Wonder Woman - General Discussion

[WonderScott]

They have Steve or Siggy lol. Olympian would've been a good add to her super-family on a more full-time basis.

Has powers, interacts with the gods, has a flying ELEPHANT, has been on the Island, Gay.

I need more Mysia in my life!

[HestiasHearth]

Nope, that's how he was rewritten in the recent decades, but it's definitely not what he was originally.

Writers did to him the same thing that was done to Steve Trevor in the 2009 movie. Suddenly he became a douchebag out of nowhere.

Whenever there's a scandily dressed man that isn't explicitly gay, they write him like Namor.

Same thing happened to B'wanna Beast in adaptations

Ok, now I am intrigued. You say that Vartox challenged gender norms. In what way? Just because of the way he dressed? I mean, technically, he does challenge gender norms simply by dressing the way he did, but I'd prefer that he challenged gender norms in the way he lived his life or in the way he identified (sexually and gender-identity wise) than just by merely dressing sexy.

[Alpha]

Ok, now I am intrigued. You say that Vartox challenged gender norms. In what way? Just because of the way he dressed? I mean, technically, he does challenge gender norms simply by dressing the way he did, but I'd prefer that he challenged gender norms in the way he lived his life or in the way he identified (sexually and gender-identity wise) than just by merely dressing sexy.

The biggest way he challenged gender norms was definitely the way he dressed yes. It's quite queer if you ask me. And I think it's really important for a male hero In Wonder Woman's world to visually defy gender norms, rather than dressing for more conservatively than she does.



Originally he was like a space knight, whose strength and powers came from his psionic spiritual energy, the power of belief and emotional intuition.

His first story was about how his wife was psychically connected to a woman from earth, and when that human woman was murdered, his wife died to inexplicably from their spiritual connection. So he came to earth to arrest the murderer and bring him to the justice of his home planet. Superman clashed with him over what planet should the murderer be judged in, and at the end they agreed to take him to space, where his punishment was to be aged decades, and then he was returned to earth to be judged by our judicial system too.

This had all the spiritual new age precognition, intuition, Astral projection stuff that Wonder Woman stories in space should have, is reflects the themes of Wonder Woman's soul searching and emotional reflection.

[Gaius]

more a random thought that I couldn't really think to put elsewhere and don't think it merits a full thread but "Power Woman/evil Wonder Woman"-types usually play up the dominatrix imagery in WW (which if you're generous is going back to WW's primal roots, but if you're blunt it's because most writers/artists are horny) when in actuality I think an "evil Wonder Woman" should be more along the lines of an old-school puritan/Margaret White-style preacher.


That is all.

[Frontier]

more a random thought that I couldn't really think to put elsewhere and don't think it merits a full thread but "Power Woman/evil Wonder Woman"-types usually play up the dominatrix imagery in WW (which if you're generous is going back to WW's primal roots, but if you're blunt it's because most writers/artists are horny) when in actuality I think an "evil Wonder Woman" should be more along the lines of an old-school puritan/Margaret White-style preacher.


That is all.

This just reminds me of an interesting fact (well, interesting to me) how Wonder Woman's counterpart on the Crime Syndicate is Superwoman but she isn't actually always the Earth-3 version of Diana.

In Crisis on Two Earths she was Earth-3 Mary Marvel.

In a few different continuities she's Earth-3 Lois Lane.

Infinite Frontier she's Earth-3 Donna.

Though Earth-3 Diana was in Crisis on Two Earths as Olympia:

[marhawkman]

more a random thought that I couldn't really think to put elsewhere and don't think it merits a full thread but "Power Woman/evil Wonder Woman"-types usually play up the dominatrix imagery in WW (which if you're generous is going back to WW's primal roots, but if you're blunt it's because most writers/artists are horny) when in actuality I think an "evil Wonder Woman" should be more along the lines of an old-school puritan/Margaret White-style preacher.


That is all.

I've seen that... it was a Witchblade villain. Very... weird... very ... McFarlane....

[Agent Z]

You've never read the 70s version of Vartox have you?

I have. Nothing he did challenged gender norms. And no, wearing a skimpy outfit doesn't count. By that logic, Conan and many WWE stars challenge gender norms as well.

Vartox's debut story is a classic case of "women in refrigerators". He was as gender typical as you could get

[Agent Z]

edited post.

[Guy_McNichts]

Dan Mora Wonder Woman from what is probably an upcoming Batman/Superman: World's Finest issue:

Nice art, but.....
Can someone let Waid know he can always just NOT write Wonder Woman? It wouldn't be a big loss.

more a random thought that I couldn't really think to put elsewhere and don't think it merits a full thread but "Power Woman/evil Wonder Woman"-types usually play up the dominatrix imagery in WW (which if you're generous is going back to WW's primal roots, but if you're blunt it's because most writers/artists are horny) when in actuality I think an "evil Wonder Woman" should be more along the lines of an old-school puritan/Margaret White-style preacher.

I actually had a similar idea in the Controversial Opinion thread:

Relating to the previous talk about Diana being a sex-positive character...

Superwoman--as Wonder Woman's Earth-3 opposite--should be an uptight prude who condemns others for expressing themselves or even feeling joy rather than the typically slutty femme fatale she's usually imagined as.

Her design should reflect this...wearing the supervillain equivalent of an unflattering school marm gown instead of a skin-tight dominatrix attire. Nothing seductive or alluring--just a nasty, judgemental scowl.

She can keep the barbed lasso, suiting her as someone who flogs those who disobey.

Honestly, I think a puritanical character would make a good Wonder Woman villain, whether they be an "opposite" like Superwoman or just a new character altogether. Female or male.

[Alpha]

And no, wearing a skimpy outfit doesn't count. By that logic, Conan and many WWE stars challenge gender norms as well.

Are you not seeing the boots that go past the knees? Never seen Conan wear that. What wrestler wears that?
Even the jacket he wears is such a queer emblem if you ask me. This is what a male Wonder Hero should wear, not the all covered up norm fitting stuff we're always presented.

Vartox's debut story is a classic case of "women in refrigerators". He was as gender typical as you could get

I don't think you know what "women in refrigerators" is about. It's not about a man loving someone that died.

All of his power comes from psychicological and emotional attunement, and only appear to be physical but aren't. That's everything Golden Age Wonder Woman was about, how we need to work on our minds and souls, so we can be stronger.

[Alpha]

Really to me the question is, what kind of island did Earth 3 Diana come from?

If our Diana came from Paradise Island, filled with love, self love, and empowerment

Then Earth 3 Diana's "Demon Island" could be one of two things:

A place so repressed by itself in the puritanical way you suggest (which is definitely interesting)

Or a place where people are degraded, exploited, where everyone is disgusted by themselves and others. Not repression, but exploitation.

[Frontier]

Nice art, but.....
Can someone let Waid know he can always just NOT write Wonder Woman? It wouldn't be a big loss.

To be honest I was more distracted by the bandages and the huge bracelets.

[Primal Slayer]

To be honest I was more distracted by the bandages and the huge bracelets.

Same. Kind of weird to use her classic costume but have the bandages? They dont do much anesthetically

[Guy_McNichts]

What if the Earth-3 Hippolyta is the puritanical one, and Superwoman is the rebellious, unwanted daughter who acts like an exploitative harlot?

Considering how underdeveloped Wonder Woman's side of the Anti-Earth is, there's a lot they could do with it and those characters. Maybe Superwoman, rather than winning her Contest and earning the right to be Champion, outright cheated or actually lost but stole their stuff and ran off anyway?

Or, if not a uber-strict puritan, what if Anti-Hippolyta is a nasty, venomous battle-axe? Suppose, unlike Diana and the real Hippolyta, who love each other unconditionally, Anti-Lyta despises Superwoman and constantly abuses her emotionally and verbally?


And what about the Earth-3 Artemis or Nubia? Or how about an Earth-3 Circe who's actually heroic?


Just about anything would be more interesting than Superwoman being a one-note, slutty Lois Lane or Mary Marvel or any of the half-baked ideas writers have tried over the years.

[Gaius]

This just reminds me of an interesting fact (well, interesting to me) how Wonder Woman's counterpart on the Crime Syndicate is Superwoman but she isn't actually always the Earth-3 version of Diana.

In Crisis on Two Earths she was Earth-3 Mary Marvel.

In a few different continuities she's Earth-3 Lois Lane.

Infinite Frontier she's Earth-3 Donna.

Though Earth-3 Diana was in Crisis on Two Earths as Olympia:

and stuff like is why I can't care about Power Womn, or Earth-3 in general. Just so underbaked.

What if the Earth-3 Hippolyta is the puritanical one, and Superwoman is the rebellious, unwanted daughter who acts like an exploitative harlot?

Considering how underdeveloped Wonder Woman's side of the Anti-Earth is, there's a lot they could do with it and those characters. Maybe Superwoman, rather than winning her Contest and earning the right to be Champion, outright cheated or actually lost but stole their stuff and ran off anyway?

Or, if not a uber-strict puritan, what if Anti-Hippolyta is a nasty, venomous battle-axe? Suppose, unlike Diana and the real Hippolyta, who love each other unconditionally, Anti-Lyta despises Superwoman and constantly abuses her emotionally and verbally?


And what about the Earth-3 Artemis or Nubia? Or how about an Earth-3 Circe who's actually heroic?


Just about anything would be more interesting than Superwoman being a one-note, slutty Lois Lane or Mary Marvel or any of the half-baked ideas writers have tried over the years.

Artemis would probably be some sycophantic Starscream-type. Wants to betray PW and takeover the mantle but too much of coward to do it until a moment of weakness on Earth-3 Diana's part.