Wonder Woman - General Discussion

[Perseus]

There are numerous ways to make a superhero film that doesn't follow the MCU style (or Waititi's style to be specific). I don't know why people are acting like this is a binary choice between stuff like Love & Thunder and "grimdark". Then again, people treat anything slightly more serious than a Saturday morning cartoon as grimdark, so I guess I can chalk it up to nuance being practically non-existent on the Internet.

100 to all of this.

[bardkeep]

There are numerous ways to make a superhero film that doesn't follow the MCU style (or Waititi's style to be specific). I don't know why people are acting like this is a binary choice between stuff like Love & Thunder and "grimdark". Then again, people treat anything slightly more serious than a Saturday morning cartoon as grimdark, so I guess I can chalk it up to nuance being practically non-existent on the Internet.

I thought the first Wonder Woman film nailed this. It was serious when it needed to be, but it was really earnest and had lots of humor and light character moments that felt totally natural (vs. the MCU films, which shoehorn in quips to keep anything from feeling too serious). It always baffles me when people compare its tone to the Snyderverse.

[Koriand'r]

I just watched Thor4, and not gonna lie: the whole notion that a film with whimsy and jokes somehow negates the stakes and the seriousness of the film's central plot is absolutely bonkers to me. Love and Thunder had a lot of funny moments and great sight gags, and yet at no point did I feel that the serious parts of the film were invalidated, or made less important. In fact, Love and Thunder proves once again that comic book fandom tends to look at everything through a very simplistic, rigidly black OR white lens. Goddess, I wish Wonder Woman 1984 had been 1/8 as strong as Love and Thunder (especially the fight choreography and special effects). And I will say it once again, Waititi would probably be a solid director to bring a Golden Age aesthetic to Themyscira in a film, instead of the usual one-note sword-and-sandals visuals we get. A film could have whimsy and silliness and still make audiences care about the characters (the MCU has made a hugely successful, critically acclaimed billion-dollar empire out of precisely that; when did the fandom start thinking that these two things are mutually exclusive?

After watching THOR4 I realized that all the online hatred the film got was because of how female-centric and gay positive it was (which is how a Wonder Woman film should be when you think about it).

I agree with all of this and like Love & Thunder just as much Ragnarak and way more than WW 1984 and with reservations I liked WW 1984.

[DochaDocha]

I just watched Thor4, and not gonna lie: the whole notion that a film with whimsy and jokes somehow negates the stakes and the seriousness of the film's central plot is absolutely bonkers to me. Love and Thunder had a lot of funny moments and great sight gags, and yet at no point did I feel that the serious parts of the film were invalidated, or made less important. In fact, Love and Thunder proves once again that comic book fandom tends to look at everything through a very simplistic, rigidly black OR white lens. Goddess, I wish Wonder Woman 1984 had been 1/8 as strong as Love and Thunder (especially the fight choreography and special effects). And I will say it once again, Waititi would probably be a solid director to bring a Golden Age aesthetic to Themyscira in a film, instead of the usual one-note sword-and-sandals visuals we get. A film could have whimsy and silliness and still make audiences care about the characters (the MCU has made a hugely successful, critically acclaimed billion-dollar empire out of precisely that; when did the fandom start thinking that these two things are mutually exclusive?

After watching THOR4 I realized that all the online hatred the film got was because of how female-centric and gay positive it was (which is how a Wonder Woman film should be when you think about it).

I also recently watched TLT. I think some of the hate it catches is unwarranted, but I otherwise would agree that it's a largely-forgettable MCU movie and I think it is kind of retrograde take on Thor's character after a lot of the character-building they did in Ragnarok, Infinity War (in particular), and even Endgame. There are a lot of unfortunate "Wait, what?" moments in that film that I think kind of lessened the experience. Overall, I recommend it to MCU fans, even though I don't have a lot of great things to say about it. I do, though, think to some degree it's hard to make Thor run the ringer of his three prior appearances and then go whimsy and silly, especially when he seems less sharp.

[Perseus]

Diana's funeral happened in this week's DCaesed. It was ok, I mean, I've complained about that comic enough already, people here kind of get that its bad. But I have to admit, Ares's appearance and the subsequent 'big reveal' about who is behind all the bull, its Erebus the primordial embodiment of darkness, husband to Nyx, was pretty interesting. Like yeah, green arrow being annoying and quippy kind of ruined the scene, insert marvel jokes at the worst time rant, but overall was pretty sweet. It has that scale, that stakes, and gravitas that's missing in WW comics these days. I feel like if this was written by anyone better than Tom, not a high bar I know, and actually had a care for Diana this would have been a decent elseworld. Like, I 100% believe Tom is obviously going to drop the ball on this and has some stupid superman/batman god scene to solve something that is clearly designed to be a part of Diana's mythos, yknow, 'subvert expectations' and all that by doing the exact thing that DC comics does all that time. I think with Tom, it's that saying that fast food can taste good every once in a blue moon. Not saying that as a whole it was good, but, that was ok, serviceable to me. This man clearly does not like Diana though. And I do hate this trope of heroes getting the weapons and armor of the gods cause its always used to show how great the heroes are and it often feels so undeserved at the moment.

[Gaius]

Diana's funeral happened in this week's DCaesed. It was ok, I mean, I've complained about that comic enough already, people here kind of get that its bad. But I have to admit, Ares's appearance and the subsequent 'big reveal' about who is behind all the bull, its Erebus the primordial embodiment of darkness, husband to Nyx, was pretty interesting. Like yeah, green arrow being annoying and quippy kind of ruined the scene, insert marvel jokes at the worst time rant, but overall was pretty sweet. It has that scale, that stakes, and gravitas that's missing in WW comics these days. I feel like if this was written by anyone better than Tom, not a high bar I know, and actually had a care for Diana this would have been a decent elseworld. Like, I 100% believe Tom is obviously going to drop the ball on this and has some stupid superman/batman god scene to solve something that is clearly designed to be a part of Diana's mythos, yknow, 'subvert expectations' and all that by doing the exact thing that DC comics does all that time. I think with Tom, it's that saying that fast food can taste good every once in a blue moon. Not saying that as a whole it was good, but, that was ok, serviceable to me. This man clearly does not like Diana though. And I do hate this trope of heroes getting the weapons and armor of the gods cause its always used to show how great the heroes are and it often feels so undeserved at the moment.

"Annoying and Quippy" is to GA what "breathing" is to everyone else, he can't really exist without it. Not a fan of him being on Themyscira if I'm honest but guess Taylor couldn't help himself with one of his pet characters.

Can only imagine how much pain it must have caused Taylor to write a WW scene without SuperMessiah and BatGod for her to speak of in reverend terms.

[Guy_McNichts]

I honestly completely forgot about this. I don't even care enough to search for scans. Just the idea of characters standing around and acting like Diana getting murdered with one punch & turned into a bloodthirsty monster was an act of heroic sacrifice...as written by Tom Taylor...makes me cringe.

Don't even pretend you respect Wonder Woman, Tom. That ship sailed a long time ago.


As for the rest...if I'm understanding it correctly...sounds like yet another example of something that is or should be Wonder Woman's domain being left to other heroes to resolve. Kind of like when a story involves mind control or possession and someone OTHER THAN Diana thinks to use the Lasso instead of her.
Ancient Greek gods have screwed the world? Boy, that sounds exactly like a job for Wonder Wo--OH, too late! She's dead. Womp womp.

In fact, didn't it turn out the Lasso is or would've been incredibly useful in combating the zombie plague, but it never once occurred to Diana even though the damn thing was at her side at all times?


Oh, Taylor. Useless man.

[Primal Slayer]

Even something somehwat revolving around Diana and Cassie doesnt have much play lol. But it was nice to see Ares and him put down Darkseid. Still think that Diana of all people were killed but it wouldnt be an Elseworlds if she didnt fall while Supes survived.

[Frontier]

"Annoying and Quippy" is to GA what "breathing" is to everyone else, he can't really exist without it. Not a fan of him being on Themyscira if I'm honest but guess Taylor couldn't help himself with one of his pet characters.

When written well GA has great quips.

[Gaius]

When written well GA has great quips.

[Frontier]

Don't underestimate Kin Shriner .

[Perseus]

Even something somehwat revolving around Diana and Cassie doesnt have much play lol. But it was nice to see Ares and him put down Darkseid. Still think that Diana of all people were killed but it wouldnt be an Elseworlds if she didnt fall while Supes survived.

Whatever do you mean? Cassie's role as Damian's girlfriend is an incredible part to the overall story.

[gwhh]

What comic issue is this from??

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-8294079

[Sebastianne]

What comic issue is this from??

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-8294079

JLA Heaven's Ladder.

[Gaius]

WW will be in one of the DC Christmas story specials by Stephanie Williams

Superman's there too unfortunately