these standards, The Suicide Squad was still a bomb.

You say Suicide Squad was toxic, yet it still won a People's Choice Award, Two Teen Choice Awards, and a Critics Choice Award. All things The Suicide Squad wasn't even nominated for.

Suicide Squad was also nominated for three Grammy awards. Again, an accolade The Suicide Squad failed to achieve.

Suicide Squad was not as despised as people like to imagine.

The Suicide Squad was not as beloved as people like to imagine.

[PopQuezy]

Sorry for the double post

[DisneyBoy]

So....um....

....you guys think they'll ever let Diana have her classic briefs back instead of the (useless) armored skirt?

[Agent Z]

So....um....

....you guys think they'll ever let Diana have her classic briefs back instead of the (useless) armored skirt?

I doubt it.

[Koriand'r]

The first Suicide Squad and his The Suicide Squad received the same CinemaScore from audiences which I already linked. The first Suicide Squad also did well in DVD and Bluray sales https://www.the-numbers.com/movie/Su...ad#tab=summary. It far surpassed Gunn's The Suicide Squad DVD and Bluray sales which I already linked. The first Suicde Squad was also a merchandising juggernaut, including Harley Quinn by far being the most popular costume for 2016. https://www.teenvogue.com/story/harl...oween-polyvore

The first Suicide Squad also won an Oscar for costuming and makeup.

Lets's see: the first Suicide Squad was more financially successful at the box office, more successful in DVD/Bluray sales, more successful in merchandising, and helped transform Suicide Squad into a massive IP, including two spinoffs, a sequel, an HBO Max series, a video game, and a Justice League vs. Suicide Squad comic series with one of the most popular comic book artists attached to it. It also won an Academy Award.

Yet Gunn's The Suicide Squad is more successful because it has a higher Rotten Tomatoes score.

I liked the first one better.

[Koriand'r]

So....um....

....you guys think they'll ever let Diana have her classic briefs back instead of the (useless) armored skirt?

In comics most classic costume elements come back around eventually.

[HestiasHearth]

Technically he's already done better than the likes of Zack Snyder or Patty Jenkins who have at most one well-received movie to their name (Man of Steel and Wonder Woman 1).

Once again, this sheds light on how women directors in Hollywood are treated: Jenkins has one beloved crowd-pleasing, critically acclaimed triumph with WW, but after one flop, all her post-WW films were axed, and her career has been halted. Meanwhile, Snyder has three tepidly received failures that set the stage for the death of the DCEU and he is still getting work from Netflix, while Gunn fails with TSS (which lost more than 100 million, and despite critical hosannas, still was not as raved about as the first WW), and yet he gets the keys to the DC kingdom.

[SiegePerilous02]

Once again, this sheds light on how women directors in Hollywood are treated: Jenkins has one beloved crowd-pleasing, critically acclaimed triumph with WW, but after one flop, all her post-WW films were axed, and her career has been halted. Meanwhile, Snyder has three tepidly received failures that set the stage for the death of the DCEU and he is still getting work from Netflix, while Gunn fails with TSS (which lost more than 100 million, and despite critical hosannas, still was not as raved about as the first WW), and yet he gets the keys to the DC kingdom.

Jenkins also wrote and directed Monster, which got Charlize Theron an Oscar. 2/3 of her directed movies were well received and even WW84 wasn't the same level of joke that BvS was.

It does suck. Rebel Moon also proves that Snyder being "meh" had little to do with any studio interference.