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  1. #5356
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Looks like Diana is in her classic look?
    Yeah that’s for World’s Finest
    For when my rants on the forums just arenít enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  2. #5357
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Yeah that’s for World’s Finest
    Makes me wonder if the person next to her is Nubia...

  3. #5358
    Mighty Member Sebastianne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Makes me wonder if the person next to her is Nubia...
    Is Hippolyta

  4. #5359
    Extraordinary Member Mantis-Ray's Avatar
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    Whoever she is Diana is like a good head taller than her. Thats a tall woman.

  5. #5360
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    The above is a video discussing feminist retellings of ancient Greek myths and how some attempts to modernize them don't quite work. While Wonder Woman isn't mentioned in the video, it did make me think about whether it has overall succeeded as a genuinely feminist interpretation of Greek myth, especially after the discussion of Greek myth stories being appropriated and stripped of context as discussed @41:56. In particular, I wonder how fans of Greek descent feel about it, assuming any of them have read Wonder Woman.

  6. #5361
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    Is this site accurate?

    https://www.crushingkrisis.com/crush...der-woman-1987

    It lists the narrative order of all the issues...but I can't seem to see where Perez's WW Annual #1 fits in.

  7. #5362
    Incredible Member Garrac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post


    The above is a video discussing feminist retellings of ancient Greek myths and how some attempts to modernize them don't quite work. While Wonder Woman isn't mentioned in the video, it did make me think about whether it has overall succeeded as a genuinely feminist interpretation of Greek myth, especially after the discussion of Greek myth stories being appropriated and stripped of context as discussed @41:56. In particular, I wonder how fans of Greek descent feel about it, assuming any of them have read Wonder Woman.
    Modern religious greeks care way more about the orthodox church than about the old mythology. It's like asking an iranian what does he think about modern interpretations of the Ahura Mazda...

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  9. #5364
    Incredible Member bardkeep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post


    The above is a video discussing feminist retellings of ancient Greek myths and how some attempts to modernize them don't quite work. While Wonder Woman isn't mentioned in the video, it did make me think about whether it has overall succeeded as a genuinely feminist interpretation of Greek myth, especially after the discussion of Greek myth stories being appropriated and stripped of context as discussed @41:56. In particular, I wonder how fans of Greek descent feel about it, assuming any of them have read Wonder Woman.
    If they're worried about stripping ancient myths of context, they're already SOL. The myths people talk about when harping on "mythological accuracy" aren't the original myths and in a lot of cases we don't even know what the "original" myths really were. They're all just a mix of tons of interpretations from a bunch of different places and times, smushed together into whatever story captured the Renaissance imagination and pushed the agenda of the "rational, enlightened West." They're so far from the source that the "feminist retellings" are just as (un)faithful as any other.

    Perfect example (there was actually an entire issue of Perez's run about this): The Pandora myth. Originally she was widely worshipped as an all-giving mother goddess. The story most people know today is a Christianized, whispered-down-the-lane version of Hesiod's interpretation, which itself was a mix of a bunch of different ancient tellings tailored to his misogynistic cultural prerogatives.

    And tbh the appropriation claims don't hold up. Ancient Greek religious practices (which weren't even all under one religion) weren't restricted to modern Greece - it was a MASSIVE empire that extended to modern-day Italy, Turkey, Spain, Bulgaria, Albania, etc. Plus you had people like the Etruscans who adopted Greek deities through cultural exchange and the Scythians who took on Hellenistic religious practices when they were colonized by the Greeks.

    The person who made the video was clearly well-meaning and didn't intend this, but the ethno-nationalist purism about Greek mythology follows the same mindset you see among white supremacist neo-pagans who obsess over a bogus, glorified image of the Vikings and Norse mythology so they can fabricate a shared history of whiteness that excludes Jews, Slavs, etc.

    I can understand why Greek people would get frustrated by everyone associating their national identity with fictionalized takes on ancient mythology, but that's a whole separate discussion and honestly the video reinforces it.

    I do think she makes a good point about the pitfalls of a lot of these stories, though - the women wind up having less agency because they're framed as victims, and it winds up just being the same male-centric stories told from a woman's perspective. But WW doesn't quite apply there because (A) they're not really retelling myths so much as using characters from Greek mythology to tell woman-centric stories and (B) the lore is a meta-commentary on how cultural myths get warped over time more than it is a commentary on Greek myths themselves.

  10. #5365
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    That's fantastic!

  11. #5366
    Ultimate Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post


    The above is a video discussing feminist retellings of ancient Greek myths and how some attempts to modernize them don't quite work. While Wonder Woman isn't mentioned in the video, it did make me think about whether it has overall succeeded as a genuinely feminist interpretation of Greek myth, especially after the discussion of Greek myth stories being appropriated and stripped of context as discussed @41:56. In particular, I wonder how fans of Greek descent feel about it, assuming any of them have read Wonder Woman.
    The part around 27:45 is also quite worth consideration. WHY the author is choosing to re-tell something often influences HOW they do so and might invalidate their efforts.

    In the context of comics... spin placed on the adaptation by the author of the adaptation... might have the "x in name only" effect and thus make the result of the adaptation... of no real value to anyone.

  12. #5367
    Extraordinary Member HsssH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bardkeep View Post
    If they're worried about stripping ancient myths of context, they're already SOL. The myths people talk about when harping on "mythological accuracy" aren't the original myths and in a lot of cases we don't even know what the "original" myths really were. They're all just a mix of tons of interpretations from a bunch of different places and times, smushed together into whatever story captured the Renaissance imagination and pushed the agenda of the "rational, enlightened West." They're so far from the source that the "feminist retellings" are just as (un)faithful as any other.
    It is meaningless what "the original" myths were. People obviously talk about old and popular interpretations when they talk about "mythological accuracy". And them getting smushed together or altered with passage of time is okay, thats the point. Maybe people should spend more energy on that instead of arguing about how everything is just as (un)faitfhul as anything else.

  13. #5368
    Ultimate Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    It is meaningless what "the original" myths were. People obviously talk about old and popular interpretations when they talk about "mythological accuracy". And them getting smushed together or altered with passage of time is okay, thats the point. Maybe people should spend more energy on that instead of arguing about how everything is just as (un)faitfhul as anything else.
    Umm... no.

    Respect the source material when making adaptations. If you don't... it's not an adaptation. It doesn't matter if it's 5 years old, or 5000.

    Now, yes, "original" sources are questionable. Since we know some of it was actually folk lore for decades or centuries before being written down. That's not a good reason to change it on a whim.

    If you wanna make it an OC... be honest about whether it's an OC.

  14. #5369
    Ultimate Member Gaius's Avatar
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    From Andy Diggle's Reddit AMA on Gotham by Gaslight sequel

    Hi Andy

    I saw in the solicits Wonder Woman will be appearing in Kryptonian Age and am interested in how she'll be written? I look forward to it but I hope she isn't written as a violent barbarian warrior like how most Elseworlds write her. I think that stuff does a disservice to her character
    I can't speak to any other Elseworlds version of WW ó but don't worry, that's not how we see her. In the script I describe her as a warrior-poet, a diplomat. She doesn't start fights, she finishes them; but she would always prefer to find a diplomatic solution. Violence is only ever a last resort.

    That said, she'll absolutely kick ass if she has to. Sometimes, evil must be fought.

    When the time comes, check out issue #3 and let me know how we did.

  15. #5370
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Well, that sounds like a reasonable portrayal .

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