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  1. #2791
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bardkeep View Post
    I'm the type of fan he's talking about, lol. I obviously care about her having great villains and a solid supporting cast (though I think Mel knows I totally disagree with his approach), but I like Themyscira and the Embassy as home bases much more than a fictional mortal city and I dig the cool gadgets and weapons/vehicles but they only seriously impact my enjoyment of a story when they have narrative significance, e.g. Phil Jimenez's reimagined Themyscira or the military conflict over Amazon tech in Rucka's Post-Crisis run. But I think we can all agree that magical animals are a must. You'd have to be a damn fool to not use kangas!

    Honestly demand for conventional cape stuff among WW fans is interesting to me because it's all pretty firmly rooted in SA nostalgia. As Mel said, Kanigher bogarted that entire era and stunted any development, so I can't quite suss out why someone who really digs SA conventions would be drawn to her in the first place. There's a reason why Mark Waid famously doesn't get her - dude's all about the good ol'-fashioned funnybooks, so he doesn't know what to do with a character who's never successfully fit that mold.

    The closest she has is the GA lore, but it didn't have a lot of the stuff people are talking about. Marston went all in on the cool sci-fi stuff and gave her a huge world with tons of interesting villains, but she didn't have her own city, a secret fortress, or a tight supporting cast. Her only regular locale was Paradise Island, the Diana Prince ID was paper-thin, Steve was an intentionally lame love interest, and she had an awesome supporting cast but it was a huge revolving door with Steve, the Holliday Girls, and the Amazons.

    My favorite WW stories (e.g. Historia, Gods & Mortals, Strangers in Paradise, Down to Earth/Eyes of the Gorgon) are the thoughtful epics that focus on myth meeting modernity and/or dig into Amazon lore, but if someone's going all in on classic superhero world-building I'd personally want an approach that modernizes her rich, unique GA mythos rather than one that tries to make up for her lost Silver Age.
    You are one of those fans, I'm speaking to and trying to understand better. Thank you for the recognition.

    My approach? That we need TWO monthlies - the Biden-inspired two comic solution - to showcase all that marvelous stuff we want to see in our WW comics?

    I haven't had the occasion to chat up as many older WW fans, as I have fans of Superman, Batman and Namor, ..but ran into enough at the cons, to know those guys loved ETTA! Most of them, more than even Steve Trevor! That, I must say, has been one of the biggest surprises I've had, talking to fans of the Golden Age. Etta was a fixture enough that guys, who grew up reading Golden Age WW comics in the Fifties, profess to loving Etta, because she was a fun-loving, happy warrior, ..like a side-order character out of a Western or old movie serial. I wouldn't have guessed that for anything, assured that, coming out of World War II, Col. Trevor would have been their natural favorite...

    Wrong!

    My position on the importance of Diana's friendship with (then, younger) Etta - the wonder-woman and the everywoman ..or everyperson, each finding something of the other in themselves - has been made rock solid, by what I've digested on WW, in the last half decade or so. Get these two right - the TV show and movies didn't - and what Dr. Marston hoped they would mean to us mortals, center the Wonder-narrative on that diamond, ..and you've got classic Wonder Woman, with or without kangas, Hynotas and baby-ruled planets! That, hands down, is probably the best gift Ms. Carol A. Strickland ever gave me.

    I have got to write about this woman. She is amazing... https://www.carolastrickland.com/com...ral/index.html

    As for the prospects of Wonder-town, ..the work of the current creative team, which I love, is pushing me towards favoring a super-Washington, like Stan Lee Spider-Man's New York, for Diana's hometown in MW. If you take a really good look at the Washington, DC of the Marston Era, that's the stage he was telling stories on. Ghoulish agents of Mars slithering in and out of the halls of political and military power...out of people running our war effort! Big, oversized marble monuments and gorgeous Greco-Roman architecture, everywhere...waiting to be pulverized in a battle, between Diana and whatever giant robots, malevolent gods and monsters happened to be trampling through DC, at the time! Spies, some of them god-possessed or controlled by invading aliens...everywhere! That wasn't the Washington of reality, but a weird, almost Felliniesque (sometimes), surreal parody of the Nation's Capitol that Marston and H. G. Peter crafted to bring their stories to life - the super-Washington I mentioned, ..and it was fabulous.

    I must confess to favoring that approach, regressive it may be to you, over returning to Gateway City--even over settling Diana in the American Southwest. If writers can dial back her urbanization a bit [Please. Please!] ..and bring back some of her Southwestern cowgirl charm and rugged optimism, who needs Texas, Arizona or Wyoming? Etta, even the current/new one, should standout against the X-filesy super-Washington, like a sore thumb on a desert highway. My approach, the whole point of posting that ARGUS citadel thing, would be to make Diana's Gothametropolis, ..right here in DC or Georgetown.

    I'm all for stories about Diana and Etta romping around on the Island with the Amazons, just as they did in the Golden Age--not because I'm stuck in the Golden Age, as some would have you believe. No, no, no.

    As I see it, the sisterhood of Diana and Etta, now with Dr. Minerva added [Brilliant!], ..is the narrative heart of the comic. Diana's love for Hippolyta and her Amazon sisters CAN'T be the center of it. Why? They can't be, because that would make WW's leaving the Island for Man's World...pointless? Why would she? It just doesn't work. Doesn't flow. If you get Diana and Etta and what they represent right, Dr. Minerva, the Amazons and Hippolyta will fall smoothly into place, I think. Do we need TWO monthlies to make that happen? Maybe? Maybe, not, ..but, I think we do need two Wonder Woman monthlies, to secure the present WW monthly for mainstream comic fare - superheroics, non-stop action, some comedy.

    And boys...Steve, Siggy, Batman and romance, on the side!

    My position on all of that, except for the super-Washington idea, is nothing new. I literally wrote a THREE part opinion essay, titled "Boys On The Side"...jeez Luiz. All on the blog, to read, until your eyes bleed! LOL
    Last edited by Mel Dyer; 11-29-2022 at 04:06 PM. Reason: style, content
    COMBINING THE BIGBADITUDE OF THANOS WITH CHEETAH'S FEROCITY, IS JANUS WONDER WOMAN'S GREATEST SUPERVILLAIN?...on WONDABUNGA!!! Look alive, Kangaliers!

  2. #2792
    Ultimate Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Pretty much agree with Bardkeep, no sense making up for lost time in the Silver Age.

    Though as a resident Bay Stater, I wouldn't mind Diana setting up shop in Boston again ( ). A bonus since I don't view fictional comic book cities as superior to real ones.

  3. #2793
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Pretty much agree with Bardkeep, no sense making up for lost time in the Silver Age.

    Though as a resident Bay Stater, I wouldn't mind Diana setting up shop in Boston again ( ). A bonus since I don't view fictional comic book cities as superior to real ones.
    While writing "Marston City Limits", I came to the conclusion that much of my favoring a fictional, iconic city over DC (where I live, presently) ..has been driven by seeing the impact of Gotham and Metropolis on fans and pop culture and wanting to experience that in the WW comic. All of my high-minded deconstructive speculation aside - for a lot of us, who want it, ..that's why, and it's no less a respectable reason. Favoring fantasy cities for WW doesn't mean we judge them, superior to real-world ones.

    The heart wants what it wants, ..but...Boston? What's in Boston? I love George Perez as much as the next guy, but, for the life of me...Boston? I will never understand why, of all places, he would settle Diana in Boston. I would love to hear what so many of us find appealing about Wonder Woman in Boston! How many of us see WW as an urban creature, generally speaking? Boston, New York City, Frisco...?

    Anyway...we are reading comic books, after all. In the immortal words (and gams) of Lt. Nyota Uhura, "This isn't reality. This ..is FANTASY!" LOL
    Last edited by Mel Dyer; 11-29-2022 at 04:40 PM.
    COMBINING THE BIGBADITUDE OF THANOS WITH CHEETAH'S FEROCITY, IS JANUS WONDER WOMAN'S GREATEST SUPERVILLAIN?...on WONDABUNGA!!! Look alive, Kangaliers!

  4. #2794
    Incredible Member bardkeep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Dyer View Post
    You are one of those fans, I'm speaking to and trying to understand better. Thank you for the recognition.

    My approach? That we need TWO monthlies - the Biden-inspired two comic solution - to showcase all that marvelous stuff we want to see in our WW comics?

    I haven't had the occasion to chat up as many older WW fans, as I have fans of Superman, Batman and Namor, ..but ran into enough at the cons, to know those guys loved ETTA! Most of them, more than even Steve Trevor! That, I must say, has been one of the biggest surprises I've had, talking to fans of the Golden Age. Etta was a fixture enough that guys, who grew up reading Golden Age WW comics in the Fifties, profess to loving Etta, because she was a fun-loving, happy warrior, ..like a side-order character out of a Western or old movie serial. I wouldn't have guessed that for anything, assured that, coming out of World War II, Col. Trevor would have been their natural favorite...

    Wrong!

    My position on the importance of Diana's friendship with (then, younger) Etta - the wonder-woman and the everywoman ..or everyperson, each finding something of the other in themselves - has been made rock solid, by what I've digested on WW, in the last half decade or so. Get these two right - the TV show and movies didn't - and what Dr. Marston hoped they would mean to us mortals, center the Wonder-narrative on that diamond, ..and you've got classic Wonder Woman, with or without kangas, Hynotas and baby-ruled planets! That, hands down, is probably the best gift Ms. Carol A. Strickland ever gave me.

    I have got to write about this woman. She is amazing... https://www.carolastrickland.com/com...ral/index.html

    As for the prospects of Wonder-town, ..the work of the current creative team, which I love, is pushing me towards favoring a super-Washington, like Stan Lee Spider-Man's New York, for Diana's hometown in MW. If you take a really good look at the Washington, DC of the Marston Era, that's the stage he was telling stories on. Ghoulish agents of Mars slithering in and out of the halls of political and military power...out of people running our war effort! Big, oversized marble monuments and gorgeous Greco-Roman architecture, everywhere...waiting to be pulverized in a battle, between Diana and whatever giant robots, malevolent gods and monsters happened to be trampling through DC, at the time! Spies, some of them god-possessed or controlled by invading aliens...everywhere! That wasn't the Washington of reality, but a weird, almost Felliniesque (sometimes), surreal parody of the Nation's Capitol that Marston and H. G. Peter crafted to bring their stories to life - the super-Washington I mentioned, ..and it was fabulous.

    I must confess to favoring that approach, regressive it may be to you, over returning to Gateway City--even over settling Diana in the American Southwest. If writers can dial back her urbanization a bit [Please. Please!] ..and bring back some of her Southwestern cowgirl charm and rugged optimism, who needs Texas, Arizona or Wyoming? Etta, even the current/new one, should standout against the X-filesy super-Washington, like a sore thumb on a desert highway. My approach, the whole point of posting that ARGUS citadel thing, would be to make Diana's Gothametropolis, ..right here in DC or Georgetown.

    I'm all for stories about Diana and Etta romping around on the Island with the Amazons, just as they did in the Golden Age--not because I'm stuck in the Golden Age, as some would have you believe. No, no, no.

    As I see it, the sisterhood of Diana and Etta, now with Dr. Minerva added [Brilliant!], ..is the narrative heart of the comic. Diana's love for Hippolyta and her Amazon sisters CAN'T be the center of it. Why? They can't be, because that would make WW's leaving the Island for Man's World...pointless? Why would she? It just doesn't work. Doesn't flow. If you get Diana and Etta and what they represent right, Dr. Minerva, the Amazons and Hippolyta will fall smoothly into place, I think. Do we need TWO monthlies to make that happen? Maybe? Maybe, not, ..but, I think we do need two Wonder Woman monthlies, to secure the present WW monthly for mainstream comic fare - superheroics, non-stop action, some comedy.

    And boys...Steve, Siggy, Batman and romance, on the side!

    My position on all of that, except for the super-Washington idea, is nothing new. I literally wrote a THREE part opinion essay, titled "Boys On The Side"...jeez Luiz. All on the blog, to read, until your eyes bleed! LOL
    Lol I pretty vehemently disagree with a lot of this (especially the parts about wanting more boys and Diana as a southwestern cowgirl) but I'm 100% with you on everywoman BFF Etta. Sucking the fun out of her, turning her into a military brat, and getting rid of the Holliday girls was Perez's single greatest misstep, IMO.

    I actually thought Renae De Liz's Legend of WW had the perfect modern take on Etta and the Holliday Girls. Loved Etta as the embarrassed Texan daughter of a big-headed Nathan Arizona type, loved how fun she was, loved that she stacked up to Diana with no special skills other than her cleverness and charm, loved the girls being a band like they were back in the day. It's a shame Diana was so dry.

    Not sure I follow you on your comment about how the Amazons can't be the narrative heart of the comics, though. Isn't the point that leaving the island is a sacrifice because she's leaving the people she loves most for a planet of strangers? And as much as I love Etta and wish they really focused on that relationship, I'll admit that the Amazons are probably the biggest thing that draws me to the character so I'm always gonna prefer them as the narrative and emotional core.

    Don't think anyone here would be against another monthly, though!

  5. #2795
    Extraordinary Member Primal Slayer's Avatar
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    There are some things in comics that just prove very popular with the audience and thus adapting them to all heroes is...almost a must unless you are creative enough to change it up.

    Batman is known for Gotham City. Superman is known for Metropolis. Spiderman is known for NYC, Buffy has Sunnydale. They are iconic aspects of the characters. Superman having a fortress, Bats a cave, X-Men a mansion, Spidey a basic apartment, it goes on and on on Superheroes having locations to call home, a homebase, it's something that fans remember about them.

    If Diana doesn't have a city to call home, she certainly needs some type of base that fans can grasp onto and be familiar with. Unfortunately Themiscryia is located very far away from so unless someone can find a way to have her be notified of threats from there that isnt corny...a homebase that has issues in her backyard makes the most sense.

  6. #2796
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    I want Diana to have a stable home-away-from-home, supporting cast, a well developed recurring rogues gallery and even a Wonder Girl (preferably pre-Crisis Donna) not just because other IPs have that, but because I like the examples of that stuff we have had in her book. Marston and Perez had it, and those were her highest selling eras.

    She shouldn't have a secret ID just because other heroes have it; even if we have Diana Prince, I feel like her doing away with it is a natural end point for that arc whereas losing Clark Kent doesn't really work for Superman. She shouldn't have a kid just so Damian and Jon can have a playmate.

    But a firm core cast that doesn't change every time there is a new writer and well developed villains can only help her, even if those are trends that are copy-pasted from other superheroes.

    No need for more men though. For the regulars/semi-regulars, Steve and Ferdinand and maybe whoever Steve's boss happens to be at the moment (Darnell or Michaelis) are more than enough. The main draw of this property is that most of the major roles are filled by women. I'm a dude, and I still have zero interest in seeing more dudes brought in taking up space.

  7. #2797
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    Wow. I literally typed 'Boys on the side', somewhere today. I know I didn't imagine that. LOL.

    For my money, that means the Diana-Etta-Barbara dynamic blazing, like a STAR, at the center, with menfolk - that's Col. Steve and Siggy, presently - strong as hot coffee, but always on the side...never ever central to or defining the on-going narrative.

    I think we're good-to-go on the men, right now. #793 brought in Big Blue and the Bat as guest stars, and that's fine, for what Mike and Becky did with them. I think the WW comic has enough male regulars, ..again Steve and Siggy.

    I'd buy the action figures. Col. Steve needs his own nigh indestructible TANK, though, ..and sometimes, the girls can ride! Haa'ha...

    I'd love to see the WW comic acknowledge that all black people or 'real' black people do not all come from cities or subscribe to urban culture. Roughly a third of African Americans live in small towns and rural areas, and their stories are just as deserving to be told as we, who dwell in cities.

    I don't see Wonder Woman as an urban creature or even someone, who would want to live in a big, NE American city, ..but don't see her as a cowgirl, either. One cowgirl in the corral, Etta, is enough for both of them, I am sure.

    LOL

    I agree with Primal Slayer that Diana needs some kind of interesting place to put her boots up, in MW.
    Last edited by Mel Dyer; 11-29-2022 at 07:43 PM.
    COMBINING THE BIGBADITUDE OF THANOS WITH CHEETAH'S FEROCITY, IS JANUS WONDER WOMAN'S GREATEST SUPERVILLAIN?...on WONDABUNGA!!! Look alive, Kangaliers!

  8. #2798
    Ultimate Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Slayer View Post
    There are some things in comics that just prove very popular with the audience and thus adapting them to all heroes is...almost a must unless you are creative enough to change it up.

    Batman is known for Gotham City. Superman is known for Metropolis. Spiderman is known for NYC, Buffy has Sunnydale. They are iconic aspects of the characters. Superman having a fortress, Bats a cave, X-Men a mansion, Spidey a basic apartment, it goes on and on on Superheroes having locations to call home, a homebase, it's something that fans remember about them.

    If Diana doesn't have a city to call home, she certainly needs some type of base that fans can grasp onto and be familiar with. Unfortunately Themiscryia is located very far away from so unless someone can find a way to have her be notified of threats from there that isnt corny...a homebase that has issues in her backyard makes the most sense.
    Themyscira is the unique location WW is known for, it's pretty much Smallville/Krypton roled into one.

    Another generic comicbook city among a sea of thousands isn't going to standout, at least Metropolis and Gotham have grandfather clauses to coverup their own inadequacies.

  9. #2799
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Themyscira is the unique location WW is known for, it's pretty much Smallville/Krypton roled into one.

    Another generic comicbook city among a sea of thousands isn't going to standout, at least Metropolis and Gotham have grandfather clauses to coverup their own inadequacies.
    While I agree that Diana doesn't need a fictional city to live in outside of Themyscira (for old times sake, it should be Washington D.C. or Boston), I wouldn't say Metropolis or Gotham have inadequacies as locations at all. Their distinct identities have just been developed over a way longer period, and it's way too late in the game to really establish that for Diana.

  10. #2800
    Extraordinary Member Primal Slayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Themyscira is the unique location WW is known for, it's pretty much Smallville/Krypton roled into one.

    Another generic comicbook city among a sea of thousands isn't going to standout, at least Metropolis and Gotham have grandfather clauses to coverup their own inadequacies.
    Like I said, if she doesnt have a city to call home, she needs some type of home base. If she ever were to get a tv show, unless it was high budget....she'd be put in a home base, likely one city with travel here and there.

    DC is known for their fake cities and its a huge part of a lot of their a-list heroes. It's a fact that they stand out whether someone likes it or not.

    Diana not having a city is just apart of a very long list of the problems WW has faced.
    Last edited by Primal Slayer; 11-29-2022 at 07:44 PM.

  11. #2801
    Ultimate Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    While I agree that Diana doesn't need a fictional city to live in outside of Themyscira (for old times sake, it should be Washington D.C. or Boston), I wouldn't say Metropolis or Gotham have inadequacies as locations at all. Their distinct identities have just been developed over a way longer period, and it's way too late in the game to really establish that for Diana.
    Yes, being too late in the game is why I'm not particularly invested in making a fake city for Diana. That the runs I like have just operate out of a real one (DC, Boston, NYC) are also points in their favors, so I'm only invested in one so much as gives a place for Diana's supporting cast. And even then, Rucka's Rebirth run was fairly globe-trotting so runs can work without one.

    Maybe if I read more of Supes and Bats I'd agree with Gotham and Metropolis but idk Gotham in the comics in particular always comes off more as collection of generic urban hell hole cliches. I actually think the movies and Tv (B:TAS, Burton, and the Nolan films specifically) have done more work than the comics to make Gotham actually be interesting. And those all have their own very specific takes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Slayer View Post
    Like I said, if she doesnt have a city to call home, she needs some type of home base. If she ever were to get a tv show, unless it was high budget....she'd be put in a home base, likely one city with travel here and there.

    DC is known for their fake cities and its a huge part of a lot of their a-list heroes. It's a fact that they stand out whether someone likes it or not.

    Diana not having a city is just apart of a very long list of the problems WW has faced.
    If it is, it's a low-hanging one. Especially since all the great WW runs, imo,...didn't have her in a fake city.

  12. #2802
    Extraordinary Member Primal Slayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    If it is, it's a low-hanging one. Especially since all the great WW runs, imo,...didn't have her in a fake city.
    I never said having a city makes way for great stories. You can write a great story with Superman in outerspace, doesn't take away what he's known for.

  13. #2803
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Yes, being too late in the game is why I'm not particularly invested in making a fake city for Diana. That the runs I like have just operate out of a real one (DC, Boston, NYC) are also points in their favors, so I'm only invested in one so much as gives a place for Diana's supporting cast. And even then, Rucka's Rebirth run was fairly globe-trotting so runs can work without one.

    Maybe if I read more of Supes and Bats I'd agree with Gotham and Metropolis but idk Gotham in the comics in particular always comes off more as collection of generic urban hell hole cliches. I actually think the movies and Tv (B:TAS, Burton, and the Nolan films specifically) have done more work than the comics to make Gotham actually be interesting. And those all have their own very specific takes.
    I think the urban hellhole cliches are what give it its personality. Thought yes, my formative years come from Burton and BTAS. Anton Furst's Gotham City is the golden standard for fictional superhero cities for me. Metropolis works because it can function as the equally fantastical angelic/heavenly counterpart to Gotham, and looks good when it channels a retro-futuristic vibe. Visually, stuff like Fritz Lang's Metropolis or the loosely adapted anime film of the same name provide an immersive setting that the Super books could channel.

    Personally, when it comes to fictional vs. real cities, they can all become equally generic to me, and no city setting in cape comics aside from Metropolis and Gotham really holds my interest. Diana's runs in Boston and NYC could have easily taken place in Washington D.C. and you wouldn't even notice a difference, so specific real world cities can be interchangeable as well and can be generic.

  14. #2804
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I want Diana to have a stable home-away-from-home, supporting cast, a well developed recurring rogues gallery and even a Wonder Girl (preferably pre-Crisis Donna) not just because other IPs have that, but because I like the examples of that stuff we have had in her book. Marston and Perez had it, and those were her highest selling eras.

    She shouldn't have a secret ID just because other heroes have it; even if we have Diana Prince, I feel like her doing away with it is a natural end point for that arc whereas losing Clark Kent doesn't really work for Superman. She shouldn't have a kid just so Damian and Jon can have a playmate.

    But a firm core cast that doesn't change every time there is a new writer and well developed villains can only help her, even if those are trends that are copy-pasted from other superheroes.

    No need for more men though. For the regulars/semi-regulars, Steve and Ferdinand and maybe whoever Steve's boss happens to be at the moment (Darnell or Michaelis) are more than enough. The main draw of this property is that most of the major roles are filled by women. I'm a dude, and I still have zero interest in seeing more dudes brought in taking up space.
    Yeah, I'm going to echo you on not needing more men characters, despite being a dude. I read Wonder Woman for the female characters, period. That being said, I think Mel brings this up as a way of appealing to male readers, which...I'm conflicted about. This book has historically appealed to women and queer people (I use this as an umbrella term the way it is used by my generation, though I know those from older generations may not like this word), and that's beautiful and needed and important and shouldn't be diluted to appeal to...men. Which is what 95% of the comics industry caters to anyway. However, if the thinking is to use male characters as Trojan horses to get dudes to read a feminist and queer-positive comic book starring a woman...I gueeeeeeess I can understand? I still don't think it's needed, and I reject the notion that men cannot enjoy or relate to woman characters or enjoy feminist or queer-positive fiction. But I think Mel understands Wonder Woman's appeal and isn't trying to subvert that, just maximize its reach and appreciation to the most number of people possible. I still don't think it should be an editorial mandate, but the impulse isn't unfoundeded, especially considering the discussions of the importance of representation. This particular argument, however, doesn't quite stand up to scrutiny considering the overrepresentation of men in comics and the WW's book singular status as the longest running comic book starring a lady lead. Shoving more men in a book about the number one lady superhero from a matriarchal society does a disservice to the spirit of the book. But we can agree to disagree, we all love Wonder Woman here, even when we vehemently disagree with each other.

  15. #2805
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shimbo View Post
    Yeah, I'm going to echo you on not needing more men characters, despite being a dude. I read Wonder Woman for the female characters, period. That being said, I think Mel brings this up as a way of appealing to male readers, which...I'm conflicted about. This book has historically appealed to women and queer people (I use this as an umbrella term the way it is used by my generation, though I know those from older generations may not like this word), and that's beautiful and needed and important and shouldn't be diluted to appeal to...men. Which is what 95% of the comics industry caters to anyway. However, if the thinking is to use male characters as Trojan horses to get dudes to read a feminist and queer-positive comic book starring a woman...I gueeeeeeess I can understand? I still don't think it's needed, and I reject the notion that men cannot enjoy or relate to woman characters or enjoy feminist or queer-positive fiction. But I think Mel understands Wonder Woman's appeal and isn't trying to subvert that, just maximize its reach and appreciation to the most number of people possible. I still don't think it should be an editorial mandate, but the impulse isn't unfoundeded, especially considering the discussions of the importance of representation. This particular argument, however, doesn't quite stand up to scrutiny considering the overrepresentation of men in comics and the WW's book singular status as the longest running comic book starring a lady lead. Shoving more men in a book about the number one lady superhero from a matriarchal society does a disservice to the spirit of the book. But we can agree to disagree, we all love Wonder Woman here, even when we vehemently disagree with each other.
    Yeah, I think you nailed it in that maybe there is value in appealing to those who want to see male representation in the book. But how to appeal to that without subverting the themes of the franchise, and even if you pull it off, what are the odds a read pick it up over Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, or the many other books that are already male centric?

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