Wonder Woman - General Discussion

[Primal Slayer]

She was also the main villain of the Magic path (the hero being WW, natch) in DC Universe Online, which is semi-big (at least bigger than Justice League Action, I'd say).

But yeah, Dr. Psycho is probably the third most well-known villain after Cheetah and Giganta (maybe Ares would be #3 simply because of the movie).

If you are playing DCU Online...your likely already a DC fan. Im not sure they gained that big of a new following.

[I'm a Fish]

If I had to do a full list of most popular WW villains known to the general public:

#1) Cheetah - Not even a contest. At this point she's probably the most merchandized WW character after WW herself (Barbara's got a Barbie™ ). She show's up in everything (tv shows, movies, video games, you name it she's in it), and she's fresh of the heals of a Blockbuster which just upped her status even more since people are gonna remember what's most recent.

#2) Max Lord (sorry) - Like I said, people are gonna remember what's most recent. Pedro Pascal is at the height of his career as well, which just boosted Lord even more. And personal feeling aside, the general public doesn't know his comic background has nothing to do with Diana so *cries*.

#3) Ares - Movies are the most consumed medium (tv in general), so if you're in a movie (even once) that's gonna boost you up in the public eye for a good while. Plus, Ares has been around for so long I think people just know of him in that sense.

#4) Giganta - This one is a little tough since I think Giganta is defiantly a more well known character, she might not be as well known as a WW villain in particular. But she's the second most used WW rouge after Cheetah so she's for sure up there.

#5) Dr. Psycho - He's a main character in a TV show so that boosted him up a lot. I'd say he's just a little above #6 which is -

#6) Circe - Really bums me out to put Circe this low, but frankly she really hasn't been in anything substantial outside the comics. She had "main villain for one episode" in two shows (one which was popular, though) and a decent showing in two games (though, the Injustice one was only as a cutscene). At most, I'd say the general public who's cares to remember their high school Greek mythology might naturally figure her as a WW rouge. Or maybe see comic readers on Twitter asking for her to be in Wonder Woman 3 and put two-and-two together. Of course, if she is in Wonder Woman 3, I think that will raise her up to #2 no sweat (and maybe even give Cheetah some challenge for #1 ).

-

Edit: Honestly, now that I think about it, Ludendorff and Dr. Poison might be higher up there than Circe because of the first movie...

[Largo161]

If I had to do a full list of most popular WW villains known to the general public:

#1) Cheetah - Not even a contest. At this point she's probably the most merchandized WW character after WW herself (Barbara's got a Barbie™ ). She show's up in everything (tv shows, movies, video games, you name it she's in it), and she's fresh of the heals of a Blockbuster which just upped her status even more since people are gonna remember what's most recent.

#2) Max Lord (sorry) - Like I said, people are gonna remember what's most recent. Pedro Pascal is at the height of his career as well, which just boosted Lord even more. And personal feeling aside, the general public doesn't know his comic background has nothing to do with Diana so *cries*.

#3) Ares - Movies are the most consumed medium (tv in general), so if you're in a movie (even once) that's gonna boost you up in the public eye for a good while. Plus, Ares has been around for so long I think people just know of him in that sense.

#4) Giganta - This one is a little tough since I think Giganta is defiantly a more well known character, she might not be as well known as a WW villain in particular. But she's the second most used WW rouge after Cheetah so she's for sure up there.

#5) Dr. Psycho - He's a main character in a TV show so that boosted him up a lot. I'd say he's just a little above #6 which is -

#6) Circe - Really bums me out to put Circe this low, but frankly she really hasn't been in anything substantial outside the comics. She had "main villain for one episode" in two shows (one which was popular, though) and a decent showing in two games (though, the Injustice one was only as a cutscene). At most, I'd say the general public who's cares to remember their high school Greek mythology might naturally figure her as a WW rouge. Or maybe see comic readers on Twitter asking for her to be in Wonder Woman 3 and put two-and-two together. Of course, if she is in Wonder Woman 3, I think that will raise her up to #2 no sweat (and maybe even give Cheetah some challenge for #1 ).

-

Edit: Honestly, now that I think about it, Ludendorff and Dr. Poison might be higher up there than Circe because of the first movie...

Hmm… I think you may be overstating the impact of an appearance in one movie. Especially a movie with a reception as mixed as the one Wonder Woman 1984 received. I speculate that most of the non-comic reading viewers who saw the sequel don’t even remember that Pascal’s character was named Max Lord.

Pascal got good reviews but I wouldn’t say he was the “Killmonger” of WW84.

[Primal Slayer]

I think if you ask someone who knows just the general WW "who is Giganta to you in the WW world?" they may go "....is it a villain?" but thats about it.

[Robanker]

I think if you ask someone who knows just the general WW "who is Giganta to you in the WW world?" they may go "....is it a villain?" but thats about it.

If they respond "a big bitch who wants money" then you marry them on the spot.

[I'm a Fish]

Hmm… I think you may be overstating the impact of an appearance in one movie. Especially a movie with a reception as mixed as the one Wonder Woman 1984 received. I speculate that most of the non-comic reading viewers who saw the sequel don’t even remember that Pascal’s character was named Max Lord.

Pascal got good reviews but I wouldn’t say he was the “Killmonger” of WW84.

Eh, he was one of the most talked about character in the movie. Even if general audience don’t remember him by name, they’ll remember him as “that guy Pascal played in that Wonder Woman movie”.

And mixed reviews doesn’t negate viewership or knowledge. In fact, it might even make something more memorable since people remember what makes them feel something (positive or negative)

[John Venus]

I've seen a lot of casuals post that scan of Diana snapping Lord's neck as proof of how WW is more 'bad ass' and how she does what needs to be done unlike Superman and Batman who are wussies for not murdering their opponents. DC's been beating on that 'Diana is willing to kill, here is Maxwell Lord for proof' drum for so long now that even most casuals are aware of it.

[John Venus]

I am not sure if that is enough, i have the feeling Cheetah is more known among the general public who don't reads comics than Brainiac, Zod or Bizzaro let alone Lex Luthor are way different calibers.

Brainiac headlined several events in the comics (Panic in the Sky, Superman 2k1, Convergence), he was also a major villain in Superman: The Animated Series, Smallville, Justice League Unlimited and Superman: Unbound and he's even shown himself to be a League tier villain a few times. Cheetah shows up but almost always as part of an ensemble and never the sole threat and even then writers vary on whether she is Diana's physical equal or just a feral henchwoman.

The live action Superman movie side can't imagine anybody besides Luthor and Zod but as far as every other media is concerned, Brainiac and Bizarro are in the Top 5 of Superman villains.

What do the general public even know about Cheetah?

[WonderLight789]

Brainiac headlined several events in the comics (Panic in the Sky, Superman 2k1, Convergence), he was also a major villain in Superman: The Animated Series, Smallville, Justice League Unlimited and Superman: Unbound and he's even shown himself to be a League tier villain a few times. Cheetah shows up but almost always as part of an ensemble and never the sole threat and even then writers vary on whether she is Diana's physical equal or just a feral henchwoman.

The live action Superman movie side can't imagine anybody besides Luthor and Zod but as far as every other media is concerned, Brainiac and Bizarro are in the Top 5 of Superman villains.

What do the general public even know about Cheetah?

Everything that they have heard about her in movies, games, TV shows etc.

[PopQuezy]

I've seen a lot of casuals post that scan of Diana snapping Lord's neck as proof of how WW is more 'bad ass' and how she does what needs to be done unlike Superman and Batman who are wussies for not murdering their opponents. DC's been beating on that 'Diana is willing to kill, here is Maxwell Lord for proof' drum for so long now that even most casuals are aware of it.

People are notorious for taking things out of context. Satirical movies like Blazing Saddles are taken out of context all the time. It's not the text's fault -movie, comic book, tv show, etc. - that years/decades later people choose to remove something from context to prove a point that is often wrong.

I don't have a problem with Diana killing. I do have a problem with Diana snapping someone's neck as that's such a brutal and merciless way to kill someone. But killing in defense of oneself or others isn't this horrific, monstrous act that people in comics act as it is. I don't find Superman or Batman more heroic because they don't kill and Diana is not less heroic. Unfortunately, some villains should be killed for the safety of the world and no one should mourn them once they are gone.

[John Venus]

I don't mind her killing. I think she would kill if the situation deemed it. I do have a problem with people thinking she's like the Punisher or that she's more bad ass when she's aggressive and bloodthirsty. WW was created because Marston thought love and compassion shouldn't be presented as weak traits.

[Primal Slayer]

People are notorious for taking things out of context. Satirical movies like Blazing Saddles are taken out of context all the time. It's not the text's fault -movie, comic book, tv show, etc. - that years/decades later people choose to remove something from context to prove a point that is often wrong.

I don't have a problem with Diana killing. I do have a problem with Diana snapping someone's neck as that's such a brutal and merciless way to kill someone. But killing in defense of oneself or others isn't this horrific, monstrous act that people in comics act as it is. I don't find Superman or Batman more heroic because they don't kill and Diana is not less heroic. Unfortunately, some villains should be killed for the safety of the world and no one should mourn them once they are gone.

How did you want her to kill Max Lord? He stated himself the only way to unleash Superman was to kill him (Max). Snapping his neck was a quick way to end his life.

[PopQuezy]

How did you want her to kill Max Lord? He stated himself the only way to unleash Superman was to kill him (Max). Snapping his neck was a quick way to end his life.

I'm not certain how I would want her to kill him, but in a way that is at least still heroic. Snapping someone's neck is not a heroic way to kill a person. In the Wonder Woman film, Diana kills a lot of people in battle, with a bow and arrow and a sword from memory. She also kills Ares via lightning. All these are in battle where the person at least has a fighting chance. Snapping someone's neck and slitting someone's throat are just not heroic ways to kill a person. Especially thinking of the context of Diana/Max, he's wrapped and subdued in the lasso, he's on his knees - a submissive position - and he's in no way a physical match or threat for Diana. While I understand the context, the visual image also makes it easy to take it out of context and portray Diana as a "by any means necessary" combatant.

[Vordan]

I've seen a lot of casuals post that scan of Diana snapping Lord's neck as proof of how WW is more 'bad ass' and how she does what needs to be done unlike Superman and Batman who are wussies for not murdering their opponents. DC's been beating on that 'Diana is willing to kill, here is Maxwell Lord for proof' drum for so long now that even most casuals are aware of it.

That and that panel from Johns JL where she says she does not have as many Rogues as Bats or Supes because she kills them.

[Primal Slayer]

I'm not certain how I would want her to kill him, but in a way that is at least still heroic. Snapping someone's neck is not a heroic way to kill a person. In the Wonder Woman film, Diana kills a lot of people in battle, with a bow and arrow and a sword from memory. She also kills Ares via lightning. All these are in battle where the person at least has a fighting chance. Snapping someone's neck and slitting someone's throat are just not heroic ways to kill a person. Especially thinking of the context of Diana/Max, he's wrapped and subdued in the lasso, he's on his knees - a submissive position - and he's in no way a physical match or threat for Diana. While I understand the context, the visual image also makes it easy to take it out of context and portray Diana as a "by any means necessary" combatant.

Stabbing people isnt really that much more heroic looking imo. But the entire point was that Diana was between a corner and hard place (or whatever that saying is). She subdued the villain, she had mind warped Superman bleeding out and the only person who can free Superman is Maxwell Lord. She cant force him and he is refusing to do so. She could slit his throat, choke him to death, smash his head in....none of those are really desirable.