Wonder Woman - General Discussion

[I'm a Fish]

How else is Superman free of his control?

Give Lord a lobotomy :P

[Primal Slayer]

A simple K.O. ought to the trick followed by a visit to a supervillain prison complex where powers are negated.

Like the one shown where Psycho (someone's whose shown far more impressive mind powers than Max has) was held when he was introduced in the very same Rucka run.

Not that hard.

She asked Lord how to stop this. The lasso made him tell the truth. No one knows if knocking him out frees someone from his influence. WW did what the lasso brought forth.

[Gaius]

She asked Lord how to stop this. The lasso made him tell the truth. No one knows if knocking him out frees someone from his influence. WW did what the lasso brought forth.

Yes, a writing technique such as using a smart character to advocate something dumb as a way deflect criticism of the dumb thing can't be dumb if the smart character thinks it's good.

[Guy_McNichts]

Two key things were Max insisted that even if they knocked him out or temporarily negated his powers, he would eventually get free and once he did, he'd six Superman on them again.
Also remember this was all in the aftermath if Identity Crisis's mind-wipes, and Diana was utterly appalled. Her position was if someone is so far-gone and evil, it's more merciful to kill them than lobotomize them.

Just for fun, I once thought about what would've happened had Diana chosen not to kill Max:

She & Superman take Max to the League Watchtower and keep him sedated until they can figure out what to do. Someone suggests mind-wiping him, but Batman & Diana vehemently refuse.
(again, Diana is utterly disgusted by the mind-wiping)

Arguments ensue between Clark and Bruce over the creation of Brother Eye. Diana tries to keep them focused and suggests that killing Max just might be the only option after all.

Suddenly, alarms go off. The Watchtower is under attack by OMACs. Remember, when Diana killed Max, Brother Eye went rogue, broadcast the murder to the world & sent an army of OMACs to attack Themyscira.
With Max alive, Brother Eye instead sends them to free him from the League's custody.

A battle ensues between the OMACs and whatever League members are available. They suffer losses, as some are still wounded from Superman being under Max's control and the fact they're outnumbered by the OMACs.

Suddenly, Superman starts attacking members of the League. As Diana watches in horror, she realizes why. During the fighting, an OMAC reached Max and revived him.

As soon as he wakes up, he asserts control over Superman again and turns him loose on the heroes.

Batman dies. J'onn dies. Others fall. With the heroes dropping, more OMACs coming, and too weakened from their previous fight to face Superman again, Diana makes the choice.

Before Clark can be turned on her, she strikes Max dead.

Superman is freed and he escapes the satellite with Diana, but the damage is done. Brother Eye broadcasts footage of him killing everyone to the world.

Superman's reputation and faith in himself is destroyed. The League is in shambles, half of them dead. Brother Eye and the OMACs are still on the loose just in time for the coming Crisis.

All hope now lies with a beaten, battered Wonder Woman...who wishes she'd killed Max Lord when she had the chance.

[Frontier]

Yes, a writing technique such as using a smart character to advocate something dumb as a way deflect criticism of the dumb thing can't be dumb if the smart character thinks it's good.

Isn't it more just the writer contriving a situation to end how the story needed it to go?

[Gaius]

^ Would love to see that Elseworld, Guy_McNights lol.

Isn't it more just the writer contriving a situation to end how the story needed it to go?

Yes, as I said. Sacrifice is not a good story on it's own or as part of Rucka's run as reading through the trades it comes completely out of nowhere with no buildup.

It has one o.k-ish Superman/Wonder Woman fight and a moment easily taken out of context for fans to post online so I'm not surprised so many backwards try to make it into a better story than it is.

[Primal Slayer]

Isn't it more just the writer contriving a situation to end how the story needed it to go?

Yes. Buffy did something similar with Glory/Ben. Giles knew if Glory lived they'd always be in danger so he kills her when she's in her weakend state since its something Buffy wouldn't do but it was something that needed to be done.

[SiegePerilous02]

Really curious now what villain Rucka would have used for his original story, and what they would have done to make Diana think she had no choice (it wouldn't have involved Superman). It seems like it was also going to be a human villain to contrast with the monstrous Medusa.

I don't think it was always going to be Max, which makes me wonder if it would have been a new character or Dr. Psycho

[Gaius]

Really curious now what villain Rucka would have used for his original story, and what they would have done to make Diana think she had no choice (it wouldn't have involved Superman). It seems like it was also going to be a human villain to contrast with the monstrous Medusa.

I don't think it was always going to be Max, which makes me wonder if it would have been a new character or Dr. Psycho

When I heard Rucka describe what the original plan was, I'm almost certain it would have been Jonah given it was revealed he was working with Checkmate later on and his original purpose of being an audience surrogate into Diana's embassy life was now fairly redundant.

Maybe other villains like Cale or Psycho would have been involved but actual person killed would have been Jonah is my guess.

[Primal Slayer]

Give me something like this but with the Wonder-fam/villains


I also needed more of these 2 on the same side for just a tiny bit

[Phoenixx9]

Give me something like this but with the Wonder-fam/villains


I also needed more of these 2 on the same side for just a tiny bit

Yeah, when was this from? Superwoman had her baby a while ago.

It was nice seeing them working together!

[Vordan]

Give me something like this but with the Wonder-fam/villains


I also needed more of these 2 on the same side for just a tiny bit

I’m hoping we get some awesome WW variant covers for issue 800.

Yeah, when was this from? Superwoman had her baby a while ago.

It was nice seeing them working together!

Darkseid War.

[Phoenixx9]

I’m hoping we get some awesome WW variant covers for issue 800.

Darkseid War.

Thanks!

I need to see more Superwoman in Wonder Woman books!

[Gaius]

WW variants/pinups are so boring most of the time. Ones for her 80th were particularly disappointing given how many of them were just some variant of the bullets/bracelets pose. Not the best indicator of the artists passion for WW. Travis Moore's was the best on the basis he actually did something that actually celebrated an era of her history.

This the standard they should be striving for.

[Agent Z]

So Diana slit a person's throat in front of a bunch of children in order to save said children? Hmm. What does that remind me of? Again, she has an infinitely elastic, unbreakable lasso of truth and possesses the speed of Hermes, the Greek deity of speed. You are telling me that she could not subdue the would-be child killer in the blink of an eye without shedding any blood? This goes back to so many writers' typically tone-deaf fixation on making Diana a "badass" chick that kills people for...reasons. Marston did not create Diana to be "the one Trinity member who will kill without remorse." It's not who she is. There are so many ways to make Diana a memorably fierce warrior and a truly badass superhero but unimaginative writers always go back to the same ole "have her kill without remorse" well. Oh well.

Diana being willing to kill when she needs to, when there is no other option, is fine. When it's on the level of Deimos, Max Lord, Medusa or Genocide.

I will never buy that a non-powered human criminal poses enough of a challenge for her that she needs to end their life. One of the most powerful beings on the planet acting like judge, jury and executioner towards people who are ants to her isn't inspiring, it's terrifying.

We don't know the full context of that incident. We know Waller was wrong/possibly lying when she said the guy was unarmed so who knows what else is being left out in that report.

I'm generally not a fan of Johns' depiction of Diana or the Justice League, but this situation is too ambiguous to judge.