Wonder Woman - General Discussion

[Primal Slayer]

After reading Revenge of the Gods and Knight Terrors, I think it's an editorial mandate to keep Diana's origin as the Daughter of Zeus.
We can tell that Cloonrad have tried to avoid the whole daddy Zeus thing for a long time, but suddenly for the Revenge of the Gods event, they bring it to the fore as visibly as possible.
G. Willow Wilson in his run twice referenced the clay origin, which makes me suspect that DC is determined to maintain the Zeus ****, and was somehow the condition imposed on GWW, Campbell and Cloonrad for the Lazarus Planet tie-in.
It's the same thing that happened with James Robinson (Jason, the gods again, etc.) after Rucka tried to undo what Azzarello imposed.
I really I don't know what to think.

It's 100% an editorial mandate. Just as creatives have tried to update Dianas costume in the past but turned down, they now have to keep Zeus as her father and can only allude to her OG origin

[Gaius]

After reading Revenge of the Gods and Knight Terrors, I think it's an editorial mandate to keep Diana's origin as the Daughter of Zeus.
We can tell that Cloonrad have tried to avoid the whole daddy Zeus thing for a long time, but suddenly for the Revenge of the Gods event, they bring it to the fore as visibly as possible.
G. Willow Wilson in his run twice referenced the clay origin, which makes me suspect that DC is determined to maintain the Zeus ****, and was somehow the condition imposed on GWW, Campbell and Cloonrad for the Lazarus Planet tie-in.
It's the same thing that happened with James Robinson (Jason, the gods again, etc.) after Rucka tried to undo what Azzarello imposed.
I really I don't know what to think.

Much as sucks to see digging their heels on a terrible decision, it makes Historia being so acclaimed even funnier given it's been the only good WW thing put out by them for a while.

[Sebastianne]

I think it is dangerous if Tom King, with his success, reputation and fame, is forced to maintain that status quo and that it is palpably shown during his run, it would end up further cementing that origin.
Something that could help a lot is that Tom King refuses to do it and not touch the subject, and on the other hand that the reboot in the DCU decides to change the origin even if it is only to show something different from what was already established by the previous administration.
If not, we'll have to deal with daddy zeus crap for the rest of our lives.

[WonderLight789]

It's 100% an editorial mandate. Just as creatives have tried to update Dianas costume in the past but turned down, they now have to keep Zeus as her father and can only allude to her OG origin

I don't know why it is an editorial mandate to keep zeus origin. What is their way of thinking.

[Vordan]

Alas it’s the adaptions that set the rules for the source material now. What you should be hoping for is that the video game does not make her Zeus’ kid. If the game and the Gunnverse go with her clay origin, DC will bring that back into canon.

[WonderLight789]

Alas it’s the adaptions that set the rules for the source material now. What you should be hoping for is that the video game does not make her Zeus’ kid. If the game and the Gunnverse go with her clay origin, DC will bring that back into canon.

What is Alas?

[Natamaxxx]

After reading Revenge of the Gods and Knight Terrors, I think it's an editorial mandate to keep Diana's origin as the Daughter of Zeus.
We can tell that Cloonrad have tried to avoid the whole daddy Zeus thing for a long time, but suddenly for the Revenge of the Gods event, they bring it to the fore as visibly as possible.
G. Willow Wilson in his run twice referenced the clay origin, which makes me suspect that DC is determined to maintain the Zeus ****, and was somehow the condition imposed on GWW, Campbell and Cloonrad for the Lazarus Planet tie-in.
It's the same thing that happened with James Robinson (Jason, the gods again, etc.) after Rucka tried to undo what Azzarello imposed.
I really I don't know what to think.

It’s been her origin for over a decade at this point. Why does nearly every thread here inevitably end up discussing this over and over again. Can we collectively just move on already?

[Sebastianne]

Alas it’s the adaptions that set the rules for the source material now. What you should be hoping for is that the video game does not make her Zeus’ kid. If the game and the Gunnverse go with her clay origin, DC will bring that back into canon.

cross our fingers

What is Alas?

"unfortunately"

[Alpha]

It’s been her origin for over a decade at this point. Why does nearly every thread here inevitably end up discussing this over and over again. Can we collectively just move on already?

Because it's a terrible idea, specially moving forward.

Wonder Woman literally being molded by her mother into what she idealizes, both from a feminist perspective and specially from a queer perspective is so powerful as an idea

[bardkeep]

It’s been her origin for over a decade at this point. Why does nearly every thread here inevitably end up discussing this over and over again. Can we collectively just move on already?

1. It's the nadir of WW canon and the one awful idea from n52 that hasn't been retconned out. And yes, it's been around for ~12 years, but the clay origin was around for 70 years.

2. You can literally see the fight on the page. Writers don't like it so they avoid the topic and add in a bunch of references to the clay origin, then editorial sweeps in and insists on leaning into Zeus.

3. Historia just threw down the gauntlet. Arguably the most popular, acclaimed take on WW lore in comics since Perez and it's built entirely around the clay origin. James Gunn has also praised and promoted it to high heaven, which he hasn't done for any other WW comic.

It's not at all set in stone because the whole reason why the Zeus origin has been so stubborn is because of movie synergy. Now we're getting a full reboot with a fresh take, including an entire TV show about the Amazons' lore. We're kind of at an inflection point where canon will bend to whatever approach the new DCU takes, and all we know is that 2 of the DCU's architects (James Gunn and Tom King) rock with the clay origin. It's really gonna come down to whether or not there's someone even higher up at WBD than James Gunn who's riding for Zeus.

[HestiasHearth]

It’s been her origin for over a decade at this point. Why does nearly every thread here inevitably end up discussing this over and over again. Can we collectively just move on already?

Because the idea of a feminist icon being "given" all her powers by a male deity that has been historically portrayed as a thoroughly misogynistic rapist who casually violates female characters whenever he is horny is horrific and makes no sense whatsoever. And all because the male powers that be at DC Comics decided that general audiences would not "relate" to a female superhero unless her superpowers were directly obtained from her daddy. WTF

[Natamaxxx]

Because it's a terrible idea, specially moving forward.

Wonder Woman literally being molded by her mother into what she idealizes, both from a feminist perspective and specially from a queer perspective is so powerful as an idea

I disagree.

I think some of you over estimate how “feminist” or “queer” (that hateful word!) her origin was. How does not having a father make her inherently feminist? Wouldn’t she be more so if she were portrayed to promote equality while demonstrating agency and empowerment through her actions rather than by default?

Besides, my issue isn’t exactly referring to the origin itself. I could take it or leave it since it doesn’t represent any of those things to me. My issue is the inevitable and tedious way most threads here are eventually led into yet another pointless circle jerk of a discussion on the subject.

[Mantis-Ray]

There is also the issue from a creative standpoint, that being the daughter of Zeus is incredibly generic as Zeus parentage is the most overused of the God parentage origins.

Being descended from literally any other God would be more interesting that Zeus. Even the DCAU arguably gets some points for implying Diana's father could be Hades which at least is a bit more atypical God to descend from.

[Alpha]

I disagree.
I think some of you over estimate how “feminist” or “queer” (that hateful word!) her origin was. How does not having a father make her inherently feminist? Wouldn’t she be more so if she were portrayed to promote equality while demonstrating agency and empowerment through her actions rather than by default?

I'm happy you brought this up and get to have this conversation calmly.

You ask why there is so much power as a feminist story in not having anybody else, specially a man like me, involved in childbirth.
She's the dream of a woman being able to have the child she wants without appeasing anyone except destiny itself (in the form of gods). It's wish fulfillment.

I don't know why you find the word "queer" hateful, I will not assume, though I will encourage you to elaborate.
Irregardless, the idea of a gay woman being able to have a child without having to find a man is quite evidently wish fulfillment no?
This doesn't mean that from both perspectives having a man like me makes it bad, but there is a unique freedom in being able to have all of that be your choice, instead of a requirement.

You also say that Diana should demonstrate equality through her actions. And she does. Steve Trevor is the guiding principle of this. He enters the story as the first man she ever meets, and clearly he is a good man. The way they come to respect each other and appreciate each other balances her dynamic with the bigger world.

Diana is also supposed to be very much guided by dreams, and thusly her being born out of one, her own existence being the result of what could only happen in a dream makes her believe in dreams.

Besides, my issue isn’t exactly referring to the origin itself. I could take it or leave it since it doesn’t represent any of those things to me. My issue is the inevitable and tedious way most threads here are eventually led into yet another pointless circle jerk of a discussion on the subject.

Because it is exactly at the heart of what Diana is. If Superman wasn't raised on a farm, and he didn't come from an dead planet, his whole thematic narrative would change.

The narrative of each Marvel hero usually explores psychology

The narrative of a DC hero usually explores ideology or philosophy

The changes you make to the narrative of each affect both these things.

[Shockingjustice]

Speaking of Fathers is it still canon that Hawaiian God adopted her? I rarely see people talk about him. Would you like it if he was brought back?