DC vs Marvel: Who won the 80's?

[tib2d2]

I love hearing about comics from decades ago, and how each of the major houses handled their stories and characters. I feel decades are great for defining times in comics.

So between DC and Marvel, who "won the 1980s"? Who put out the best material, characters, stories in the 80s?

This one I feel is trickier than the 1970s question. You have Miller's Daredevil run, Stern's run on Spidey, Intro of Venom, Secret Wars, Punisher's solo series, Claremont's X-men run, Byrne on FF.

BUT, you also have Crisis on Infinite Earths, Miller's Batman year one, Byrne's Superman, All Star Squadron, Perez on WW, Emerald Dawn, Wally West as Flash, Justice League International

Who do you think won the decade?

[Powerboy]

I think the stuff DC did in the 1980s outstrips Marvel, especially in popular knowledge.

The Crisis vastly outdoes Secret Wars which really changed nothing of significance. Things like Watchmen, the Dark Knight Returns and the Killing Joke are far better known than the big Marvel stuff of the era, especially those first two.

[Scott Taylor]

DC also did Watchmen. I give it to them for the decade, mainly because of the longevity and influence of all the stories they produced. Its funny, both companies kind of staggered into the 1990s. Marvel because they had all this leftover Shooter baggage to deal with and DC because their post-Crisis good will had mostly worn off and titles were getting canceled right and left.

[Kirby101]

1970s - Marvel

1980s - DC

[BeastieRunner]

1970s - Marvel

1980s - DC

90s Everyone!

2000s nobody!

That is spot on, jokes aside.

[shooshoomanjoe]

I'll go with Marvel because of Jim Shooter's policy of naming the characters in story and having a tight continuity.

[The no face guy]

Sales wise Marvel, the X- Men pretty much dominated everything until the late 90's.

[DrNewGod]

Nah.

They each had strengths in some areas, and weaknesses in others in that decade. Some properties, like the Titans, both rose and fell in the era. Some, like FF, started the era strong and then declined.

[Bruce Wayne]

90s Everyone!

2000s nobody!

I would argue the Quesada Era far outdid DC under Levitz/Didio. Not to mention 2008 is also the beginning of the MCU. DC's trajectory post-Jeanette Kahn can best be described as a trainwreck in slow motion.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

In terms of monthly ongoing:

Marvel > DC.
-- Stern on Spider-Man, Stern on The Avengers.
-- Simonson on Thor.
-- Miller on Daredevil.
-- Claremont on X-Men and The New Mutants.
-- Byrne on Fantastic Four.
-- Tom Defalco on Spider-Man.
-- David Michelinie on Spider-Man.

So Marvel's ongoing was quite strong in the 80s as opposed to the general ongoings of DC in that period.

In terms of the peripheral stuff, the non-ongoing stuff and general readership stuff. DC did better, by getting Alan Moore to DC but then they drove Alan Moore away for good. Karen Berger at Vertigo did amazing stuff and started an entire new readership expanding outside mainstream superhero titles in a big way.

As for a lot of people who are fans of COIE, sorry folks but SECRET WARS 1984 is just way better.

[ed2962]

DC. Marvel started strong in the first half of the decade with X-Men, John Byrne FF, and Miller's DD. But in the second half of the 80's DC were able to reinvent themselves and material like Swamp Thing, Watchmen and Dark Knight Returns not only pushed the medium forward but continues to sell well.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

DC. Marvel started strong in the first half of the decade with X-Men, John Byrne FF, and Miller's DD. But in the second half of the 80's DC were able to reinvent themselves and material like Swamp Thing, Watchmen and Dark Knight Returns not only pushed the medium forward but continues to sell well.

Let’s not exaggerate. Watchmen sold well for an arty miniseries but it wasn’t a blockbuster. Byrne’s the man of steel outsold it heavily as did Marvel ongoings. Swamp Thing also did very well for a c list title but it never made it to the top. The dark knight returns okay that was quite successful

[ed2962]

Let’s not exaggerate. Watchmen sold well for an arty miniseries but it wasn’t a blockbuster. Byrne’s the man of steel outsold it heavily as did Marvel ongoings. Swamp Thing also did very well for a c list title but it never made it to the top. The dark knight returns okay that was quite successful

I didn't mean to suggest that the individual issues of ST and WM were doing the same numbers as X-Men, but they were highly influential and DC continues make money from them. These are comics ( along with DKR) that actually helped change the industry.

I guess if we wanted to talk sales though New Teen Titans and Legion of Superheroes did very well in the early 80's. However, they were DC's only hits at that time.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I didn't mean to suggest that the individual issues of ST and WM were doing the same numbers as X-Men, but they were highly influential and DC continues make money from them. These are comics ( along with DKR) that actually helped change the industry.

"Changing the industry" is a big claim. I don't know if Swamp Thing, Watchmen, TDKR did that. The aesthetic importance and achievement of the work doesn't often correlate to the actual influence of those cultural products and/or transformation of the industry. In practical terms, Swamp Thing was important for laying the foundations of DC Vertigo and bringing in adult audience titles to the mainstreams via Graphic novels and albums. Neil Gaiman's The Sandman, Ennis' Preacher, Morrison's Doom Patrol are all derived from that.

But did that actually change the industry? It added to what was already there but it didn't significantly change the industry not in the way Moore hoped. WATCHMEN was a success but not as successful as people assume. People make out like Watchmen in the 80s was a household name even among comics' readers but it wasn't. Watchmen's success was pretty good, and remarkable but certainly not enough to justify (even from a business perspective) the IP Theft of Moore/Gibbons by DC.

The marriage between Spider-Man and Mary Jane Watson was a bigger event among the general public in the '80s than Watchmen was, or Swamp Thing was, or even TDKR was. The Death of Superman in the 90s that was way bigger than WATCHMEN. MacFarlane and Jim Lee and others founding Image Comics, that was a big industry altering move. Nothing Alan Moore and others did ever measured to that.

I guess if we wanted to talk sales though New Teen Titans and Legion of Superheroes did very well in the early 80's. However, they were DC's only hits at that time.

Sales-wise, DC lost to Marvel in the 80s. In terms of quality, Marvel's ongoing was better than DC's in general, even in the late 80s. Frank Miller wrote Daredevil for Marvel and then went to DC but then he came back to Marvel in the late 80s and did BORN AGAIN, which is his best work in superhero stories.

DC beat out Marvel in terms of Graphic Novel and alternative titles. Marvel's one attempt at doing that i.e. New Universe was a bomb, creatively and financially. Marvel did put out some decent stuff and valuable stuff like publishing Akira and Moebius in translation for the American market, as well as Pat Mills and Kevin O'Neill's MARSHAL LAW via its Epic Imprint.

[ed2962]

"Changing the industry" is a big claim. I don't know if Swamp Thing, Watchmen, TDKR did that. The aesthetic importance and achievement of the work doesn't often correlate to the actual influence of those cultural products and/or transformation of the industry. In practical terms, Swamp Thing was important for laying the foundations of DC Vertigo and bringing in adult audience titles to the mainstreams via Graphic novels and albums. Neil Gaiman's The Sandman, Ennis' Preacher, Morrison's Doom Patrol are all derived from that.

But did that actually change the industry? It added to what was already there but it didn't significantly change the industry not in the way Moore hoped. WATCHMEN was a success but not as successful as people assume. People make out like Watchmen in the 80s was a household name even among comics' readers but it wasn't. Watchmen's success was pretty good, and remarkable but certainly not enough to justify (even from a business perspective) the IP Theft of Moore/Gibbons by DC.

The marriage between Spider-Man and Mary Jane Watson was a bigger event among the general public in the '80s than Watchmen was, or Swamp Thing was, or even TDKR was. The Death of Superman in the 90s that was way bigger than WATCHMEN. MacFarlane and Jim Lee and others founding Image Comics, that was a big industry altering move. Nothing Alan Moore and others did ever measured to that.



Sales-wise, DC lost to Marvel in the 80s. In terms of quality, Marvel's ongoing was better than DC's in general, even in the late 80s. Frank Miller wrote Daredevil for Marvel and then went to DC but then he came back to Marvel in the late 80s and did BORN AGAIN, which is his best work in superhero stories.

DC beat out Marvel in terms of Graphic Novel and alternative titles. Marvel's one attempt at doing that i.e. New Universe was a bomb, creatively and financially. Marvel did put out some decent stuff and valuable stuff like publishing Akira and Moebius in translation for the American market, as well as Pat Mills and Kevin O'Neill's MARSHAL LAW via its Epic Imprint.

See, I'd argue that broadening the formats, the approach to certain content, and audience were in themselves changes in the industry.